BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Good Times Good Times on December 27, 2013, 10:25:14 AM
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This is somewhat of an anomaly to me and a topic I find a mystery.
First a quick bit about me (and this is not FIGJAM worthy), I'm currently having a career best 234 avg in one league and struggling in the other at 222 (to be fair, this house is naturally tougher)......my sport pattern average is in the 195ish range. FOR ME, I think my PBAX summer league is REAL bowling, and I relish the challenge. I would, in a perfect world, bowl on these patterns all winter long and set goals accordingly, if I were able.
What I'm asking about is this stereotypical ego that cannot handle NOT scoring, bowlers who NEED the inflated average a THS provides. This is a mystery to me. What happens to these people / ego's IN THE MOMENT when they're bowling on exceptionally difficult conditions? What are they thinking IN THE MOMENT of (for example after game 1 when they shoot 132) failure? Is there some cognitive dissonance or some Dunning–Kruger effect going on?
(Enter poker player me) I'm struggling to grasp the psychology of the stereotypical fragile ego (lets be honest, we ALL know them). Can someone help me w/this? I'm trying to reverse engineer the concept and understand the WHY the 195 PBAX average would crush my ego.....I mean, it's quite objectively obv that the THS is a softer condition and flat patterns are more difficult thus the universal scoring pace differential.
Think of this as analysis of the person YOU / WE ALL know......It's such a relevant topic in bowling today so a little exploration should be nice and everyone can contribute. Another way of stating it: If there were a truth serum in their blood and we could interrogate HONEST answers, what would we get?
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I like this post but would like to comment on the other side of the coin.
Some people average 220+ on THS and really don't have any urge to bowl on tough conditions. They don't necessarily fear them or care about their ego, but they also don't have time or the urge to find a tougher shot.
What annoys me is when the people who DO bowl on the tough shots and bash people for bowling on THS.
Again, +1 on this post, but I hope people don't bash the casual, social, send it right, and watch it hook-ers. ;D
I'm definitely going to find a PBA league for Summer 2014 and I'm juiced for it.
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What annoys me is when the people who DO bowl on the tough shots and bash people for bowling on THS.
This is fair. I also find that annoying.
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I love bowling Sport Patterns. I drive 60 miles (each way) year round for a PBA league. I also bowl an additional PBA league locally in the summer. It's only held in summer because they can't get enough people for a winter league.
And although I prefer to bowl on the flatter patterns, I can understand why some people want no part of it and are content to bowl on a THS.
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Now this is a pretty good post (here's my take)
There's only a very small percentage of people who bowl in tournaments (though or not) I know for me personally we've run 2 tournaments in the last month. One on Dean Man's Curve and one on Middle Road. Both tourney's had a cut score in the minus and the average to make the cut was roughly 190. (not to figjam but..) I lead both tourney's in qualifying with plus 165 (5 games) on middle road and plus 86 (4 games) on dead man's. On both occasions I could care less what I was averaging as long as i was in the cut number. I think most people are the same way (at least when it comes to tournaments). I know also on both occasions there were 220+ THS average guys that barely averaged 200 and some who weren't even close to the cut. They realize that its tougher and it's ok most of the time.
I look at it this way, I believe i'm a top player and should make 90% of every cut in every tournament I bowl or make money in every event I bowl, sometimes you just have bad days/weekends. I think it all evens out at the end of the year.
I think league bowling is what you make of it. For some (actually most) it is used for a night out with friends (perhaps to make some money) for others like myself its for practice, trying new balls, and bowling with people i like to be around and being an ambassador to the sport by helping others when needed. The sport cant grow unless people are helping others.
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I bowl on the PBAX league during the summer. I bowl in the nationals for the last 8 years. I get 14 weeks on 5 different patterns. It seems that I don't get enough practice on any pattern to become proficient at it. I average 215-225 on THS, but I have trouble averaging 180 (178-179 last 2 years). I could understand a 15-30 pin difference, but 50 pins doesn't sit well with me. I am a heavy handed tweener, and I am trying to figure out a way to average 190+ on sport patterns. There are not enough sport tournaments around to get good practice, but some of the tournament patterns are difficult and I feel like I could to better if I can get better on sport patterns. This is why I want to bowl in sport patterns. I believe if I can master them, I will be able to bowl better on different difficult house tournament patterns.
