Author Topic: Random thoughts (Read 1914 times)

SrKegler · « **on:** May 13, 2005, 02:54:44 AM »

After reading Ebonite's and Brunswick's response to the USBC proposal for new equipment rules it makes me wonder just what is really needed, if anything.

I firmly believe we have a problem. I recently saw where one house had 180 honor scores for the year. To me that just isn't right. There cannot be that many great bowlers congretated in one area.

From what I see, the USBC has only 3 options to try and restore some integrity to the sport.

Equipment, lane conditions, and the pins.

From what I've gathered here off the site, no one wants them to put limits on the balls.

Lane conditions might help, the problem I foresee there is the one size fits all philosphy. A pattern that may be scorable on new synthetics won't work on and old worn wood surface and vice versa. The only solution would be to allow the houses to modify the patterns to match the idiosyncrasies of their lanes which would put us back in the same boat we're in now.

Heavier pins have been mentioned. Maybe we would go to 4.2 pins. That would definitely slow down the messenger pins. Problem is the heavier pins would impact more on our lower average bowlers than the others. We would probably see a lot more 5-7, 5-10, 8-10 splits.

The way I see the problem is we have maybe 1% of the bowlers averaging around the 220 mark. May 20% averaging 190-220, with the remainder averaging around the 170 mark. Most of the complaining seems to come from the 190-220 averages, me included. We simply cannot compete in handicap or scratch leagues or tournaments. Most of the people I've talked to that aren't coming back next year also fall into that average range.

What will work. I don't really know. Personally, I think we need limits on the balls, maybe grandfather in what we already have, increase the minimum oil requirements. As a last resort, increase pin weight.

My hats off to the USBC for trying something.

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~~~SrK - Have balls, will travel

Spending the kids inheritance one tournament at a time.

stormed1 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 13, 2005, 11:17:52 AM »

A lot of my feeling is that the new ball regulations would hurt all of bowling. The fact that a knowledgeable pro shop can help a bowlers reaction by how they drill the ball and position the weight block is a very important aspect. I really feel that the major problem with scoring conditions is the fact that now days you have adult bumper bowling. For the most part the younger participants of our sport are no longer bowlers but throwers. Just stand left, throw it hard right and watch it bounce of the dry "bumper" on the outside of the lane. Plus the new regulations will make things very costly for current bowlers between replacing or redrilling their equipment. In my arsenal i have 6 balls i throw that are at least 5 years old and would not meet the new rules. At the cost of todays balls it will become quite expensive for people to replace their equipment if it doesn't meet the new standards. When the last major ball spec Change came ( hardness rule) most people only ad 2 or 3 balls and they only cost about $50.00 each not $250.00 each. I feel the USBC needs to concentrate more on bringing integrity back to the game through lane conditions and possible heavier pins. It would mean more random checks for compliance. I also feel that if a bowler shoots an award score and the lanes are declared not in compliance with the rules punish the center and not the bowler. They still had to throw the ball and should get the award. It's not their fault the center didn't follow the rules
That's just my 2 cents worth

pin-chaser · « **Reply #2 on:** May 13, 2005, 11:18:22 AM »

SrKegler,

I am in that 220+ division and I complain continously at every opportunity. And for the vast majority of the bowlers I know in this same division we share the common thread of restoring integrity.

I read the posts by Brunsiwck and Ebonite and Mo Pinel and everyone I can find. And here is what I think about those statements:

They claim that the changes that USBC is suggesting would not do nothing but to make it more difficult to "tune" balls for bowlers. I ask, Isn't that restoring integrity by putting the skill back into the bowlers hand instead of using layouts? This statement is simply a smoke screen or a spin on the issue of change.

Now I ask, why do they care about this change? They make bowling balls under guidelines no matter what they are. The playing field is the same for all companies under current regulations or not. I suggest they have something to loose.. and that is that the R&D department will become less and so this change effects the number of employees. Additionally, it changes the mind set of manufacturers and a rethinking of how to exploit ball technology differently. This costs money.

When I read those statements, I read sincere concern...not for us as the proclaim but for them. Of course no company whats to be forced into change. But these changes are not about them... its about protecting our sport. Look beyond there words.. who is doing something for restoring integrity. Remaining status quo prolifferates an already out of control issue. Some change even if wroing is better than no change.

