Author Topic: Factory 2nd's (Read 5236 times)

Good Times Good Times · « **on:** December 29, 2011, 03:17:46 AM »

So I picked up a couple new pieces as I got a gift card to my pro shop for Christmas. Got a Massive Damage and Slingshot. Very good deal on both pieces as both were factory 2nd's, both had good specs. The Slingshot has an obvious label error on the "B" which is clearly why it is a 2nd, but the Massive Damage looks perfect and may even look the best of any piece i've ever owned!

My question is:

What are the COLOR standards manufacturers put on a ball for it to be defined as a 1st or 2nd quality?

GetOffMe10Pin

"Sometimes people call me an idealist. Well that is the way I know I am an American."
- Woodrow Wilson

charlest · « **Reply #1 on:** December 29, 2011, 12:59:42 PM »

The standards must vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. I've some "first quality"balls that made me ask to myself, "How low or bad are their quality standards"? "How did this ball ever pass inspection?"

I've also bought about 4 or 5 Visionary balls marked "blem" around the CG. Visionary leaves no doubt about what they think are bad balls. But I've looked at them and I've had people who have been in the business for many years look at them and none of can see even the slightest mark that might be the reason for marking them as blems.

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

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scotts33 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 29, 2011, 01:31:01 PM »

The standards must vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. I've some "first quality"balls that made me ask to myself, "How low or bad are their quality standards"? "How did this ball ever pass inspection?"

Agreed. Just purchased a ball with 1.25 oz TW unbeknownst to me before shipping that limited choices of layout which led to sub par performance because of this fact. I'd call that ball a semi-blem and priced accordingly or at least the mfg. should have let my pro shop operator know that this condition existed with the ball before shipping. I know he requested otherwise. I won't be going back to that manufacturer again because of this situation.

I've also bought about 4 or 5 Visionary balls marked "blem" around the CG. Visionary leaves no doubt about what they think are bad balls. But I've looked at them and I've had people who have been in the business for many years look at them and none of can see even the slightest mark that might be the reason for marking them as blems.

Exactly I have many VBP blems and they are all great in pin distance and TW and I see nothing wrong with covers.

charlest wrote on 12/29/2011 1:59 PM: The standards must vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. I've some "first quality"balls that made me ask to myself, "How low or bad are their quality standards"? "How did this ball ever pass inspection?"

I've also bought about 4 or 5 Visionary balls marked "blem" around the CG. Visionary leaves no doubt about what they think are bad balls. But I've looked at them and I've had people who have been in the business for many years look at them and none of can see even the slightest mark that might be the reason for marking them as blems.

"None are so blind as those who will not see."
BowlingChat.net

Scott

JohnP · « **Reply #3 on:** December 29, 2011, 02:18:23 PM »

"Agreed. Just purchased a ball with 1.25 oz TW unbeknownst to me before shipping that limited choices of layout which led to sub par performance because of this fact. I'd call that ball a semi-blem and priced accordingly or at least the mfg. should have let my pro shop operator know that this condition existed with the ball before shipping. I know he requested otherwise. I won't be going back to that manufacturer again because of this situation."

Don't blame the manufacturer. In all likelyhood your pro shop ordered the ball from a distributor, the specs were on the box. If the distributor didn't meet your driller's spec request the ball should have been sent back for replacement. If the pro shop didn't provide any specs, well that's how distributors get rid of balls no one else wants. If you ordered the ball from the internet and didn't provide specs, well . . . -- JohnP

luckyxxx · « **Reply #4 on:** December 29, 2011, 11:23:54 PM »

JohnP wrote on 12/29/2011 3:18 PM:
"Agreed. Just purchased a ball with 1.25 oz TW unbeknownst to me before shipping that limited choices of layout which led to sub par performance because of this fact. I'd call that ball a semi-blem and priced accordingly or at least the mfg. should have let my pro shop operator know that this condition existed with the ball before shipping. I know he requested otherwise. I won't be going back to that manufacturer again because of this situation."