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Bowling has become 2-fold...those that desire a true challenge (minimal amount) and the rest, I see it as miniature golf compared to US Open conditions in golf. You can't fault those that do not desire the challenge of tougher conditions but in an invisible environment such as bowling, most do not understand or see the difference between the 2 and boast inflatable accomplishments on easier conditions.
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I think the biggest problem comes from the guys who have the big egos about their average on a house shot, not necessarily about people who simply have a big average on a THS. They are only familiar with a THS, and don't have the experience to realize what's going on or be objective about it. They're used to being successful on the conditions they bowl on, and that equates as being good or proficient across the board to them. So when they finally encounter something they don't have success on, whether or not they actually realize they aren't as "good" as they thought they were, the reaction usually isn't that, it's usually to blame the lanes, equipment, etc. The rest of us don't like that, and so there's a general disdain for nearly everyone who has a high average on a house shot. Being "good" is also all about perspective. 30 years ago, if you averaged 205, you may not be pro material, but you were pretty darn good, and I'd consider 205 on a PBAX league fairly good too. Take a 240 average on a THS and put him on a PBAX league, if he finishes with 205, that's still pretty respectable in my book, but he may not see it that way.
It's simply that they don't understand or are inexperienced, and speaking from my own prior inexperienced opinion when I first started getting into tougher shots, if you tell someone ELSE who doesn't understand, "Oh I went to this tournament and averaged 200" when you average 225 on a house shot, you know how they're going to react. They're going to razz you for it, or give you grief, or comment on how terrible it went for you, even if you were to say you won! Because the other people would then assume you had no competition, or that there was something wrong with the lane machine and completely write it off. People associate skill with score, and NOT score in relation to scoring pace. People will always see a 230 average in the midst of several other 230 averages as better than a 205 average leading a PBAX league.
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Bowling has become 2-fold...those that desire a true challenge (minimal amount) and the rest, I see it as miniature golf compared to US Open conditions in golf. You can't fault those that do not desire the challenge of tougher conditions but in an invisible environment such as bowling, most do not understand or see the difference between the 2 and boast inflatable accomplishments on easier conditions.
I think a better comparison would be softball. D Level rec league softball is full of people with skill (and not so much skill), but they go out there to try and hit homeruns and maybe win a few close games.
Then there is high level softball for the skilled AND competitive players. The players who hit a ton of homeruns in the low level league won't necessarily be able to compete in a higher level league.
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However you wish to compare is cool...to me the disparity in conditions has vastly grown the past 10 yrs or so...years ago if you wanted a 'sport' compliant condition you'd cross wipe em with a line-a-duster!
Most of the 'so-called' easier conditions have built in friction side to side where tougher conditions tend to have less built-in path putting the onus on shot making or at least understanding of ball motion and/or equipment.
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Great and civil responses so far.......much appreicated.
I came up w/this topic after thinking about it for a bit....
There are a few guys that bowl together in one of my leagues (they're roughly 215-220 avg guys with MONSTER EGO's (not pricks tho, there's a difference) who got together for the PBAX league and needless to say, after the first 4 weeks (cheetah and viper) and averaging in the 160's they. were. done. The level of defeat in their faces was incredible. They were having the worst time while I was having a blast grinding on 9/'s and being right at 600 (which is not a "bad" set).
I try to put myself in their shoes and understand why they did what they did. Don't get me wrong, they're good guys, but once they realized they weren't scoring (and weren't going to) they checked out and had subs every week. How they don't realize that is weak..........that's beyond me.
Now that they're back in league and averaging right at 220ish they're back to themselves.
It simply amazes me (and I'll use JustRico's example) how an above average putt-putt player actually thinks (at the very least act like) he's good at the ENTIRE sport, in context....there is some psychological "thing" going on.
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Great and civil responses so far.......much appreicated.
I came up w/this topic after thinking about it for a bit....
