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Author Topic: Solid 10's on a "raised" deck  (Read 3123 times)

no300yet

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Solid 10's on a "raised" deck
« on: October 20, 2008, 05:13:47 PM »
Ever since my house had new synthetic lanes installed I have had a tough time kicking out the 10 pin and I did not know why. The other night I was denied of a 300 game by 2 weak/ringing 10's.

Today I practiced with a guy who works at the alley and he pointed out since they did "not" remove the old wood lanes but just laid the 1 inch thick new surface on top, the gutters are actually "deeper". That's why the messenger has a harder time to jump up and trip the 10.

What will help most in this situation? Doesn't USBC have specs for gutter depth?

Thanks!

 

tenpin477

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Re: Solid 10's on a "raised" deck
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2008, 01:53:16 AM »
I think USBC specs are for minimum gutter depth, not maximum. Don't quote me though.

Aloarjr810

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Re: Solid 10's on a "raised" deck
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2008, 06:54:54 AM »
The best way to help is to practice on tripping the ten pin properly.Not depending on a pin jumping up out of the gutter and tripping it. A deeper gutter doesn't have anything to do with weak or ringing 10's.


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Edited on 10/21/2008 6:55 AM
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Dan Belcher

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Re: Solid 10's on a "raised" deck
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2008, 08:04:52 AM »
I know what you mean, I bowl in a house on Saturday nights with poor carry, where the 6 pin just falls flat in the gutter and doesn't bounce out very easily.  It's also very easy to leave swisher 7s in that house for the same reasons.  This is a lot more representative in my opinion of how bowling should be.  The carry has gotten too easy at many houses nowadays.  The key for me on conditions like this is to pay attention to my breakpoint in relationship to how long the ball is going before it begins to hook.  Putting the ball too far away from the headpin at the breakpoint will create lots of problems with ringing 10 pins and flat 7s, just as putting it too far inside will result in lots of flat 10s and flat 7s.  Also, since you're on new synthetic lanes, you may need a different ball roll than you had on the wood lanes.  My carry percentage is very, very high on synthetic lanes when I focus more on tumbling the ball and less on trying to create backend movement.  The opposite holds true for me on wood lanes where I need to create some length and backend reaction.

Crankenstein300

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Re: Solid 10's on a "raised" deck
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2008, 11:43:16 AM »
It wouldn't matter unless they messed with the pin deck height in relation to the gutters or vice versa. Maybe the reaction on the synthetics give you a different entry angle?

pin-chaser

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Re: Solid 10's on a "raised" deck
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2008, 12:20:07 PM »
Gutter depth is important for cary for flatter entry angles. However with todays equipment you can get wider entry angles which tend to eliminate the flat tens.






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Kid Jete

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Re: Solid 10's on a "raised" deck
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2008, 02:58:27 PM »
You missed a 300 because you didn't trip the 10 twice in a single game?  Doesn't sounds to me like you are having carry issues.

Kid Jete

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Re: Solid 10's on a "raised" deck
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2008, 03:07:28 PM »
quote:
exactly. sounds more like two BAD SHOTS to me....

quote:
You missed a 300 because you didn't trip the 10 twice in a single game?  Doesn't sounds to me like you are having carry issues.

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Yup a little tugsy wugsy in the oil will give ya a couple flat tens lol.

Krakken

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Re: Solid 10's on a "raised" deck
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2008, 03:12:29 PM »
quote:
The best way to help is to practice on tripping the ten pin properly.Not depending on a pin jumping up out of the gutter and tripping it. A deeper gutter doesn't have anything to do with weak or ringing 10's.


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Aloarjr810
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Edited on 10/21/2008 6:55 AM


Actually a deeper gutter does have a lot to do with not tripping out the weak 10.  6 pin gets hung up in there and doesn't make it out to trip the 10.  Now, having said that, a better entry angle would fix it, but if the gutter is outside USBC specs then that is a problem.  From what he said about the guy that works there, they are probably not between the alloted specs and need to be fixed.
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Aloarjr810

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Re: Solid 10's on a "raised" deck
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2008, 09:37:07 PM »
quote:
quote:
The best way to help is to practice on tripping the ten pin properly.Not depending on a pin jumping up out of the gutter and tripping it. A deeper gutter doesn't have anything to do with weak or ringing 10's.


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Aloarjr810
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Click For My Grip

Edited on 10/21/2008 6:55 AM


Actually a deeper gutter does have a lot to do with not tripping out the weak 10.  6 pin gets hung up in there and doesn't make it out to trip the 10.  Now, having said that, a better entry angle would fix it, but if the gutter is outside USBC specs then that is a problem.  From what he said about the guy that works there, they are probably not between the alloted specs and need to be fixed.
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The point I was making is that on a good strike shot. You shouldn't have to depend on pins coming out of the gutter or rebounding off the kickbacks to make the strike.
If you leave a weak ten and a pin comes out of the gutter and taps it down thats great. But it was still a bad hit.

Now thats not to say the the gutter should be out of spec. Just that the gutter didn't cause a bad hit that left a ten in the first place. It just might not have given any extra help.
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no300yet

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Re: Solid 10's on a "raised" deck
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2008, 01:38:26 AM »
OK! You guys are very helpful, thank s a lot!

First of all, KWPBA, I'll go and ask if they actually "shimmed" the gutters to compensate for the raised deck.

I am not actually having a "carry" issue other than more 10 pins than before. Sometimes like 3 in a row. I actually talked to a guy in my league who does a much better job at carrying the 10( but his ball is 2 pounds heavier) and he told me to "keep the hand below the ball more". He said that would make the ball go a little longer before making the turn and retain more energy. He said my hand rotated too far to the top of the ball. I tried that and it seemed to help at least 50%.

The same guy also told me a university conducted a study by increasing and decreasing the gutter depth by 1/2 inch. The result was something like a 23 pins difference( among bowlers with 185 to 195 average, as far as I can remember). Again, this is just something that I was told.

Of course it's mostly operator error and of course the "best" is to practice until I can make a "dead flush" hit every shot. I don't mean to "depend" on a pin jumping up to trip the 10. But to bowl a perfect game quite often you have to get "some" help............a "perfect" game does not mean 12 "perfect" shots, does it?

Anyway, thanks again everyone!