BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: icewall on January 18, 2009, 02:29:27 AM
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ever since i started bowling with finger tips maybe 10 - 12 years ago i have used grips. but one of the problems i developed was turning my wrist early which was pointed out to me by my new driller tommy jordan.
the other problem is i felt as if there was no penalty for lifting early or pulling my shots as there was virtually no feed back, i just cant feel when im trying to "rip the cover" off the ball.
so I asked about no grips and he said fine lets try it. he also made the holes pretty sharp and i liked that idea since im trying to stop from grabbing at the release and its working. now im able to stay behind the ball and lift naturally with a flowing follow thru. what im wondering is two things:
should I be concerned with the loss of revs and area i lost? which doesnt bother me consistency does and ive only bowled 6 games so far so im not sure yet on that... trying to get hand positions down
and
how do most people with no grips keep the fingers tight so they can increase lift? grip tape? or just snug them up with various pieces of white tape
I currently use white tape on the bottom of the finger holes and it seems to work well, im just trying to be consistent... I could care less about revs... im just looking to stay in the ball longer with my fingers to get the same rotation and revs every time (or as close to as possible)
I realize that everyone is different but i think im just trying to toss around ideas and see what everyone else does. btw my fingers were ovaled
ball is currently at
fingers:
3/8 away 0 pitch - 3/8 away 0 pitch
thumb:
0 away 0 pitch
span is 4 1/2 to the middle finger
4 5/8 to the ring
and I wear turbo mint green color on my thumb... in case that seems like a little more forward pitch then you might normally drill for my hand size.
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Visionary Test Staff 08/09
all visionary this year
blurple
ogre ss
glad.
glad. pearl
Edited on 1/18/2009 11:42 AM
Edited on 1/18/2009 11:43 AM
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I use a mixture of balls with finger inserts and without. I recently went to using no inserts on my new balls that are drilled up but on any balls that I buy used, I usually just replace the inserts with my own preferred type, plus my older balls all have finger inserts so that is why I am using both with and without. So far, I am not really noticing any differences but I am beginning to prefer without because I don't have to worry about the variable factor of wearing out an insert. New inserts feel tackier and worn inserts are very smooth.
On my balls without, I am putting small grooves on the gripping side of the finger holes using a small hand held tool that I purchased many years ago for my old rubber balls. It looks like a small file that has been grooved on one side. Let's see if I can 'draw' this in ASCII format:
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Edited: For some reason it is not showing all of the symbols after it did show up in Preview mode okay. I will try another way and see if it works better.
At the bottom end, it slides into a plastic handle that can be adjusted and locked to give various depths inside the finger holes.
I don't worry about having the finger holes too tight because of an accident that I had many years ago when I was experimenting with tight finger holes. The ball hung onto my fingers and I thought that I had broken them because of the pain and how long it lasted. Since then, I figure that as long as I can keep firm pressure on the ball with my fingers and a straight wrist, good enough.
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I am the Sgt Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
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Edited on 1/18/2009 1:08 PM
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I have also started drilling my equipment with no grips. I was wearing them out like clockwork. I have not lost many revs at all unless I miss hit the ball..I started putting 2 piece of green amf tape in my fingers and it give me almost the same feel and softness of having grips now..
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Well, for me, I use Finger tape, ViseGrip yellow, and Turbo 2n1 green. But I do that so my fingers dont end up getting torn up. Which was the reason why i switched from Inserts to no-inserts. on my ring finger at the first knuckle, i would tear the skin, basically looked like i was cutting myself.
Well for a while the switch helped alot, but the problem came back, so i went with the finger tape. And have no problems since 2002 i think lol.
As for the finger holes staying tight, I have no problems since i use the finger tape. But I do love keeping the fingers sharp as hell, i think i get more revs without inserts than i did with, plus my release is alot smoother too.
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" Lift Your Skirt Grab Your Balls and Learn How to Bowl " http://coolluvr4u1976.bowlspace.com/
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you said your finger pitches were 3/8ths away and 0. Whats the 0 referring to?
If it is referring to side pitch I would think your holes hit at the bottom??
maybe?
I drill my stuff a bit tight and then oval the tops out with my handy dandy dremel tool. ones that end up big I usually cut a piece of white tape and put in the grip side. (going to play with that the next time I practice.)
Also may try the different tape out there to see if that makes a difference.
