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Author Topic: The all new "Kamino" layout  (Read 7728 times)

Gizmo823

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The all new "Kamino" layout
« on: October 02, 2013, 09:17:47 AM »
This was developed just last night by my manager and I. It's an inside joke, but it's kinda funny. So we've got all these people around here getting crazy about dual angle drills. Beforehand when we've tried to explain it, we've gotten blank stares, blinking, and told, "Oh I don't get all that technical stuff, I'll let you handle it." Now, however, after getting more into it themselves, they're all about it. They have absolutely no clue what the numbers mean, and a lot of people are going around with this sheet that has generic layouts for generic wide pap ranges that don't take ball speed, rev rate, axis tilt, lane surface, lane condition, ball choice or ball specs into account. They just see that this layout says, "late backend," decide that's what they want, and want us to stick hard to the numbers. When we say, "well, because of your speed/rev rate, we should really adjust these numbers if that's the reaction you want." Then because they don't understand how the numbers work or what they mean, they blink some more and say, "well but this sheet says these numbers will give me that reaction, so just use these numbers."

So we've been kidding between ourselves that "if it's not on the sheet, it doesn't exist!" Like in Star Wars Attack of the Clones when Obi-Wan was looking for the planet that wasn't on the map and the librarian said rather definitively, "If it's not on our maps, it doesn't exist." So we are calling every layout that isn't on the generic layout sheet a "Kamino" layout, after the planet that Obi-Wan eventually found. I'll be using a Kamino on my next ball, matter of fact . .
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

 

Armourboy

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Re: The all new "Kamino" layout
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2013, 06:09:57 AM »
Not gonna lie, I know nothing about drilling a ball, so I don't pretend too. I tell him what I'm looking to do with it, he makes suggestions and we go with it. Now I am beginning to learn what kind of reaction I do like so that helps a ton.

On a side note I'm kicking myself for not using my El Nino 2000 back when I was in leagues, the damn thing just rolls so damn smooth for me. Oh to be younger and less dumb lol   

Dogtown

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Re: The all new "Kamino" layout
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2013, 08:01:15 AM »
I tell everyone, buy a ball made for the reaction you are looking for.  The drilling will only fine tune what the ball is capable of doing. 

Surface is the biggest key.

Gizmo823

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Re: The all new "Kamino" layout
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2013, 09:20:35 AM »
This is why I generally don't deviate from certain layouts much.  I use ball selection for my reaction differences, not wild layouts.  I've found for myself at the house I bowl at that 65x4.5x35 gives me a reaction that I really like, so I'll stay pretty close to that and just buy different balls.  Naturally if you're bowling on more difficult conditions, your layouts will have to cover a much wider range, but if you're bowling on the same shot consistently, I don't see much reason to play too much with layouts, when ball design and surface prep will dominate layout. 

I tell everyone, buy a ball made for the reaction you are looking for.  The drilling will only fine tune what the ball is capable of doing. 

Surface is the biggest key.
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

trash heap

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Re: The all new "Kamino" layout
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2013, 03:56:01 PM »
So we've been kidding between ourselves that "if it's not on the sheet, it doesn't exist!" Like in Star Wars Attack of the Clones when Obi-Wan was looking for the planet that wasn't on the map and the librarian said rather definitively, "If it's not on our maps, it doesn't exist." So we are calling every layout that isn't on the generic layout sheet a "Kamino" layout, after the planet that Obi-Wan eventually found. I'll be using a Kamino on my next ball, matter of fact . .

Now wait a minute. If we are going by the Star Wars theme here, you got to pull it all together.

1st: What was on Kamino: Very intellegent beings able to clone humans.
2nd: A very EVIL JEDI pays these guys to build him a Clone Army.
3rd: A very GOOD JEDI discovers the army.
4th: This CLONE ARMY Kicks A$$ at the end of the movie.

Now lets put it together. The Kamino Layout would be something devised by some BAD dude, only be discovered by someone else, who then uses it to destroy all other competition in bowling.

