Author Topic: Pushaway advice (long rant) (Read 1800 times)

baltimora · « **on:** July 15, 2008, 03:45:49 AM »

My scores have been related to how clean backends and how dry the outside were. A little extra oil neutralized me. I have a problem not staying behind ball and with a lack of leverage. I assumed since I am overweight and don't bend well that this was the cause on my lack of revs. A video of me showed I was on the side of ball by the time I was in downswing. A good bowler in my area suggested pushing the ball away to left instead of straight. All of a sudden I am able to get ball to right and lift through the ball to get quite a bit of hook. Now I have to tone it down and be accurate. Can someone explain to me how pushing off to left suddenly gave me revs. I had 2 strikes off 1 board in practice. I stood there like an idiot not believing my eyes. Now this is on THS but someone else watched & couldn't believe it was me he was seeing. Granted I had some wild shots like a fastball pitcher off his game. But the difference was huge.
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MI 2 AZ · « **Reply #1 on:** July 15, 2008, 12:00:36 PM »

I am probably wrong in all of this, but is it possible that during your normal pushaway and backswing you had to have the ball clear your hips so your elbow either rotated or slightly cocked, causing your wrist to rotate inward? This wrist position too early would cause loss of revs. By pushing away to the left, your armswing would clear the hips without having the wrist rotate inward, because of the angle off to the right during the downswing, so your wrist is now in a stronger position to impart revs.

I am sure you will get some better theories from others on this site.

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BowlingWolf · « **Reply #2 on:** July 15, 2008, 12:11:17 PM »

You mention that you are overweight. It could be that because when you pushed the ball out straight in front of you, you might not be getting the ball in the right part of your hand at the backswing (I haven't seen you bowl, so this is just a guess).

Typically when one pushes the ball to the left (for a right-hander), the arm will swing to the outside of the body (easily clearing a slightly larger girth), which enables a freer swing and creates a ball placement on the palm that is ideal for leverage at the release point, since usually the arm will self-adjust and the release is near/close to the ankle if timing is pretty good, then the thumb will clear right prior to the ball passing the ankle, which causes the weight of the ball to shift naturally to the fingers, which will cause a leveraged release and the necessary heavy roll imparted by the fingers without any undue unnatural force.

I mention the above after having watched many a good heavy bowler's execution.
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BowlingWolf

se7en · « **Reply #3 on:** July 15, 2008, 12:32:32 PM »

You went from being on the side of the ball -- which is almost like suit-casing it -- to being in a position of strength in regards to release by being able to stay behind the ball with the middle/ring fingers around 6-8 oclock.

My theory anyway. I had the same problem getting inside the ball (do you have a callus on the inside of your thumb as a result?)

I watched a regional pro here who is usually within 4 lanes of my team on league that has the most incredible release and physical game. I started to try to replicate his release and picked up a sick amount of revs. It's not easy to do consistently, but I have all summer to work it out

My callus problems have almost gone away and I picked up almost a mile per hour (from 15.5 to 16.5+) since I focus more on keeping my swing in line and not looping it around behind my back.
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Edited on 7/15/2008 12:34 PM

charlest · « **Reply #4 on:** July 15, 2008, 01:53:10 PM »

quote:
You mention that you are overweight. It could be that because when you pushed the ball out straight in front of you, you might not be getting the ball in the right part of your hand at the backswing (I haven't seen you bowl, so this is just a guess).

Typically when one pushes the ball to the left (for a right-hander), the arm will swing to the outside of the body (easily clearing a slightly larger girth), which enables a freer swing and creates a ball placement on the palm that is ideal for leverage at the release point, since usually the arm will self-adjust and the release is near/close to the ankle if timing is pretty good, then the thumb will clear right prior to the ball passing the ankle, which causes the weight of the ball to shift naturally to the fingers, which will cause a leveraged release and the necessary heavy roll imparted by the fingers without any undue unnatural force.

I mention the above after having watched many a good heavy bowler's execution.
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Regards,
BowlingWolf

I don't know about this. I am fairly large but if I push the ball to the left onthe pushaway, then that ball will go left of target 99 times out of 100. I need to push the ball to the target to get the armswing to "pendulum" towards the target.

If you push the ball to the left, and the back swing is to the right, to clear his hips, the forward swing will be back to the left UNDER NORMAL CONDITIONS. If baltimora is now swinging it to right towards target, then there an extra missing step that has not been described: how to get the ball to swing towards the target.