There are a few guys that bowl together in one of my leagues (they're roughly 215-220 avg guys with MONSTER EGO's (not pricks tho, there's a difference) who got together for the PBAX league and needless to say, after the first 4 weeks (cheetah and viper) and averaging in the 160's they. were. done. The level of defeat in their faces was incredible. They were having the worst time while I was having a blast grinding on 9/'s and being right at 600 (which is not a "bad" set).
I try to put myself in their shoes and understand why they did what they did. Don't get me wrong, they're good guys, but once they realized they weren't scoring (and weren't going to) they checked out and had subs every week. How they don't realize that is weak..........that's beyond me.
Now that they're back in league and averaging right at 220ish they're back to themselves.
It simply amazes me (and I'll use JustRico's example) how an above average putt-putt player actually thinks (at the very least act like) he's good at the ENTIRE sport, in context....there is some psychological "thing" going on.
Happens all the time.....I tried to run a PBAX league a few years ago, asked one of the better THS bowlers if he wanted to join and i quote "why would i want to spend $20 a week to bowl bad.....Unfortunately that happens a lot, in league there has to be a perceived value for alot of people instead of paying to enjoy/learn the game. Again about the tournaments i have run, anytime you mention the word scratch even the 210 bowlers frown beacuse they dont think they can compete with the 230-240 guys.
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.....and i quote "why would i want to spend $20 a week to bowl bad.....Unfortunately that happens a lot, in league there has to be a perceived value for alot of people instead of paying to enjoy/learn the game.
Man, that is just such a WEAK play.
I guess I'm just going to have to accept that. It's interesting THEY don't view that as a weak play. They just HAVE to know it is.
They are awesome guys......I think I lost a TON of respect for them, as bowlers and competitors, though.
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.....and i quote "why would i want to spend $20 a week to bowl bad.....Unfortunately that happens a lot, in league there has to be a perceived value for alot of people instead of paying to enjoy/learn the game.
Man, that is just such a WEAK play.
I guess I'm just going to have to accept that. It's interesting THEY don't view that as a weak play. They just HAVE to know it is.
They are awesome guys......I think I lost a TON of respect for them, as bowlers and competitors, though.
I TOTALLY agree...
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Well and these two points right here are really telling as far as their perspective goes. They associate low scores with bowling bad. That's exactly what they'll say too, they don't say score lower, they say bowl bad. So even if they average 205-210 and that's the top end of the scoring pace, they still won't enjoy it. Bowling has become about the score you get rather than winning or losing.
.....and i quote "why would i want to spend $20 a week to bowl bad.....Unfortunately that happens a lot, in league there has to be a perceived value for alot of people instead of paying to enjoy/learn the game.
Man, that is just such a WEAK play.
I guess I'm just going to have to accept that. It's interesting THEY don't view that as a weak play. They just HAVE to know it is.
They are awesome guys......I think I lost a TON of respect for them, as bowlers and competitors, though.
I TOTALLY agree...
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Well and these two points right here are really telling as far as their perspective goes. They associate low scores with bowling bad. That's exactly what they'll say too, they don't say score lower, they say bowl bad. So even if they average 205-210 and that's the top end of the scoring pace, they still won't enjoy it. Bowling has become about the score you get rather than winning or losing.
.....and i quote "why would i want to spend $20 a week to bowl bad.....Unfortunately that happens a lot, in league there has to be a perceived value for alot of people instead of paying to enjoy/learn the game.
Man, that is just such a WEAK play.
I guess I'm just going to have to accept that. It's interesting THEY don't view that as a weak play. They just HAVE to know it is.
They are awesome guys......I think I lost a TON of respect for them, as bowlers and competitors, though.
I TOTALLY agree...
My perspective is as long as i'm in the upper tier to top guy i don't care the pace of scoring. but you are correct that doesn't hold true for alot of people
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Yeah, I would agree. I've always said I don't care if I'm shooting 260s or 160s, as long as everybody else is shooting lower. But a lot of people don't have fun unless they're shooting big numbers, regardless of whether they're winning or losing. I've even heard people say, "Well I only beat the guy 190-180, doesn't really seem like I earned it," after I just watched them get a clutch double 9th and 10th to seal the deal. I'm back there on the edge of my seat, and they're disappointed they only got one double that game and didn't break 200.