I get out of the ball cleaner without inserts, therefore I get just about the same amount of revs on the ball.
Check and see if briancr90? has the little snippet I wrote him when he asked about pitches and no inserts. He thought it was informative.
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FAILURE IS FEEDBACK. AND FEEDBACK IS THE BREAKFAST OF CHAMPIONS THAT GOT DIGESTED!
Ten pin?????? Where?? I throw a BUZZSAW there is NUTTIN left on the deck...
Proud MEMBER of the FOS!!
Member of the FOS, if there happens to be a 9 pin standing just toss a saw and cut it down~~!
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Buzzhead:
If you work your fingers out to become slightly oval by hand and they end up bigger and you use tape grip side would that not increase your span length?
Icewall:
0 pitch on both your fingers, you must have very flexible joints! Its impossible to comment without seeing your hand as a pro shop operator but I always reccomend that you drill your finger holes bigger and wrap them with vise/turbo tape for protection espescially if you are not using much bevel.
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I work only the sides out, and the MOST tape I have ever had to put in, not because of working out the fingerhole, but because of weightloss was 2 pieces.
I was getting ready to reference the 0 pitch when and if he responded that it was indeed 0 away from thumb.
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FAILURE IS FEEDBACK. AND FEEDBACK IS THE BREAKFAST OF CHAMPIONS THAT GOT DIGESTED!
Ten pin?????? Where?? I throw a BUZZSAW there is NUTTIN left on the deck...
Proud MEMBER of the FOS!!
Member of the FOS, if there happens to be a 9 pin standing just toss a saw and cut it down~~!
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the fingers are indeed 3/8 away from each other if away is the correct term. so the left would be drilled to the left I assume. if it was the other way it would be obvious and they indeed would be drilled into each other.
and 0 pitch... at least thats what my driller wrote down and it feels that way.
i do get out of the ball VERY clean now. its so different from using vacu grips that its amazing. he ovaled the fingers by hand and they are just a tad large but i asked him to do this since i swell. I have been using 1 piece of white tape cut to the length of my finger that goes in the ball and its been pretty good.
I just feel like if i get very relaxed at the bottom of the swing it just absolutely flies off my hand and lose rotation... but like i said its a big change in my grip so im getting used to it and its only been 6 games.
I also left them i tad big so i could use tape if I want. O and the fingers were left semi sharp... for himself he just drills and leaves no bevel at all!
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Visionary Test Staff 08/09
all visionary this year
blurple
ogre ss
glad.
glad. pearl
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im not sure what it is but I must have flexible joints as anytime i go to a driller that goes by the "standards" the ball just flies off of my hand. but i really like this driller and it takes me 45 minutes just to get to him, I think it is worth it as he really listens.
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Visionary Test Staff 08/09
all visionary this year
blurple
ogre ss
glad.
glad. pearl
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now all i need is to get him to drill my stuff from the start so i dont have all these balls drilled leverage... uhhhhh! so sick of having a driller see a diff of .030 and drilling it to hook off of my hand.
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Visionary Test Staff 08/09
all visionary this year
blurple
ogre ss
glad.
glad. pearl
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not saying your pitches are not right but very very few people have fingers flexible enough to have 0 pitch. (as far as fingers go)
I would watch closely for developing fingertip burn.... if you are getting brown fingers there is definately not enough away (from palm) pitch in the finger holes.
3/8ths side to side is about standard around here.
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FAILURE IS FEEDBACK. AND FEEDBACK IS THE BREAKFAST OF CHAMPIONS THAT GOT DIGESTED!
Ten pin?????? Where?? I throw a BUZZSAW there is NUTTIN left on the deck...
Proud MEMBER of the FOS!!
Member of the FOS, if there happens to be a 9 pin standing just toss a saw and cut it down~~!
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quote:
not saying your pitches are not right but very very few people have fingers flexible enough to have 0 pitch. (as far as fingers go)
I would watch closely for developing fingertip burn.... if you are getting brown fingers there is definately not enough away (from palm) pitch in the finger holes.
3/8ths side to side is about standard around here.
--------------------
FAILURE IS FEEDBACK. AND FEEDBACK IS THE BREAKFAST OF CHAMPIONS THAT GOT DIGESTED!
Ten pin?????? Where?? I throw a BUZZSAW there is NUTTIN left on the deck...
Proud MEMBER of the FOS!!