Don't blame the manufacturer. In all likelyhood your pro shop ordered the ball from a distributor, the specs were on the box. If the distributor didn't meet your driller's spec request the ball should have been sent back for replacement. If the pro shop didn't provide any specs, well that's how distributors get rid of balls no one else wants. If you ordered the ball from the internet and didn't provide specs, well . . . -- JohnP

I got a ball last week that was ordered directly from Ebonite International. The requested specs were 15.2-15.3 (they sent 15.5) top 2.5-2.75 (sent 3.0) and pin 3-4" (got 1-2" that barely measured over 1.5") and the very best part the MB was mismarked close to an inch to high and almost 2 inches left of the real MB location (spun on determinator). As I said this ball came directly from Ebo, is it alright to blame them?

Russell · « **Reply #5 on:** December 29, 2011, 11:32:38 PM »

Just think about what you are saying there.....pro shops (mine included) order many balls each week. It would be rather redundant to put "pin 3+" on every single one. I've said it before, low or high top weight do not hinder a skilled ball driller.

JohnP wrote on 12/29/2011 3:18 PM:
"Agreed. Just purchased a ball with 1.25 oz TW unbeknownst to me before shipping that limited choices of layout which led to sub par performance because of this fact. I'd call that ball a semi-blem and priced accordingly or at least the mfg. should have let my pro shop operator know that this condition existed with the ball before shipping. I know he requested otherwise. I won't be going back to that manufacturer again because of this situation."

Don't blame the manufacturer. In all likelyhood your pro shop ordered the ball from a distributor, the specs were on the box. If the distributor didn't meet your driller's spec request the ball should have been sent back for replacement. If the pro shop didn't provide any specs, well that's how distributors get rid of balls no one else wants. If you ordered the ball from the internet and didn't provide specs, well . . . -- JohnP

Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

JohnP · « **Reply #6 on:** December 30, 2011, 10:46:07 AM »

Lucky -- In this case I'd call your Ebonite representative and tell him you've got a ball he needs to come by and pick up for replacement.

Russell -- I've given our distributor a standard spec for reactive resin balls, 3 - 4" pin out and 2.5 - 3.5 oz top weight for use unless I specify otherwise. They know they'll be paying for return shipping if they don't meet the specs unless they call and get permission to ship.

By the way, the spec doesn't mean I can't drill the ball satisfactorily unless the spec is met. It means I should have the right to get a ball that makes it simpler. -- JohnP

Edited by JohnP on 12/30/2011 at 11:48 AM

scotts33 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 30, 2011, 11:00:18 AM »

In correct John it came directly from 900G to my pro shop operator. We took a chance and should not have done so and you are correct it should have been sent back. In the future I will. That being said I will stay away from that particular company in the future. My pro shop operator requested a 3" pin and 3 oz TW. We did not get what we requested. Lesson learned the hard way.

JohnP wrote on 12/29/2011 3:18 PM:"Agreed. Just purchased a ball with 1.25 oz TW unbeknownst to me before shipping that limited choices of layout which led to sub par performance because of this fact. I'd call that ball a semi-blem and priced accordingly or at least the mfg. should have let my pro shop operator know that this condition existed with the ball before shipping. I know he requested otherwise. I won't be going back to that manufacturer again because of this situation."

Don't blame the manufacturer. In all likelyhood your pro shop ordered the ball from a distributor, the specs were on the box. If the distributor didn't meet your driller's spec request the ball should have been sent back for replacement. If the pro shop didn't provide any specs, well that's how distributors get rid of balls no one else wants. If you ordered the ball from the internet and didn't provide specs, well . . . -- JohnP

scotts33 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 30, 2011, 11:03:18 AM »

It does when you want to put a longer pin to Pap distance and the amount of TW does NOT allow you to drill andx hole on the gradient line to change drilling angles. My pro shop operator is one the best in the USA and has tools like a DeTerminator which I find most pro shops do not even offer.

Russell wrote on 12/30/2011 0:32 AM:Just think about what you are saying there.....pro shops (mine included) order many balls each week. It would be rather redundant to put "pin 3+" on every single one. I've said it before, low or high top weight do not hinder a skilled ball driller.