Well and these two points right here are really telling as far as their perspective goes. They associate low scores with bowling bad. That's exactly what they'll say too, they don't say score lower, they say bowl bad. So even if they average 205-210 and that's the top end of the scoring pace, they still won't enjoy it. Bowling has become about the score you get rather than winning or losing.
.....and i quote "why would i want to spend $20 a week to bowl bad.....Unfortunately that happens a lot, in league there has to be a perceived value for alot of people instead of paying to enjoy/learn the game.
Man, that is just such a WEAK play.
I guess I'm just going to have to accept that. It's interesting THEY don't view that as a weak play. They just HAVE to know it is.
They are awesome guys......I think I lost a TON of respect for them, as bowlers and competitors, though.
I TOTALLY agree...
My perspective is as long as i'm in the upper tier to top guy i don't care the pace of scoring. but you are correct that doesn't hold true for alot of people
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Yes, I have experienced this as well. And the same guys didn't understand why I was so proud of my "clean game". LOL
Honestly, I get more excited about no open frames than a 220+ game on flat oil with a washout, split or whiffed 10 pin in the middle of it.
Yeah, I would agree. I've always said I don't care if I'm shooting 260s or 160s, as long as everybody else is shooting lower. But a lot of people don't have fun unless they're shooting big numbers, regardless of whether they're winning or losing. I've even heard people say, "Well I only beat the guy 190-180, doesn't really seem like I earned it," after I just watched them get a clutch double 9th and 10th to seal the deal. I'm back there on the edge of my seat, and they're disappointed they only got one double that game and didn't break 200.
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Yes, I have experienced this as well. And the same guys didn't understand why I was so proud of my "clean game". LOL
Honestly, I get more excited about no open frames than a 220+ game on flat oil with a washout, split or whiffed 10 pin in the middle of it.
Yeah, I would agree. I've always said I don't care if I'm shooting 260s or 160s, as long as everybody else is shooting lower. But a lot of people don't have fun unless they're shooting big numbers, regardless of whether they're winning or losing. I've even heard people say, "Well I only beat the guy 190-180, doesn't really seem like I earned it," after I just watched them get a clutch double 9th and 10th to seal the deal. I'm back there on the edge of my seat, and they're disappointed they only got one double that game and didn't break 200.
+1
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Another Point to think about: Why do so many people get wrapped up in the idea of the THS? As many of you have said the scores are all relative, no? I mean granted on a THS there are some suspect 220 guys, but honestly if you're 225+ you have to be at least decent, no? I know in one of my leagues I average 250 this center doesn't transition much and carry is above average, my other league at another center I average 237 this center is very inconsistent and the transition is very weird and the carry is average at best. Now i'm high average at both centers and i'm fine with that, hell if I was high at 190 that would be fine with me.
Back to my point, why does everyone bash the THS, if you're that good you should have problems out shooting everyone....Oh wait is it because of luck? I tend to think no matter the shot people always get lucky sometime or another...just some food for thought
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Haven't you heard, it's not luck, it's Physics! (Sorry Giz, had to do it ;D )
You do make a great point, averaging 220+ even on the easiest THS still requires skill. It might be a different method of bowling than a flat pattern, but it's still a skill set that the majority of bowlers do not have. And as you get above the 230s, your margin for error rapidly approaches ZERO to maintain that average!
Another Point to think about: Why do so many people get wrapped up in the idea of the THS? As many of you have said the scores are all relative, no? I mean granted on a THS there are some suspect 220 guys, but honestly if you're 225+ you have to be at least decent, no? I know in one of my leagues I average 250 this center doesn't transition much and carry is above average, my other league at another center I average 237 this center is very inconsistent and the transition is very weird and the carry is average at best. Now i'm high average at both centers and i'm fine with that, hell if I was high at 190 that would be fine with me.
