Author Topic: Proshop Jacks (Read 6175 times)

Locke · « **on:** February 10, 2009, 04:07:36 PM »

So the other day I went into the local shop to help the girl I am coaching find a new ball. Now she is a tiny little girl, about 5'2" and maybe 115Lb. No surprise she is a low speed low rev bowler. So I was talking with the shop owner asking what equipment he might recommend. I told her all about her game and he, with out taking any of what I said into account, starts pushing equipment on her instead of talking to me. We are looking for a light oil ball for her. I was thinking Vibe or Neptune, thinking as a low speed low rev bowler she needs a pearl with a core. He starts pushing Tropical Storm or Columbia Jazz. I cut in and said that she really needs a ball with a real core and he tells me that they do have real cores because they have a flip block. Finally I get him off her and they start talking about shoes and he tries pushing a $225 pair of global 900 shoes on her. So he want her to buy the most entry level ball he has but then the most expensive shoes he has... I almost hit him. Anyone else ever almost go across the counter on a proshop owner?
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Nbgiant25 · « **Reply #31 on:** February 12, 2009, 07:04:52 AM »

quote:
Let's see your hissy fitting because the pro shop didn't try to up sell her on a more expensive light oil bowling ball. Throw that tropical storm and see how strong it really is. I think your friend is better off getting somebody else than you as her coach.

I'd much rather sell a bowler a good pair of shoes than try to up sell on a bowling ball.

Your in HIS pro shop, it's not YOUR pro shop and he is the PROFESSIONAL. You give him just due to talk to the bowler on what he thinks is a good ball. You don't butt in because you want to. YOUR not the pro shop operator, your opinion is just an opinion. Let the professional do his job. He was correct in his assessment in a ball choice.

Edited on 2/11/2009 3:00 AM

You could not be more off base with that opinion... A person's coach, if they are a good one, is infinitely more helpful in ball selection than a pro shop owner that has never seen a person throw a ball. I get sick and tired of people like you putting PSO's up on a pedestal as 'professionals' even when you don't know them personally. There are inumerable pro shop quacks out there who give terrible advice, and this guy sounds like one of them. He doesn't know her game, so he needs to defer to the coach.

bluerrpilot · « **Reply #32 on:** February 12, 2009, 09:33:09 AM »

quote:
. I believe SHE needs a core because of the low speed and low revs it doesn't store energy for the turn. I want something for her that will actually make a move instead of just kind of rolling.

You should understand, that if she throws something with a core, it will flare more. That could bleed off more energy resulting in hitting weaker. Since your her coach, try working with her to get both speed and rev rate up a bit. Then she will have more options.
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"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"

BeansProShop · « **Reply #33 on:** February 12, 2009, 09:38:36 PM »

quote:
I've reached over the counter at my old ball driller from a few years back. Bought a NIB Black Raspberry Lane #1 from him and had him drill it up for me. Took it out on the lanes and it didn't do anything. One ball would go directly straight, the next would turn like a hockey stick. He still claims to this day that he did nothing wrong and refused to fix/pay me back for the ball because he screwed up.

Took it to a different driller (Dennis Reale, works with Brunswick now) and he determined that the ball had 5 1/2 ounces of top weight and 4 1/2 ounces of side weight. He plugged the ball and re-drilled and it then worked exactly as advertised.

Edited on 2/11/2009 7:54 AM

Sounds like a typical Brunswick Mismarked ball. I have a Silver Diamond that the CG was 3 inches from the label the CG is usually in. I always found my CG's before I drilled anything from Brunswick. Don't think Dennis is with Brunwswick anymore. I think he works for Ace Mitchell.

Beans
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www.beansproshop.com
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Thomas "Beans" Biniek Jr.
PBA Member and Lane#1 National Sales Manager and Lane#1 Ball Drilling Expert
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BeansProShop · « **Reply #34 on:** February 12, 2009, 09:43:06 PM »

quote:
Funny, Locke has disappeared now that he not hearing what he wants.

Agree with most of the posts. Shop dude should watch her bowl. Especially with the way Locke embellishes, his version of low speed may not be the rest of the world's version of low speed.

Shoes are the most underrated piece of bowling equipment. You can't beat having trusty slide wherever you go. If this little girl is 19, she has probably quit growing, and even at $225, the shoes will probably last her 5-6 years minimum.

My wife is 5'2" and was about 95lbs when I met her, trying to throw a 16lb ball, because that's what she had always thrown. Her average jumped 15 pins when I got her to go down to 15lbs. If she's averaging 175, then she probably can use more help than Locke is giving her. Being small doesn't mean light. Also, if her revs are "so low", then the balls mentioned might be darts, even on light oil. Do we really know if she bowls on "light oil"? Does Locke know what "light oil" is?

Lastly, why get a recommendation from someone who is not drilling the ball? The guy drilling it should be the one giving the advice. Loved my Trops and still have a Jazz.

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If she was that big when you met her, how big is she now...LOL!!

