Post by: Next Level PS on July 14, 2004, 09:30:16 AM
What do you shop and non shop think of this?
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www.bowlritelanes.com
www.nextlevelproshop.com
"I'm Rick James B!&$h!!!
Post by: DP3 on July 15, 2004, 12:46:05 AM
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-DJ Marshall
You're not Bowling if you're not using "B"runswick
Scratchbowling.com
Post by: Next Level PS on July 15, 2004, 01:00:24 AM
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www.bowlritelanes.com
www.nextlevelproshop.com
"I'm Rick James B!&$h!!!
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on July 15, 2004, 01:05:55 AM
Bottom line that is the problem, but there is not much that can be done about it. If the ball companies want to get their stuff back out there like they used to be a good way to do it would direct sales. As a pro shop owner if I could be a highend ball for even $110 that would drop a huge savings to the customers and if equipment were less expensive more would sell.
I have stated this on another post: When a customer brings me a ball (more often than not it was purchased online) and wants it drilled I have to make sure that they know any warranty issues are not covered through me, and that they miss out on extra services like resurfaces, cleaning etc.. for the first year. I let them know this before I even touch the ball.
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Owner/Operator
C-G Pro Shop
Post by: MichiganBowling on July 15, 2004, 01:09:27 AM
Perhaps split up the fees to $60 to drill the blank and $10-$20 to help the person pick out a ball to order.
It's pretty sad that we even talk like this. I suppose the $100 would make the point to not order stuff online!
Whatta mess.
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Brian
MichiganBowling.com
http://www.MichiganBowling.com
Famous Last Words of a Pot Bowler--"Ok, but this is my last game!"
Post by: Brickguy221 on July 15, 2004, 01:17:52 AM
quote:
It rips me up. Distributors get the extra cash, instead of the pro shops. When a ball is selling from the distributors for $135 and the manufacturer is charging the distributor $85 they are making $50 just for storing the ball until the pro shop orders it.
Why don't the proshops buy their balls off the internet just like people do and quit going thru and paying the distributors? The distributors are the ones getting rich while the proshops suffer. Is there some type rules that say the proshops can't buy off the internet?
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Retired and bowling on Fixed Income
Post by: Next Level PS on July 15, 2004, 01:26:46 AM
"Ebocrap" that says it all!!!
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www.bowlritelanes.com
www.nextlevelproshop.com
"I'm Rick James B!&$h!!!
Post by: Next Level PS on July 15, 2004, 01:30:12 AM
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www.bowlritelanes.com
www.nextlevelproshop.com
"I'm Rick James B!&$h!!!
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on July 15, 2004, 01:37:02 AM
Pro shops can buy online...with the shipping cost there is virtually no savings------AND you also lose that great working relationship with the distributor that king of the mill was talking about. I have developed a good relationship with the distributor that I go through because they are a short drive away. Face to face helps alot.
king, I know exactly what you are talking about. Stock that does not sell is the biggest draw back in the pro shop business. Distributors have gotten very good about taking that stuff back in the last few years.
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Owner/Operator
C-G Pro Shop
Post by: Brickguy221 on July 15, 2004, 01:59:08 AM
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Retired and bowling on Fixed Income
Edited on 7/15/2004 1:55 AM
Post by: tenpinspro on July 15, 2004, 07:02:47 AM
As KOTM states,
quote:
i can get just about anything i want direct (depending on the local distributors relationship with the manufacture), as long as i put up enough cash for a 256 ball or larger order. plus i may not get distributor pricing
This is another point that pricing remains at the level it does. Some manufacturers force volume and weight packages on the distributors in order for them to receive the better discounts. After a few years of getting stuck with 12-13lb high end balls, some distributors realized the risk was not worth the rewards. Therefore, they no longer bought into the volume packages causing a higher pricing from the manufacturer which in turn becomes a higher pricing to the shop equating to higher retail costs or lowered profit margins.
Some "Give-a-Way" programs from manufacturers just simply show how weak they are in the market and that their current marketing strategy or quality has not been up to par. If your product was good and people were lined up out the door trying to buy it, would you still have to "give" anything away? I don't think so. There are others who just jumped on the bandwagon because x,y,z companies already have been doing it so you'll look bad if you don't.
The internet has done a tremendous amount of damage to pro shops without a doubt. I openly recognize and respect anyone who wants to stay in the business because it would have to be for the love of it.