Back to my point, why does everyone bash the THS, if you're that good you should have problems out shooting everyone....Oh wait is it because of luck? I tend to think no matter the shot people always get lucky sometime or another...just some food for thought
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Only food for thought I have is this: Speed and power are a lot more important on a THS, or they can inflate scores even more. On a tougher shot, the balance returns to shot making. On a THS, you're more free to "let it fly" so to speak. So if you're a more accurate bowler, you won't necessarily score super high on a THS. Mika is a good example of this, he actually does better on tougher shots because of how they play, trying to loop around the sludge in the middle of THS just isn't his game. I'm kinda the same way, the tougher the shot gets, the better I like my chances, I don't fare quite as well in carry contests. Otherwise I agree.
Another Point to think about: Why do so many people get wrapped up in the idea of the THS? As many of you have said the scores are all relative, no? I mean granted on a THS there are some suspect 220 guys, but honestly if you're 225+ you have to be at least decent, no? I know in one of my leagues I average 250 this center doesn't transition much and carry is above average, my other league at another center I average 237 this center is very inconsistent and the transition is very weird and the carry is average at best. Now i'm high average at both centers and i'm fine with that, hell if I was high at 190 that would be fine with me.
Back to my point, why does everyone bash the THS, if you're that good you should have problems out shooting everyone....Oh wait is it because of luck? I tend to think no matter the shot people always get lucky sometime or another...just some food for thought
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Lmao, +1
Haven't you heard, it's not luck, it's Physics! (Sorry Giz, had to do it ;D )
You do make a great point, averaging 220+ even on the easiest THS still requires skill. It might be a different method of bowling than a flat pattern, but it's still a skill set that the majority of bowlers do not have. And as you get above the 230s, your margin for error rapidly approaches ZERO to maintain that average!
Another Point to think about: Why do so many people get wrapped up in the idea of the THS? As many of you have said the scores are all relative, no? I mean granted on a THS there are some suspect 220 guys, but honestly if you're 225+ you have to be at least decent, no? I know in one of my leagues I average 250 this center doesn't transition much and carry is above average, my other league at another center I average 237 this center is very inconsistent and the transition is very weird and the carry is average at best. Now i'm high average at both centers and i'm fine with that, hell if I was high at 190 that would be fine with me.
Back to my point, why does everyone bash the THS, if you're that good you should have problems out shooting everyone....Oh wait is it because of luck? I tend to think no matter the shot people always get lucky sometime or another...just some food for thought
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I think there is a big misperception that egos are what get damaged when THS bowlers hit flatter conditions. It is really more about having fun. Most bowlers do it for fun. They like to hook the ball, and like to throw strikes. Bowlers shouldn't look for sport leagues unless they want the challenge. Neither should those who do bowl in sport leagues put down guys who do just want to have fun. Most "stand left, throw right" guys are under no illusion that they can compete against top players on tournament patterns.
Always remember, most of us define an honest condition as one where we can score better than the other guy. Corollary to that is, "nobody ever quit bowling because they scored to high, but some guys quit because the other guy does"
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There are shot makers and shot throwers, best way I can it.
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I agree with the statement that "something psychological" is going on.
While many don't even realize it, they have tied their self appreciation, psychologically, to their ability to perform, and their expectations.
When those expectations aren't met, they have a definite feeling of failure and low self worth/esteem. Trust me, this is NOT a good feeling. Every human alive will instinctively try to avoid those feelings.
If you feel that averaging 195 is a good thing, and a success, you will feel really good about having done it.
If, however, you have become conditioned to averaging 220, you will have a hard time adjusting psychologically to averaging 195, even if you understand why, and will NOT feel good, or successful, about it, no matter WHY it happened.
I don't like "sport" conditions. Not because they don't serve a purpose, but because I fully believe that when you have to ARTIFICIALLY make things harder ON PURPOSE, that someone or something has made it to easy to begin with.
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Sports is separated by the psychology and ego of the competitors...the elite are the ones that understand it and use it to their advantage
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I think the biggest misconception about sport conditions vs THS conditions is the harder vs easier thing. THS isn't easier in the sense that it makes shot making less valuable. It is easier in the sense that it rewards a more powerful delivery, and is amendable to more different styles. Flatter patterns force you to adjust your roll to fit the end of the pattern. THS allows you to adjust right or left and in essence create an end to the pattern at the optimum place for your style.