As for pins, double voided pins that produce top heavy pins that topple at half the tilt of the 60's sure does contribute. But to add weight to the pin to compensate for too power of bowling balls is not the answer. reduce the power of the bowling ball and you not only do away with the issue of pins but conditions as well. Forcing shells to be harder, smoother, would reduce the oil needed on the lane, reduce pattern breakdown, reduce entry angle and place the skill of bowler in a premium.

I akin this to what the US governement is doing about 911. We spend billions trying to protect each and every possible senerio when we do nothing to solve the major issue at hand, resolving the differences between our countries to reduce the hatred that creates the issues.

Clearly, without a doubt, bowling ball are the #1 cause in the scoring frenzy. Sure conditions and pins play a role no doubt. But lets fix the first problem and see what else needs fixing. Applying more oil to combat the balls is not the answer. Adding more weight to the pins is not the answer.
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pin-chaser · « **Reply #3 on:** May 13, 2005, 12:56:59 PM »

It is my contention that bowlers who develop better skills will not need as many balls. Bowlers that dont, will probally need more. But isnt that the way it is now anyway (to a lessor degree)?
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bowling9883 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 13, 2005, 01:08:34 PM »

I find it as a shock that we are seeing so many honor scores like was mentioned previously. At my house, we don't typically see honor scores and we treat that person who achieves that with a congrats. I think it is great to see them but when they are popping up 5-6 times a week then you have a big problem. I understand why the USBC might be considering changes to make the game tougher. Making the pins heavier would make my 14 lb Ricochet hit like a purse. That pocket split business would be not be cool in my book. Hopefully something reasonable is agreed upon so that everyone will be satisfied. I can only have one ball and play most conditions and that is my Ricochet. But at some point it does come down to which ball you use to effectively play the lanes. Ball switch is often a key point of strategy in your attempt to play the given conditions.
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"Sooner or later a bowler has to face the music. And that bowler...is you Roy." Ernie McCracken

Edited on 5/13/2005 1:02 PM

Hex017 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 13, 2005, 06:01:43 PM »

It is simple lane coniditions AND equipment are the problem. Solving the problem is NOT simple. King of the mill, that is good about the plastic only tournament, harder lane conditons would have helped but look at it this way people. With all the equipment today, even if there is a hard or tough shot out there, is it really that hard to blow a hole or groove a spot in the lane? Nope. What is the point of laying down a tough shot if someones just going to blow a hole in it? Then the "good" bowlers will be the ones taking there 200 grit ball and pushing it up the boards making a wall for themselves. Now, if we limit equipment, well King of the mill already stated, with the THS out there too many mistakes end up being strikes or high counts. How about we limit the "ability" of equipment AND make the lanes tougher? As for pin weight goes, I say no, I mean the guy that can knock the pins down cuz' he can throw it harder should not win, the guy who makes quality consistant shots with good adjustments should win, even if his ball speed isn't high, or his rev rate isn't through the roof.
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-If you're not willing to change, you're not willing to improve.

-Life is like a coin, you can spend it any way you want, but you can only spend it once.

-I will forever love this great game, I love the people and the competition, I only wish the best would get the recognition of an ATHLETE that they deserve.

charlest · « **Reply #6 on:** May 13, 2005, 07:56:16 PM »

quote:
last time you seen a honor score was the ball drilled label I've only seen 1 honor score shot this year cg. was within a 1/2" of grip and no balance.

In this area centers are miles a part so they don't have to put out a easy shot I'd say make the houses pay for the honor score rings and you'll see them drop but then we'll see some real sad bowling alleys!

Shermdog,

I'm not sure about what you're seeing, but I am not seeing that.

And centers don't care what they pay for as long as the bowler pays a lot. If the bowler leaves and doesn't come back, they know he's is annoyed. 99% of the bowlers I see will wail, piss and moan if their sanded Danger Zone doesn't walk back to the pocket when they throw it anywhere between the 1st and 3rd arrow.

That said, I'm not sure is most centers wouldn't be glad to be rid of 75% of their night time leagues and replace every league bowler with a "COSMIC" bowler, who has no idea what "oil" is.

quote:

Let us remeber we have learned a lot about bowling and a 220 average bowler dose have skills and timing and an understanding about his-her equipment

Whatever gave you that idea?
Most of the 220 avg bowlers I see know how to adapt with whatever ball the driller gave them but they have no idea whatit is or what it does. Most still say, "I had him put in side weight so it would go long and flip."