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Rick Leong
Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Amateur/Pro Shop Staff
Vise Grip Staff
Post by: HamPster on July 15, 2004, 07:18:38 AM
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No, really, I like you. Now, by all means, feel free to go fornicate yourself with a sharp object.
Post by: charlest on July 15, 2004, 07:42:10 AM
quote:
I didn't know the internet sites got balls cheaper . . Always wondered how they made any money on stuff.
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No, really, I like you. Now, by all means, feel free to go fornicate yourself with a sharp object.
Hamster,
Please re-read the entire thread. If I interpet all I read correctly, internet sites do NOT get special discounts solely because they are an internet site. They get discounts because they are also distributors who buy directly from the manufacturers OR because they buy in such large volumes that even distributors give them large discounts. It's volume buying that get them the low price.
I think if some distributors did not auction discontinued balls at dirt cheap prices on Ebay, with the purpose of getting some or all of their original purchase price back, we may never have learned how cheaply distributors can buy these balls from the mnaufacturers.
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"We get old too fast, and too late, smart."
Post by: HamPster on July 15, 2004, 08:01:09 AM
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No, really, I like you. Now, by all means, feel free to go fornicate yourself with a sharp object.
Post by: tenpinspro on July 15, 2004, 08:12:08 AM
quote:
I didn't know the internet sites got balls cheaper . . Always wondered how they made any money on stuff.
Hey Hamster,
Charlest hit it on the nose, they don't really get it "that" much cheaper. Majority are looking for simple volume. Someone posted a while back on price comparisons of internet sites and that did show who was getting what price from distributors. If a site was selling at $10-$20 higher, he/she was just getting avg cost but some sites(won't mention who) are either in bed with the distributor somehow or is the actual distributor using a business front name to not piss offf his regular shop customers.
Rick
Post by: tenpinspro on July 15, 2004, 08:39:37 AM
quote:
if any group of business owners in an industry get together to fix prices to control the market this would not be a union but a sort of trust. This would be against the law.
Sounds like our Gas pricing...lol.
Post by: Next Level PS on July 15, 2004, 08:41:01 AM
If a site was selling at $10-$20 higher, he/she was just getting avg cost but some sites(won't mention who) are either in bed with the distributor somehow or is the actual distributor using a business front name to not piss offf his regular shop customers.
Rick
_______________________________________________________________________________
Rick very true, the shops need to get together and start buying in volume. the funny thing about it shops still buy from that distributor which is help putting them out of buisness.
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www.bowlritelanes.com
www.nextlevelproshop.com
"I'm Rick James B!&$h!!!
Edited on 7/15/2004 8:38 AM
Edited on 7/15/2004 8:38 AM
Post by: tenpinspro on July 15, 2004, 08:56:33 AM
Can't agree more but pretty difficult to do with tax implications. Looked into this and talked to a couple of guys before but it never took off. The other hard part is due to the amount of constant new product, ordering one of this and one of that is the most common way of business for most so ordering bulk and stocking becomes another fear.
Post by: applegam on July 15, 2004, 08:59:23 AM
Post by: jkiser01 on July 15, 2004, 09:28:14 AM
I totally agree with you. They are ripping people off everyday but the prices are so much cheaper than the local pro shops, no one complains about it even though they continue to make a killing on overpriced shipping..
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If they only made a ball that would carry that da_n 7 pin (and I am right handed!!)
jkiser01
Edited on 7/15/2004 9:24 AM
Post by: channel surfer on July 15, 2004, 11:37:19 AM
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www.csbowling.vze.com
www.bowlersdream.com - save an additional $3 off any $100 order by simply typing in CSB into the coupon code area at checkout.
Post by: Brickguy221 on July 15, 2004, 11:45:19 AM
quote:
They are ripping people off everyday but the prices are so much cheaper than the local pro shops, no one complains about it even though they continue to make a killing on overpriced shipping..
jkiser, I agree with you. Also I want to bring to everyone's attention that some of the UPS offices will also rip you off. Example:...I recently shipped a 15# ball to a nearby state. The UPS office said it weighed 18.6# box and all and said the cost to ship was $18.74......I had previously shipped a ball to NY for $16 so I knew that wasn't right. I told them to reweigh and they stuck to the 18.6# and $18.74, so I went to another UPS shipping place and they said the 15# ball and box weighed 16.2# and the cost was $9.90. That's a difference of almost $9, so be careful and if the price seems too high, check it out as it probably is.