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I think the biggest misconception about sport conditions vs THS conditions is the harder vs easier thing. THS isn't easier in the sense that it makes shot making less valuable. It is easier in the sense that it rewards a more powerful delivery, and is amendable to more different styles. Flatter patterns force you to adjust your roll to fit the end of the pattern. THS allows you to adjust right or left and in essence create an end to the pattern at the optimum place for your style.
THS is easier, I have not seen a Sport pattern that I can miss target 5 boards right and still massacre the pocket and still yank if 5 left and still hit the pocket.
Spare shooting and shot making are at a premium on more demanding conditions, on a ths you can miss spares because odds are you will still throw 4 in a row sosomewhere.
My thoughts
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Well I bowl in an area where people would rather shoot 290 and lose than shoot 190 and win. People will also swear by certain bowlers saying they can not be shut out but these bowlers will not bowl in houses they know before hand that they struggle on those lanes.
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My thoughts are this.....
If I know its a sport shot tournament, I know i wont average 250+ unless, I happen to have the tournament of my life .... Although, I did average 220+ on the last sport pattern tournament I did.. But that tournament really helped me with my release and taking hand out of the ball...
And in return the last two weeks of leagues have been unreal...
Usually my thoughts are if I average around 200 on a sport shot, I am bowling really well...
And I laugh when people mention a sport shot, and then say " well why would I want to pay to bowl bad " really?? did anyone complain when it use to be the high average guy was 200 maybe 210?? ... and this was still in the Resin days..
here is a good story from a couple yrs ago lol... So in Traverse City Mi or Cadillac, they had a Jr bowler who was in his first yr of Adult bowling. And the only league he was in was a sport shot league.. Well his avg was right about 175? And all of the local tournaments he was tearing up, cuz he'd come in with the 175 avg... Or if they did do the sport adjustment, it was like 190.. But even then in all of the tournaments he bowled in, he would avg 230+, and he was still getting his handicap based off of 230..
Well all a lot of the adult bowlers bitched up a storm because of his average, lol...
when i first heard about this, first thing I said was - Well good for the kid wanting a challenge.. 2nd was - And why are the adults complaining??
the answer I got was, well he has the advantage of having a lower average and he's bowling on a tougher condition...
My response was... well those guys have the same opportunity as this kid, so its their own fault for not bowling in the league...
Now the guy telling the story totally agreed with me on every point i said lol.. He was just telling me what the other adults complained about lol..
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We all agree not everyone likes a challenge. Many do not know what a challange is for some reason or another and believe the bubble of which they bowl is reflective of every where else.
What ever the reasons we all have our own bars to measure our selves. I agree that bowling on tough conditions can really help develop your game if you choose to. It can also really hurt your game if you start doing things to create bad habbits ect.
Sport conditions are tough but when people are given the chance to consistantly bowl on it they learn, adapt, and get better. PBA players do it on tour patters. Amateurs that really do well at USBC nationals have plenty of practice on the shot prior to. It is an advantage. The more you bowl on tough conditions the better prepared you are for the next time.
Bowlers are fickle. The weak minded are always easy to spot.
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Too many wanna believe they are bowlers when in actuality many do NOT know how to bowl nor choose to learn how to bowl. This is why the upper echelon learn with much being placed on the psychological side of the game...not just buying a new bowling ball.
This website is a perfect example...too many wanting to know what the next great ball will be in reality there is a minute difference with the bowling balls...it is the mentally strong that know how to use the tools they choose...not just buy a new 'driver'.
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Everyone wants the lanes hard.........for everyone else.
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When you bowl well on tough shots/sport patterns, you feel like your game and the hard work you put into practicing was worth it.
When you struggle on the tough stuff, you feel total failure and it sucks.
I've done both over the years, and honestly the failure part hurts way more than the glory part.
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You do not need sport conditions to make the lanes tough. When you go practice you can create tough conditions when burning up lines, pushing oil ect. This is where I learned to play different parts of the lanes and have different releases.
In league when you have 10 guys on a pair and 7-8 play the same area and completely destroy the middle of the lane between 20-12 after the first game you can see where it becomes more challenging in a hurry. Some have never seen it before, some have. Depends on how much you bowl or practice and what adjustments you make when you see this. Knowing your equipment and options to move around it and play to score.