DRILL ME ONE UP!!!!  ;D

Talkin' Trash!

Gizmo823

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Re: The all new "Kamino" layout
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2013, 03:59:55 PM »
Lol even better!  We weren't going quite that deep, just with the idea that there's some pretty cool stuff off the radar . . but I like this more!

So we've been kidding between ourselves that "if it's not on the sheet, it doesn't exist!" Like in Star Wars Attack of the Clones when Obi-Wan was looking for the planet that wasn't on the map and the librarian said rather definitively, "If it's not on our maps, it doesn't exist." So we are calling every layout that isn't on the generic layout sheet a "Kamino" layout, after the planet that Obi-Wan eventually found. I'll be using a Kamino on my next ball, matter of fact . .

Now wait a minute. If we are going by the Star Wars theme here, you got to pull it all together.

1st: What was on Kamino: Very intellegent beings able to clone humans.
2nd: A very EVIL JEDI pays these guys to build him a Clone Army.
3rd: A very GOOD JEDI discovers the army.
4th: This CLONE ARMY Kicks A$$ at the end of the movie.

Now lets put it together. The Kamino Layout would be something devised by some BAD dude, only be discovered by someone else, who then uses it to destroy all other competition in bowling.

DRILL ME ONE UP!!!!  ;D
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

Armourboy

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Re: The all new "Kamino" layout
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2013, 05:52:45 AM »
So we've been kidding between ourselves that "if it's not on the sheet, it doesn't exist!" Like in Star Wars Attack of the Clones when Obi-Wan was looking for the planet that wasn't on the map and the librarian said rather definitively, "If it's not on our maps, it doesn't exist." So we are calling every layout that isn't on the generic layout sheet a "Kamino" layout, after the planet that Obi-Wan eventually found. I'll be using a Kamino on my next ball, matter of fact . .

Now wait a minute. If we are going by the Star Wars theme here, you got to pull it all together.

1st: What was on Kamino: Very intellegent beings able to clone humans.
2nd: A very EVIL JEDI pays these guys to build him a Clone Army.
3rd: A very GOOD JEDI discovers the army.
4th: This CLONE ARMY Kicks A$$ at the end of the movie.

Now lets put it together. The Kamino Layout would be something devised by some BAD dude, only be discovered by someone else, who then uses it to destroy all other competition in bowling.

DRILL ME ONE UP!!!!  ;D

Well except the evil jedi wasn't a jedi at all but a Sith Lord, and he's not really Sith but the second generation of Sith that.... ah crap there I go again.  ;D

Doug Sterner

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Re: The all new "Kamino" layout
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2013, 08:11:18 PM »
A long time ago in a pro shop in upstate NY,  I learned to never ask a bowler what they want the ball to do....the answer is always the same..."go long and hook."

We run a 42 foot walled up shot on 50 year old wood lanes with a 12:1 inside to outside ratio....a talented bowler can make a White Dot go long and hook.

I love the guy that owns out center...best type of customer..."hey Doug, I need a new ball...get me whatever you think I need."

But seriously what I have started doing is to tell the customer I will not even discuss ball or layout choice until they finish the sentence (madlib style)

"I want a ball that will ________more/less/earlier/ later than my ____________  but less/more/later/earlier  than my __________ on ____________ (lane condition)."

This gives me a frame of reference....also tells me if the bowler has a clue what he's talking about.

Makes sense.....
I want a ball that finishes later than my HyRoad but earlier than my Ascent Pearl on our 40' christmas tree pattern on synthetics.

Nonsense (but nonetheless one I have heard)...
I want a dull ball that goes longer and finishes harder than my Wrecker but hooks more than my Defiant on heavy oil.
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY

Proud Member of the NRA
Fighting to uphold the Constitution of the U.S.