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Retired and bowling on Fixed Income
Post by: jkiser01 on July 15, 2004, 12:14:04 PM
Thats why I don't use UPS. All Kinkos have a fed ex ground drop off and they charge actual shipping, not an inflated amount like most all UPS stores.
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If they only made a ball that would carry that da_n 7 pin (and I am right handed!!)
jkiser01
Post by: solid9pin on July 15, 2004, 01:17:06 PM
and the rest just come in from internet.
I am not worried about getting rich of selling balls, I just want to make a living, so the more money in my pocket the better.
Post by: Overhand on July 15, 2004, 04:42:07 PM
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Yes, I urinate on my ball...it doesn't give me better reaction or make my hands tougher. It just makes me feel better.
Post by: s1nger1 on July 15, 2004, 05:15:04 PM
Post by: twister on July 15, 2004, 05:39:09 PM
Post by: solid9pin on July 15, 2004, 07:05:56 PM
Now the proshops can benifit from this, No overhead meaning they dont have to carry soo many balls now. They can just benifit from the internet sites. I know for fact that a online shop here on the east coast has a deal with local proshops that they drill the ball for $15.00.
The internet sites are not going away no matter how much people complain. There is too much money involved in the sales to the online sites. So it all boiles down to your own marketing and how much more you want to sell the ball for then the next company.
There is many proshops in town that are not even affected by internet sales and
dont care about them either way. If you are a good driller and have a nice shop people will go to your shop no matter what.
Post by: mumzie on July 15, 2004, 07:33:50 PM
Here's what's involved in the manufacturer selling a quantity of bowling balls:
a. Distributor requests 4/8/12 (some multiple of 4) balls of type A, weights 1,2, and 3. He also requests 4/8/12 balls of type B, weights 1 and 2. He gets a really good price on these balls, and either free or reduced shipping. In doing so, he might have to take a couple of low weight balls.
b. Proshop X needs 1 type A, weight 2, and one type B, weight 1. He calls the local distributor, who goes through the boxes and finds the exact order for the pro shop. He then delivers them to the pro shop, or has them shipped.
c. Distributor may handle warranty issues directly with the manufacturer.
With this methodology, the manufacturer deals with a finite number of distributors. Each distributor deals with a finite number of pro shops.
Don't forget - this also includes the overhead of billing, credit issues, bad checks, etc, etc, etc...
Here's what's involved if the manufacturer sells direct to the pro shop:
Proshop X needs 1 type A, weight 2, and one type B, weight 1. He calls the manufacturer, who goes through the boxes and finds the exact order for the pro shop. The manufacturer then has them shipped to the pro shop.
Multiply this by a thousand pro shops a day. Billing, credit, warranty issues, etc.
I imagine the price of a Brunswick ball would go up $25 just to cover the overhead.
d. Manufacturer deals with a few distributors.
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All things are difficult
before they are easy.
---- Thomas Fuller
Post by: TheDude on July 15, 2004, 08:56:43 PM
I have been watching ebay closely and seen all the TPC players on ebay going for dirt cheap and yes i even bidded on one
sorry couldn't resist. I am likely going to set up an online store on ebay to sell more product. but i am in a slightly more advantagous situation than most of the other shops here in this post. I am canadian( and proud) so there is only a handful of distributors and they all respect the manufacture-distributor-proshop-bowler chain of distribution. The distributors all sell direct to the public but charge the same as proshops do.
Also i work for a bowling magazine so we regularly get test balls weeks before public release, so we get a heads up on what's hot and what's not.
I saw on the ebay auctions that they are shipping to canada at a flat fee as well. I for one have purchased items other than bowling balls online and from the US and the momment it gets to the boarder it gets taxed or hit with a pile of customs and duty, so for me the savings becomes Zero in the end. with exchange rates, shipping, and customs, i save very little when i buy online on certain things.
the idea of a CO-OP would be a good one, or basically something that is a little more widely used than IBPSIA. IBPSIA mostly be teaching rather than pricing controls association is not widely followed because of the expense in the membership fees.
sorry i don't have any helpful suggestions but i am going to use this post to my advantage.
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Montreal, Quebec.