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THIS.
Too many wanna believe they are bowlers when in actuality many do NOT know how to bowl nor choose to learn how to bowl. This is why the upper echelon learn with much being placed on the psychological side of the game...not just buying a new bowling ball.
This website is a perfect example...too many wanting to know what the next great ball will be in reality there is a minute difference with the bowling balls...it is the mentally strong that know how to use the tools they choose...not just buy a new 'driver'.
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It is in threads like this where I am extremely appreciative we have industry experts who chime in. While reading, I kept going back to the three short comments by JustRico and thought, this guy gets it. Of course he does, he has been there, done that. Not saying others are wrong or don't have good comments, only JustRico's comments ring true to me more.
And to piggy back on something he said, the main issue I see is the increasing difference in difficulty between THS and sport shots. I used to run a monthly Team USA (WTBA) pattern tournament. We advertised locally, made announcements during leagues, even have a facebook page devoted to the tournament (Team USA Challenge). Yet every month we got maybe 15 bowlers max. Nothing we did improved the turnout. Could be location. Could be timing. Could be the better bowlers didn't want to participate due to ego/desire. I really wish I knew.
I still think USBC needs to have a THS requirement that brings it closer to sport shots to close the gap in perception. 12+:1 isn't cutting it. Maybe 8:1, hmmmmm.........
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I too find myself in agreement with JustRico.......
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Thanks for the kind words...I try to look at things logically, somewhat unbiased and I know at times it can come across as harsh...
As I posted, in regards to your last comments, bowlers don't tend to understand what equates to a good shot other than - hey I struck I must've thrown it good, no?
When I was a league/tournament coordinator in So Cal in the early 90's, I found scratch bowlers could/would find the best excuses for not supporting scratch events...you have the egos that will show up and bowl anything and the others that will come up with every excuse under the sun. It does get extremely frustrating.
This was our attempt when releasing Head Games, was in hopes that competitors could learn more about themselves, making themselves stronger for knowing themselves...yet most of the ones that should buy it won't as they tend to know it all...and never show up to bowl (:
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Exactly. You have to learn to be objective and honest about what's really going on or you'll never get anywhere. The comment about hey I struck, must have thrown it good is what kills me watching youth coaches on saturday mornings with kids. Yeah you don't want to discourage kids, but if you tell them good shot every time they strike, you're TEACHING them to equate striking with good shots, and creating a terrible foundation for them.
Thanks for the kind words...I try to look at things logically, somewhat unbiased and I know at times it can come across as harsh...
As I posted, in regards to your last comments, bowlers don't tend to understand what equates to a good shot other than - hey I struck I must've thrown it good, no?
When I was a league/tournament coordinator in So Cal in the early 90's, I found scratch bowlers could/would find the best excuses for not supporting scratch events...you have the egos that will show up and bowl anything and the others that will come up with every excuse under the sun. It does get extremely frustrating.
This was our attempt when releasing Head Games, was in hopes that competitors could learn more about themselves, making themselves stronger for knowing themselves...yet most of the ones that should buy it won't as they tend to know it all...and never show up to bowl (:
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When I'm teaching anyone, I try to get my students to forget about immediate results and realize a good shot over a bad one-understand the process...too many tend to make too many things too difficult. In basically everything we do, there is a path and a process...too many want to bypass the necessary work to get to higher levels...there are NO shortcuts in life. Any true accomplished athlete had worked their asses off to get where they are...as we write in the book...the elite find answers, the rest find excuses...
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Gizmo,
That reminds me of what I used to tell my son during his youth bowling days. When he was younger he equated a strike as a good ball. I would tell him that if he threw 3 shots and hit 3 different arrows and all of them were strikes (THS) i would tell him at least 2 of those strikes were off bad shots. Of course he never listened and I just left him alone and let him do his thing.
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So it's become rather obvious to me now that I need this book . .
When I'm teaching anyone, I try to get my students to forget about immediate results and realize a good shot over a bad one-understand the process...too many tend to make too many things too difficult. In basically everything we do, there is a path and a process...too many want to bypass the necessary work to get to higher levels...there are NO shortcuts in life. Any true accomplished athlete had worked their asses off to get where they are...as we write in the book...the elite find answers, the rest find excuses...