JohnP wrote on 12/29/2011 3:18 PM:
"Agreed. Just purchased a ball with 1.25 oz TW unbeknownst to me before shipping that limited choices of layout which led to sub par performance because of this fact. I'd call that ball a semi-blem and priced accordingly or at least the mfg. should have let my pro shop operator know that this condition existed with the ball before shipping. I know he requested otherwise. I won't be going back to that manufacturer again because of this situation."

Don't blame the manufacturer. In all likelyhood your pro shop ordered the ball from a distributor, the specs were on the box. If the distributor didn't meet your driller's spec request the ball should have been sent back for replacement. If the pro shop didn't provide any specs, well that's how distributors get rid of balls no one else wants. If you ordered the ball from the internet and didn't provide specs, well . . . -- JohnP

Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

Scott

Balldoctor · « **Reply #9 on:** December 30, 2011, 11:55:11 AM »

Lucky, just curious, what were the circumstances that you ordered directly from Ebonite?

Remember, ALL BOWLING IS LOCAL!

Good Times Good Times · « **Reply #10 on:** December 30, 2011, 12:51:46 PM »

Brunsnick,

Any idea what the COLOR requirements are for 1st quality pieces?

GetOffMe10Pin

"Sometimes people call me an idealist. Well that is the way I know I am an American."
- Woodrow Wilson

MI 2 AZ · « **Reply #11 on:** December 30, 2011, 04:07:22 PM »

As to color blems, the only ones I can remember were for two cases.

One was for phasing, where the ball had a lot of white areas that shouldn't have been there. The ball was supposed to have been a solid blue and ended up with a mixture of white in it.

The second was a ball that was supposed to have been a mixture of two or three colors swirled together, but ended up with all of the black in one half of the ball. The other half of the ball was mainly red.

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RyanRPS · « **Reply #12 on:** December 31, 2011, 01:31:56 PM »

Ive gota say... some bowlers put WAY to much into getting exact specs... if your driller can not get a ball with a 2.5" pin to work when you wanted a 2.25" or 2.75" pin, they should not be drilling balls.

Additionally, a little pet peev of mine... a 15.2 ball means a just over a 15lb 3oz ball :-P... there are 16 ounces in a pound, and .2 of a pound is 3.2 ounces

On a general note.. manufacturers will have their own "in spec" guidelines which they regard as 1sts, and outside this, they will be called seconds or blems. With our gear, blems are if the CG is more then 2.25" from the Pin-MB line, and Seconds are any ball that has bad colour mix, more than 2 repair marks, or extreme short or long pin. If you have a decent driller, they are a great way to save a bit of money as they will be able, except in extreme circumstances, to put pretty much any drilling on them..

Ryan

Ryan Press - Seismic Staff Member

www.seismicbowling.com

Mbosco · « **Reply #13 on:** January 29, 2012, 08:54:54 AM »

It has been my experience that the big ball companies (900Global, Storm, Brunswick, and Ebonite Int) have lower standards of quality and much lower inspection standards than smaller companies do. That's one reason I bowl with Visionary, because I know they check every ball instead of one in every 500 or so, and their standards are TOUGH. What's the line for a coloration blem for the big B, though? No idea.

sigmaphi9 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 29, 2012, 07:45:54 PM »

1/4" pin difference, not a big deal. If I order 3-4" and get 2", it is a big deal. I won't take it, regardless how "skilled" the driller is.

Ive gota say... some bowlers put WAY to much into getting exact specs... if your driller can not get a ball with a 2.5" pin to work when you wanted a 2.25" or 2.75" pin, they should not be drilling balls.

Author Topic: Factory 2nd's (Read 5236 times)

Good Times Good Times

Factory 2nd's

charlest

Re: Factory 2nd's

scotts33

Re: Factory 2nd's

JohnP

Re: Factory 2nd's

luckyxxx

Re: Factory 2nd's

Russell

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JohnP

Re: Factory 2nd's

scotts33

Re: Factory 2nd's

scotts33

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Balldoctor

Re: Factory 2nd's

Good Times Good Times

Re: Factory 2nd's

MI 2 AZ

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RyanRPS

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Mbosco

Re: Factory 2nd's

sigmaphi9

Re: Factory 2nd's