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www.beansproshop.com
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Thomas "Beans" Biniek Jr.
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Check out current eBay auctions at:
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Mike Austin · « **Reply #35 on:** February 12, 2009, 09:55:56 PM »

quote:
quote:
Funny, Locke has disappeared now that he not hearing what he wants.

Agree with most of the posts. Shop dude should watch her bowl. Especially with the way Locke embellishes, his version of low speed may not be the rest of the world's version of low speed.

Shoes are the most underrated piece of bowling equipment. You can't beat having trusty slide wherever you go. If this little girl is 19, she has probably quit growing, and even at $225, the shoes will probably last her 5-6 years minimum.

My wife is 5'2" and was about 95lbs when I met her, trying to throw a 16lb ball, because that's what she had always thrown. Her average jumped 15 pins when I got her to go down to 15lbs. If she's averaging 175, then she probably can use more help than Locke is giving her. Being small doesn't mean light. Also, if her revs are "so low", then the balls mentioned might be darts, even on light oil. Do we really know if she bowls on "light oil"? Does Locke know what "light oil" is?

Lastly, why get a recommendation from someone who is not drilling the ball? The guy drilling it should be the one giving the advice. Loved my Trops and still have a Jazz.

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THIS SPACE FOR RENT

If she was that big when you met her, how big is she now...LOL!!
--------------------
www.beansproshop.com
--------------------
Thomas "Beans" Biniek Jr.
PBA Member and Lane#1 National Sales Manager and Lane#1 Ball Drilling Expert
Check out current eBay auctions at:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=beanssecretsauce Official Pro Shop of "ALL" F.O.S. Members!!!

A shot from Beaner!!

She's still 5'2", but her weight is up to about 120lbs. She looks so much better, healthier. My wife doesn't bowl anymore either. Too bad, she actually has some raw talent, one of those "I can do it, I just don't know how I did that" types. She cashed in her only LPBT Regional Singles event.

Locke, if you already know what she wants, and aren't going to take the shop guys recommendation, why ask in the first place?

I agree with the comment about a strong core burning up too. If her speed IS really slow, and the lanes ARE dry, then a Tropical type core is will be flippier on the back end, where you are wanting the extra motion. If her speed is slow, she will carry good hits anyway, she just won't throw wood around much.
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Mike Austin · « **Reply #36 on:** February 12, 2009, 09:58:41 PM »

quote:
quote:
Let's see your hissy fitting because the pro shop didn't try to up sell her on a more expensive light oil bowling ball. Throw that tropical storm and see how strong it really is. I think your friend is better off getting somebody else than you as her coach.

I'd much rather sell a bowler a good pair of shoes than try to up sell on a bowling ball.

Your in HIS pro shop, it's not YOUR pro shop and he is the PROFESSIONAL. You give him just due to talk to the bowler on what he thinks is a good ball. You don't butt in because you want to. YOUR not the pro shop operator, your opinion is just an opinion. Let the professional do his job. He was correct in his assessment in a ball choice.

Edited on 2/11/2009 3:00 AM

You could not be more off base with that opinion... A person's coach, if they are a good one, is infinitely more helpful in ball selection than a pro shop owner that has never seen a person throw a ball. I get sick and tired of people like you putting PSO's up on a pedestal as 'professionals' even when you don't know them personally. There are inumerable pro shop quacks out there who give terrible advice, and this guy sounds like one of them. He doesn't know her game, so he needs to defer to the coach.

And if the coach isn't a good one? The shop operator has time/money/reputation invested. The coach??? A class? He can hook it?? We don't know and neither do you.
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THIS SPACE FOR RENT

Nbgiant25 · « **Reply #37 on:** February 13, 2009, 08:27:29 AM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
Let's see your hissy fitting because the pro shop didn't try to up sell her on a more expensive light oil bowling ball. Throw that tropical storm and see how strong it really is. I think your friend is better off getting somebody else than you as her coach.

I'd much rather sell a bowler a good pair of shoes than try to up sell on a bowling ball.

Your in HIS pro shop, it's not YOUR pro shop and he is the PROFESSIONAL. You give him just due to talk to the bowler on what he thinks is a good ball. You don't butt in because you want to. YOUR not the pro shop operator, your opinion is just an opinion. Let the professional do his job. He was correct in his assessment in a ball choice.

Edited on 2/11/2009 3:00 AM

You could not be more off base with that opinion... A person's coach, if they are a good one, is infinitely more helpful in ball selection than a pro shop owner that has never seen a person throw a ball. I get sick and tired of people like you putting PSO's up on a pedestal as 'professionals' even when you don't know them personally. There are inumerable pro shop quacks out there who give terrible advice, and this guy sounds like one of them. He doesn't know her game, so he needs to defer to the coach.