Gizmo823

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Re: The all new "Kamino" layout
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2013, 07:47:47 AM »
Good points . . and I think I'm finally to the point where I've got a good grasp on the concept of how you have to run a shop.  Yeah the guys that trust you completely are the best kind, I've got a couple buddies like that.  Then there are the people that think they know everything, and then there are the people in the middle that I think are the worst.  At least with the know it alls that dictate everything you do, there's no liability there.  If it sucks, it's completely on them.  The ones in the middle don't know what they need and don't know how to explain it right, whether they're on their way to being a know it all or if they're just ignorant.  The hardest part is when you try to explain that what they think they want isn't really what they want . .

A long time ago in a pro shop in upstate NY,  I learned to never ask a bowler what they want the ball to do....the answer is always the same..."go long and hook."

We run a 42 foot walled up shot on 50 year old wood lanes with a 12:1 inside to outside ratio....a talented bowler can make a White Dot go long and hook.

I love the guy that owns out center...best type of customer..."hey Doug, I need a new ball...get me whatever you think I need."

But seriously what I have started doing is to tell the customer I will not even discuss ball or layout choice until they finish the sentence (madlib style)

"I want a ball that will ________more/less/earlier/ later than my ____________  but less/more/later/earlier  than my __________ on ____________ (lane condition)."

This gives me a frame of reference....also tells me if the bowler has a clue what he's talking about.

Makes sense.....
I want a ball that finishes later than my HyRoad but earlier than my Ascent Pearl on our 40' christmas tree pattern on synthetics.

Nonsense (but nonetheless one I have heard)...
I want a dull ball that goes longer and finishes harder than my Wrecker but hooks more than my Defiant on heavy oil.
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

Doug Sterner

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Re: The all new "Kamino" layout
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2013, 09:30:26 AM »
I have gone one step further on occasion. I have actually had the customer sign the drill sheet I fill out and have the statement at the bottom: "Doug has advised me that this is not the best layout/ball combination for me but its what I want so of it doesn't work, its all on me."

That tends to make them think a bit sometimes.....
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY

Proud Member of the NRA
Fighting to uphold the Constitution of the U.S.

Gizmo823

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Re: The all new "Kamino" layout
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2013, 10:58:31 AM »
Not a bad idea at all given what we've recently gone through . .

I have gone one step further on occasion. I have actually had the customer sign the drill sheet I fill out and have the statement at the bottom: "Doug has advised me that this is not the best layout/ball combination for me but its what I want so of it doesn't work, its all on me."

That tends to make them think a bit sometimes.....
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

Good Times Good Times

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Re: The all new "Kamino" layout
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2013, 11:16:39 AM »
I have gone one step further on occasion. I have actually had the customer sign the drill sheet I fill out and have the statement at the bottom: "Doug has advised me that this is not the best layout/ball combination for me but its what I want so of it doesn't work, its all on me."

That tends to make them think a bit sometimes.....

That's actually a GREAT idea!  I like it.
GTx2

The Gaz

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Re: The all new "Kamino" layout
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2013, 03:57:14 PM »
As one of those people who have no clue about ball drilling and is thinking about purchasing my second ball, how do I go about saying I want a more aggressive backend without sounding like one of those jackasses that says I want a more aggressive backend?



Impending Doom

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Re: The all new "Kamino" layout
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2013, 05:14:11 PM »
This layout can only be applied to Brunswick, DV8, and newer Radical pieces.

They call it... El Kamino!

*ducks*

itsallaboutme

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Re: The all new "Kamino" layout
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2013, 06:33:45 AM »
The Gaz- you can't

99 times out of 100 the people that come in to a pro shop asking for that reaction do not have the rotation or revolutions to create it.

Gizmo823

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Re: The all new "Kamino" layout
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2013, 08:22:35 AM »
Yeah, this correct.  You can still tell your driller you'd like to improve your backend reaction, but be open to how he might help, might not be a ball issue.

 
The Gaz- you can't

99 times out of 100 the people that come in to a pro shop asking for that reaction do not have the rotation or revolutions to create it.
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?