I think this solution is something specific to the way baltimora swings the ball and his armswing itself. I'd be very hesitant about applying to others.
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pin-chaser · « **Reply #5 on:** July 15, 2008, 02:09:42 PM »

Here is my answer....

A loop in your swing... By pushing the ball left the ball swings back to the right then loops backup left at the top of the swing and follows through back to the right. This created an "inside out swing" ie... the elbow and hand behind the ball thus increase his leverage at the line by improving the position closed to his feet. I use this sometime when I have to get very deep... it inside 5th arrow. This does work especially well for bigger people since getting around the waste is tougher.

Think of the yellow ribbon on cars today to support the war. It starts left, loops in the back and then swings right.

Charlest is also correct in that he has trained his armswing to follow the same path as his pushaway. But todays bowlers dont... look at Michael Fagan.. always pushes his ball inside his target line.
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Madiballz23 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 15, 2008, 02:18:43 PM »

I think Pin-chaser has the idea.

In my neck of the woods, we call it a Figure 8 swing. Push it inside, swing the arm back out to the right, it starts to come back left toward the top of the swing and then push it out to the right as you are swinging through. The Action back to the left at the top of the backswing forces your hand more open so that when you swing it forward and to the right your hand it behind the ball and the figure 8 motion allows you to come around the ball imparting more revs. I've seen numerous people do it. Just takes some practice to get used to it.
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baltimora · « **Reply #7 on:** July 15, 2008, 03:55:20 PM »

se7en yes i do get a callus. i am just amazed that i went from this starting behind ball and still suitcasing it albeit pretty accurately to now having to cut back on how much i am turning the ball. i guess it is a figure 8. as much as i loathe to hear randy p say it "it is like going out for a burger and fries and coming back with a steak and baked potato". now i have more turn i need to reharness (is that a word?) the accuracy. i am enjoying a little bit of revs even if i am no wes malott ha ha.
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baltimora · « **Reply #8 on:** July 15, 2008, 03:59:41 PM »

and yes charlest i cannot explain it but the ball is going to right almost every time where i can utilize the dry better along with better turn i impart. it is the first time ever i have stayed behind ball. i have never seen my ball make that left turn to pocket like this before.
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baltimora · « **Reply #9 on:** July 15, 2008, 10:37:39 PM »

you know there is something in that statement makes me think. i tried pushing out to left tonite and got way too much hook for a drier shot. i am watching wes malott videos and notices he holds ball closer to center which he then realigns in downswing but he pushes away straight. i need something to train me to stay behind ball till later. the lead with pinkie idea and other things makes sense but i am not able to accomplish it. being overweight i have always been told to hold ball to right so i can swing straight but maybe is a detriment. more food for thought to practice with.

quote:
when you push your arm swing left slightly your going to figure 8 your swing a tad and that puts the ball closer to your body with better leverage. Walter Ray uses that himself.

I start the ball myself closer to the center of my body and push it a tad bit left or forward. When I get the ball outside of my body in the stance I have a tendency to push it right, and then miss my target right.

You have to take a good look on video and see where you hold the ball in your stance and how it effects your arm swing direction. You have to see where the swing gets in the best groove via the ball set up position.

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JessN16 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 16, 2008, 12:11:59 AM »

Someone correct me if I'm wrong (I often am), but doesn't Dave Traber have such a pushaway/swing plane? There are a lot worse people you can emulate as a bowler especially when it comes to accuracy.

I started playing around with a pushaway similar to Patrick Allen's recently and I've found I like it very much.

Jess

Author Topic: Pushaway advice (long rant) (Read 1800 times)

baltimora

Pushaway advice (long rant)

MI 2 AZ

Re: Pushaway advice (long rant)

BowlingWolf

Re: Pushaway advice (long rant)

se7en

Re: Pushaway advice (long rant)

charlest

Re: Pushaway advice (long rant)

pin-chaser

Re: Pushaway advice (long rant)

Madiballz23

Re: Pushaway advice (long rant)

baltimora

Re: Pushaway advice (long rant)

baltimora

Re: Pushaway advice (long rant)

baltimora

Re: Pushaway advice (long rant)

JessN16

Re: Pushaway advice (long rant)