And if the coach isn't a good one? The shop operator has time/money/reputation invested. The coach??? A class? He can hook it?? We don't know and neither do you.
--------------------
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

Doesn't matter. If the PSO never took the time to watch her throw the ball, the coach is a better measure. The PSO in this case has nothing at all invested. You think that if he sells a ball other than his preference to a 175 house pattern bowler and it doesn't work out that there will be some sort of repercussions on his business? I don't think so.

You're assuming that the PSO knows all and that the coach may be a fraud, which is unfortunately an oft mistaken opinion in our sport. In a situation such as this, I'll be objective and give the benefit of the doubt to the coach, who has no monetary gain at stake in the actual sale of the bowling ball, whereas the PSO does. However, the coach does have to deal with the consequences if the ball choice is way off base and doesn't provide the improvement that the student is looking for, potentially costing him ongoing income.

Edited on 2/13/2009 9:30 AM

Nor Cal Bowler · « **Reply #38 on:** February 13, 2009, 12:46:49 PM »

Well if the PSO works in a Bowl, then he/she should be watching their customer bowl. There is no excuse for them not to do so!
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Locke · « **Reply #39 on:** February 13, 2009, 12:52:13 PM »

quote:
quote:
. I believe SHE needs a core because of the low speed and low revs it doesn't store energy for the turn. I want something for her that will actually make a move instead of just kind of rolling.

You should understand, that if she throws something with a core, it will flare more. That could bleed off more energy resulting in hitting weaker. Since your her coach, try working with her to get both speed and rev rate up a bit. Then she will have more options.
--------------------
"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"

Trust me, I know equipment. I was in there to try to see if there was another ball in that vibe/neptune area that I had not thought of. Also, strong core is what she needs for her game. Her release has her verging on a spinner release, she gets plenty of skid without having to sacrifice core. I got her off that 14Lb Track EMB and to the Roto Grip Epic Quest and her carry percentage in league went up. He number one problem on a house shot is leaving ten pins. She is averaging 1.5 more strikes per game with the stronger core. But you know, I would have told you all about her game before if that is actually what I was complaining about. The fact of the matter is, I am a trained coach, both through the old YABA and through Brunswick. I also am carrying an average much high than most people here and I am a youth tour bowler. I know what I am doing out there. I also know what I am doing when coaching. Whether or not I look that because I am 20, the pro should respect me as her coach when I introduce myself as such.
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Always be sincere, even when you don't mean it

The Cell Pimp

bluerrpilot · « **Reply #40 on:** February 14, 2009, 07:59:35 AM »

quote:
I got her off that 14Lb Track EMB and to the Roto Grip Epic Quest and her carry percentage in league went up. The number one problem on a house shot is leaving ten pins.

Balls, cores and covers dont leave ten pins ......

So with both of those balls having similar numbers and particle covers, why do you think her carry percentage went up.
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"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"

Locke · « **Reply #41 on:** February 14, 2009, 04:19:42 PM »

No they don't leave ten pins but add them together and you get a reaction and a bad reaction does leave a ten pin. So actually they do leave ten pins. As for why, number one I got her a better layout on the ball, also I severely doubt that the cover of a ball that is 7 years old is going to be as aggressive as a modern ball. Also, those two numbers don't tell you everything about the core. These are very different cores.

quote:
quote:
I got her off that 14Lb Track EMB and to the Roto Grip Epic Quest and her carry percentage in league went up. The number one problem on a house shot is leaving ten pins.

Balls, cores and covers dont leave ten pins ......

So with both of those balls having similar numbers and particle covers, why do you think her carry percentage went up.
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"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"

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Always be sincere, even when you don't mean it

The Cell Pimp

Smash49 · « **Reply #42 on:** February 14, 2009, 04:45:25 PM »

quote:
"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"

Interesting quote! Tech has grown by leaps and bounds. This is true in bowling equipment and in coaching. Unfortunately few people have actually taken advantage of coaching. Many people try to by game in a box. Some have better results than others. As for coaching, I get the feeling you will soon see some big changes in coaching from USBC. The first thing most likely will be better quality control. Once that happens there should be an explosion of progress.

Smash49

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Smash49

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Romeo · « **Reply #43 on:** February 14, 2009, 11:12:41 PM »

I never had a problem like that with a proshop but I nearly came across the counter at the owner of my local bowling alley. I think about it everyday and wish I had knocked the guys lights out. That guy was such an ***.

Author Topic: Proshop Jacks (Read 6175 times)

Locke

Proshop Jacks

Nbgiant25

Re: Proshop Jacks

bluerrpilot

Re: Proshop Jacks

BeansProShop

Re: Proshop Jacks

BeansProShop

Re: Proshop Jacks

Mike Austin

Re: Proshop Jacks

Mike Austin

Re: Proshop Jacks

Nbgiant25

Re: Proshop Jacks

Nor Cal Bowler

Re: Proshop Jacks

Locke

Re: Proshop Jacks

bluerrpilot

Re: Proshop Jacks

Locke

Re: Proshop Jacks

Smash49

Re: Proshop Jacks

Romeo

Re: Proshop Jacks