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Biggest myth on house shots is that they reward guys who spray the ball. It happens because it is possible to over swing a ball and get it back, or sometimes pull a shot and get it to hold. However anyone doing this very often is not averaging 235. A lot of guys averaging high are hooking the lane way more than they could on flatter patterns, but they are repeating shots better than they get credit for doing. The problem is that you cannot succesfully hook the entire lane on most tournament patterns, no matter how consistent your release, or how accurate your trajectory.
Also if you are watching the tour guys, look how straight they are all playing on the longer patterns. The longer patterns are becoming predominant and represent another distinct difference from house shots which typically buff not much longer than 40 feet. They were running the scorpion at 47 feet, and even the viper at over 40 feet in Vegas. Most really good bowlers don't pay nearly as much attention to the right to left dispersion of oil as they do the buff length when they look at a graph.
Minimizing axis rotation is now the key to winning out there. Almost reminds me of the game in the late 60's to early 70's, but with more speed and revs on the end over end release. Even Pete who had the most axis rotation on tour has cut his down a lot.
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It's not about "house shots or sport shots." In the end, the truly good bowlers learn the game, master the game and will score on any shot on a good day. Although, like any sport, the best gets beat from time to time.
Most league bowlers are interested in posting high averages, not in mastering the game.
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I think there is a big misperception that egos are what get damaged when THS bowlers hit flatter conditions. It is really more about having fun. Most bowlers do it for fun. They like to hook the ball, and like to throw strikes. Bowlers shouldn't look for sport leagues unless they want the challenge. Neither should those who do bowl in sport leagues put down guys who do just want to have fun. Most "stand left, throw right" guys are under no illusion that they can compete against top players on tournament patterns.
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A big +1 ……..
I've been bowling some of the better scratch leagues in SoCal for about 15 years. In all that time, interacting with literally hundreds of different bowlers, I'm hard pressed to identify these fictitious players who are driven by the ego of higher scoring.
In the journey to a 220+ THS average, most of these bowlers have tried their hand at the USBC Nationals, summer sport leagues, and occational local sport tourneys. They completely understand the difference between the two bowling worlds. They've made their respective decisions to either put in the significant time and effort to be a real tournament players, or make peace to be content with their weekly league bowling, have fun, and maybe make few bucks competing in brackets and side pots.
I think most of these discussions ultimately get down to some sport league players looking down on others who choose not to take the leap. This is the behavior I sometimes witness and it doesn't produce anything positive.
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I think the discussion is more on the psychology of bowlers and what I know of So Cal, which a limited amount of legitimate scratch leagues, scratch events struggle and scratch as it was in 80's and mid 90's is nonexistent.
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I think the discussion is more on the psychology of bowlers and what I know of So Cal, which a limited amount of legitimate scratch leagues, scratch events struggle and scratch as it was in 80's and mid 90's is nonexistent.
I didn't say SoCal scratch leagues exist on every corner. There are only a limited number, but they do exist, which is notable in a bowling world where large parts of the country have none at all.
My point is that the 'psychology' of these bowlers is generally one of realism. For those who do try to compete at the competitive tournament level, the psychology of success is a different subject. Your new book addresses it well.
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Let me rephrase due to the mindset of many of the so-called scratch bowlers in So-Cal it has led to the demise of scratch bowling as a whole and it's sad...on Monday nights alone there were 580 scratch bowlers a across 3 bowling centers in the LA area...now maybe half a dozen with limited fields...sad to say the least.
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In the Northwest area of LA there are currently about 200+ scratch league participants across 4 centers that I'm familiar with. When looking at the question of bowling psychology in THS vs Sport, this is the group I look at for evaluation. The typical handicap league bowler hasn't achieved any real scoring success on the THS, so it's hard to make any psychological evaluations based on experiences they might have on sport.
As far as the 'so called' scratch bowlers bowlers in SoCal, I'll leave the evaluation of their respective skills to others. The past is the past. I can only do my part by participating and bowling in local tournament events when I can.