Member of the FOS, if there happens to be a 9 pin standing just toss a saw and cut it down~~!
thanks thats good to know! but i do remember when I had grips i tried ovals, semi oval, and lifts and never experienced a problem. although the lifts did burn my ring finger but it was slightly and never left a mark on my finger and i have no clue what the pitch was on the fingers before lifts.
and here i was thinking I could go with more pitch HAHAH LMAO! well i think my next step is more practice and possibly some finger tape. but at least for the first time ever i have a lot of confidence in my grip.
o and BTW i went from 3/8 reverse on the thumb round, to oval to 1/4 reverse to 1/8 rev. to 0 pitch to 3/8 forward to 1/4 forward and now 0 lol my god i tried a lot of pitches but that was because the drillers by me just drill to put you out the door. and i had to figure out what worked to keep the ball on my hand.
(keep in mind those pitches are from about 12 years up until now so i didnt just go crazy one day HAHA) AND i dont know where my spans were moved to... point is i have tried different things so now i know what works.
NOW I know that this driller watched me bowl and said your turning your wrist early and why I wanted forward pitch to lock it onto my thumb... basically a bandaid and not a solution.
the new guy I use really cares and let me ask anything i wanted. im very happy with the fit and i feel like he pretty much nailed it.
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Visionary Test Staff 08/09
all visionary this year
blurple
ogre ss
glad.
glad. pearl
Edited on 1/19/2009 3:21 PM
Edited on 1/19/2009 3:27 PM
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you may not have gotten the burn or broken blood vessel in you finger nail with grips becaause they are so soft.. lifts and power life have a 1/4 forward pitch I think... and he's right most people finger pitches are not zero.
quote:
quote:
not saying your pitches are not right but very very few people have fingers flexible enough to have 0 pitch. (as far as fingers go)
I would watch closely for developing fingertip burn.... if you are getting brown fingers there is definately not enough away (from palm) pitch in the finger holes.
3/8ths side to side is about standard around here.
--------------------
FAILURE IS FEEDBACK. AND FEEDBACK IS THE BREAKFAST OF CHAMPIONS THAT GOT DIGESTED!
Ten pin?????? Where?? I throw a BUZZSAW there is NUTTIN left on the deck...
Proud MEMBER of the FOS!!
Member of the FOS, if there happens to be a 9 pin standing just toss a saw and cut it down~~!
thanks thats good to know! but i do remember when I had grips i tried ovals, semi oval, and lifts and never experienced a problem. although the lifts did burn my ring finger but it was slightly and never left a mark on my finger and i have no clue what the pitch was on the fingers before lifts.
and here i was thinking I could go with more pitch HAHAH LMAO! well i think my next step is more practice and possibly some finger tape. but at least for the first time ever i have a lot of confidence in my grip.
o and BTW i went from 3/8 reverse on the thumb round, to oval to 1/4 reverse to 1/8 rev. to 0 pitch to 3/8 forward to 1/4 forward and now 0 lol my god i tried a lot of pitches but that was because the drillers by me just drill to put you out the door. and i had to figure out what worked to keep the ball on my hand.
(keep in mind those pitches are from about 12 years up until now so i didnt just go crazy one day HAHA) AND i dont know where my spans were moved to... point is i have tried different things so now i know what works.
NOW I know that this driller watched me bowl and said your turning your wrist early and why I wanted forward pitch to lock it onto my thumb... basically a bandaid and not a solution.
the new guy I use really cares and let me ask anything i wanted. im very happy with the fit and i feel like he pretty much nailed it.
--------------------
Visionary Test Staff 08/09
all visionary this year
blurple
ogre ss
glad.
glad. pearl
Edited on 1/19/2009 3:21 PM
Edited on 1/19/2009 3:27 PM
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quote:
you may not have gotten the burn or broken blood vessel in you finger nail with grips becaause they are so soft.. lifts and power life have a 1/4 forward pitch I think... and he's right most people finger pitches are not zero.
true but it was very comfortable for the 6 games i bowled. so it seems to be ok for me. but at least i know that the pitch is more then what most would have.
I just checked the balls pitches and it is indeed 0 pitch in the fingers and 3/8's of pitch away from each finger. I wanted to be sure that it wasnt 3/8 reverse pitch but i was right its 0.
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Visionary Test Staff 08/09
all visionary this year
blurple
ogre ss
glad.
glad. pearl
Edited on 1/19/2009 5:14 PM