DON DRAPER · « **Reply #7 on:** May 13, 2005, 09:55:08 PM »

i have mixed feeling on the "cure" for all this. i would welcome the chance to bowl against heavier pins but i'm afraid it would hurt the women, seniors, and juniors. changing the oil pattern does seem to be easy----reprogram the lane machine. the abc allowed high tech balls to be utilized and now they're trying to pull in the reins----difficult to say the least. regardless, i'll still lace up my shoes and give it my all. side note: my all-time high series of 847( 289-289-269 ) was shot this year with a brunswick zone classic that has the cg placed within one inch of my grip center and has no balance hole.

Edited on 5/14/2005 0:32 AM

pin-chaser · « **Reply #8 on:** May 13, 2005, 10:33:25 PM »

King,

Not being privy to those specific Kegel tournaments of which you speak,or when they were held and knowing that Kegels most recent center has the "perfect" environment from perfectly flat lanes, humditity control, the best maintenance, there own analysis of lane conditions and training tools... I would venture to say, and the best bowlers bowling in the event that it is completely possible that averaging 240 using 3 piece weight block plastic equipment (I suppose you are refering to balls like the Stinger). I know I once averaged 267 for 15 games in 1977 in Germany on a military base using a rubber Dick Weber 5 star (Hollowed Stars not the older solid ones). My point here is that scoring has always been available... remember Allie Brant shot 887 which stood for decades back in 1907 (I believe). The issue we are fighting here is not based on the best bowlers in the perfect environment (which is what the Kegel Company is trying to prove to the world, that scoring does not have to be predicated on technology or condition), we are fighting the average joe (which clearly your skills are far more advanced) on THS creating unfair area, entry angle which causes incredible strike percentages.

I will look for where I read MO's response. I dont remember off hand the exact location.. I am sorry.

Rhino,

I believe we are in agreement. And I am in favor of all things that puts the skill back in the bowlers and eliminates the use of technology that supercedes the requirement of skill.

D Pat,

I would agree that controlling the patterns could be a neutralizer to the scoring frenzy. However, this is not doable and never has been. Centers simply believe they must exploit the rules to provide scores to attrack bowlers. If tomorow every bowling center would agree to do the same thing perhaps that would work (at least until todays technology destroyed the pattern and opened things up). Being a past 10 year head mechanic (1980-1990) I know how centers work to provide the highest scoring environment possible. And I know this has always been the case. It used to be that oil over powered bowling balls. However this is not the case today at all. Not to mention, that every bowling center has differnces in surface that would by nature provide different scoring paces with the same pattern applied.

Hex,

I believe it appears that it is both condition and ball tecnology. However, I believe that ball technology magnifies the condition and exploits the condition to a higher degree. Todays balls are designed to skid more in oil and hook more in dry and reserve engry down the lane. This mangifies the look of the condition in respect to the 70's and 80's patterns.

Shermdog,

Not to boast, my son has used only label drills for 18 months now. He has averaged 225+ over the last 4 tournaments (SSJBA) shooting 3 @ 300 games. The bottom line is that label drillings work best for my son. More exotic layouts over react for him. With todays technology it is about matching up.

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DON DRAPER · « **Reply #9 on:** May 14, 2005, 12:39:02 AM »

actually allie brants 887 was shot in 1937 with a hard rubber ball on shellac. but that brings up a good point----since all the balls were the same then( hard rubber with a pancake weightblock ) and the pins were solid maple the score shot had to be all skill, right ? not quite. no disrespect to mr. brant but the lanes were tinkered with even in those days. the lanes themselves were coated with shellac which is a very soft and pliable material. no oil was used on the lanes in those days so the shellac would have to be buffed periodically to smooth out the lane surface. if not a groove( or grooves ) would form in the shellac and better players would use this to their advantage. lane conditions have always had an impact on scoring.

pin-chaser · « **Reply #10 on:** May 14, 2005, 09:27:02 PM »

You are correct Greg. Shellec actually produced a depression of wear and tear and black markings where the balls we laid down. The point you make is one that I believe, that monitoring conditions will have little to no effect. Conditions have always been altered and un-controlled.
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Author Topic: Random thoughts (Read 1914 times)

SrKegler

Random thoughts

stormed1

Re: Random thoughts

pin-chaser

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pin-chaser

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bowling9883

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Hex017

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charlest

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DON DRAPER

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pin-chaser

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DON DRAPER

Re: Random thoughts

pin-chaser

Re: Random thoughts