Author Topic: possible abc rules violation question (Read 1559 times)

thfonz98 · « **on:** October 12, 2004, 06:30:16 PM »

i have a bowler in one of my leagues who decided he was going to bowl left handed all night(says his right arm/wrist whatever hurt w/o doctor's note) this week on his own and have it count towards the league(not pacer)

i had a team member file a protest to the president of the league(just to get the possible violation in writing), i am vice pres. btw

question is:
if we have a board vote(captains and officers) does there have to be majority or 100% since the league has already started for this person to be allowed to do this.

i was also thinking of going to the local association office and ask them for their interpetation of the rules

obviously if this person is allowed to continue to bowl left handed he will need a seperate avg. or it would be the most blatent form of sandbagging.

Added on edit: he also said he was subbing for himself.
--------------------
Officially not a moderator

Edited on 10/13/2004 2:25 AM

thfonz98 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 13, 2004, 03:17:59 AM »

nevermind:
Rule 118d. If because of injury or disability a bowler finds it necessary to change delivery from
right to left-handed or vice versa, the leagueâ€™s board of directors, by majority vote, may permit the
bowler to change delivery. If approval is obtained, the bowler must establish a new average. A
bowler may also obtain permission to alternate delivery, due to injury or disability, in accordance
with the provisions of Rule 4c.
--------------------
Officially not a moderator

charlest · « **Reply #2 on:** October 13, 2004, 08:04:48 AM »

fonzie,

this is quite explicit in the rules. The basic intepretation is that if a bowler uses his other hand, it is equivalent to a new person bowling. He needs a new sanction card, indicating which "other" hand he used. It won't and CANNOT count towards his present average.

Since this is explicit in the ABC rules, you cannot, as far as I know, pass a league rule allowing his bowling with the other hand to count towards his current average. You can modify rules, you can pass rules not in the ABC rule book, but you cannot go completely against the ABC rules, by allowing something that the ABC forbids. NOTE that it does not forbid his using another hand; it just states how this will be used.

--------------------
"We get old too fast, and too late, smart."

da Shiv · « **Reply #3 on:** October 13, 2004, 09:48:54 AM »

I was in a league where this happened. A right handed bowler suffered an injury to his bowling arm (not at bowling) and wanted to continue to bowl in the league using his other arm. The officers checked the rules and checked with the local association and he was allowed to switch. I don't recall that the league board of directors voted to approve the switch, but I suppose we did. The league rule for establishing average was that if a book average existed in any ABC association, that average was to be used for purposes of handicap for the first 9 games bowled in the league, then the new average went into effect. If no average existed--which was the case for this guy since he had never bowled left-handed before--the league bylaws had a blind average which was to be used for 9 games. This is what was done. The blind average is set somewhat artificially high in case the person who supposedly doesn't have an average is somehow hiding a real average. This guy therefore kind of hurt his team's handicap for 9 games, but after that it was no problem.

He was listed on the weekly sheet twice--once with an "L" and once with an "R" just in case he decided he was ready to go back to his right hand.

I don't recall how his listing looked in the local yearbook.

Shiv
--------------------
Listening to the monotonous staccato of rain on my desk top

Pizzaguy · « **Reply #4 on:** October 13, 2004, 11:57:42 AM »

Also. to truly comply with the rule, he has to resanction as a left handed bowler.

--------------------
PIZZAGUY

Making the world safe for tweeners

thfonz98 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 13, 2004, 12:12:14 PM »

got it, ill leave this topic open for any other opinions but...ive got the idea now.

btw i hate my board in this league,they let anything happen and then b**** at the end of the season about things...isnt this why we have subs/blinds...

--------------------
Officially not a moderator

thfonz98 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 13, 2004, 12:29:04 PM »

New question: since there was no board vote(according to the rule further up on this page) previous to him bowling last night(just the sec. somewhat saying it was ok), do his scores count for the night or does he have to take a zero?

--------------------
Officially not a moderator

thfonz98 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 13, 2004, 02:45:33 PM »

quote:
Why does a board of directors have to be involved? There are ambidextrous people around.

they usually bowl different leagues with different hands.....this person has already started this league as a right hander...

our local coach used to do this...had different cards for both his hands...says he cant do this anymore though..

so rules have changed
--------------------
Officially not a moderator

Tex · « **Reply #8 on:** October 13, 2004, 11:13:04 PM »

There are a couple of questions listed here and the rule is printed in an early answer.
One misconception listed is about sanction. The bowler is sanctioned, not his hand. The bowler sanctions once per year and how many hands he uses has nothing to do with that. You fill out a card for each league, but note on the card what league you paid in.
It would be my opinion that if the bowler switched without league board approval he would get a zero score or the team could be required to forfiet since they allowed him to violate the ABC rules, but the results would be the same.
A bowler can not just switch back and forth. You can due to injury change with approval, but must recieve approval from the board to switch back after the injury has healed. Many times in recent years rule changes to allow changing whenever the bowler wishes has been brought before the national delegates and has always been denied. I have voted at several of these and the general feeling had to do with consistency and everyone on the same playing field. Most bowlers can only bowl with one hand, thus we all will.
On the subject of average. The book does not list average by hand. It shows averages based on high to low. Most tournaments and some leagues require the use of highest book. If you have a higher left handed average and choose to bowl right handed in a tournament, you will still have to bowl off your left handed average. I have been faced with enforcing this on a couple occasions.
My league has faced the injury situation several times. We conducted the vote, always allowed the change and let the bowler set a new average. We could have been difficult and made the bowler use his entering league average just as he did earlier in the year, but we choose to be flexible. We did track as a seperate bowler with the (L) and (R) next to his name. Months or weeks later the injury healed and we permitted the switch back and renew the original average, which was always the higher of the two. I am a pretty strict on rules, but sometimes reason can rule and save a lot of hard feelings. That said in the case of someone changing on his own, I revert to forfiet as the preferred solution. You can not allow one to do this and then try to enforce the next violation by the book.

Author Topic: possible abc rules violation question (Read 1559 times)

thfonz98

possible abc rules violation question

thfonz98

Re: possible abc rules violation question

charlest

Re: possible abc rules violation question

da Shiv

Re: possible abc rules violation question

Pizzaguy

Re: possible abc rules violation question

thfonz98

Re: possible abc rules violation question

thfonz98

Re: possible abc rules violation question

thfonz98

Re: possible abc rules violation question

Tex

Re: possible abc rules violation question