win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: Dealing with transition/loss of carry  (Read 5659 times)

bcw1969

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 549
Dealing with transition/loss of carry
« on: September 01, 2016, 09:43:04 PM »
One of my catch phrases is "As soon as the lanes break down, so do I"...and that was no more evident than my first week of league tonight.  Typically I will attempt to play around the 8 - 10 board(I'm a lefty) and then as the lanes break down I will usually ball down and keep my same line or I will ball down and move my feet and target outside around the 1st arrow or just outside of it.  Tonight at the start of practice I was using my Gladiator solid and knew that it would be just a bit too much ball for what was out there.  Near the end of practice , I balled down to my Blue Gryphon and soon realized I would need to move outside from the get go. Was playing straight up the 5 board and was totally locked in, and had a nice 246 the 1st game.... started the 2nd game with a triple but midway through the 2nd game I totally lost my carry.  It wasn't the same pin each time--that I  can adjust my approach for--I was still  consistently in the pocket but wasn't carrying.   Usually I would ball down at that point, but I felt my Gladiator LE would not be enough, so end of 2nd game I decide to ball up to my Glad solid and cut of my side rotation a bit...was still getting to the pocket but wasn't carrying still.  I missed 2 7 pins that game and ended up with a 204.  Final game I stuck with the glad solid, cutting off the side rotation a bit, but never got locked back in again missed a couple of spares for a 172 for a 622 series.

After the set I was thinking that I should have moved back inside to the 8 - 10 board and maybe balled down to my Gladiator LE to catch oil there that hadn't been taken away yet by me and I  might have had more success.  Overpowering the lane is not an option, and moving way inside and chucking it outside is just not me. Would moving more inside and balling down have been a better way to handle the transition and my loss of carry?

Any insights would be appreciated.

Brad

 

bradl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1660
Re: Dealing with transition/loss of carry
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2016, 05:39:43 PM »

And for bcw1969, I would reconsider your rotation when moving in.  By nature, your rotation will have to be higher when moving in to ensure the ball comes back with the correct entry angle.  I typically lower my rotation angle the more direct I play.  When my launch angle increases, my rotation typically increases also.

Great advice here. It goes hand in hand (pun intended) with squaring up and facing the pocket rather than opening up and pitching away from it. Play more direct? stay behind it more. wheeling? your rotation should go up.

Caveat here being if you are using a weaker ball.

BL.

todvan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
Re: Dealing with transition/loss of carry
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2016, 06:26:38 PM »
You always give good advice spmc.  Just to expand on going more direct like you would on sport patterns,  I think the biggest mistake lower rev players make is playing too much out angle on house shots.  I  call it out hooking your rev rate and it is the surest way I know to have chronic carry problems.  Most people think more hook means more carry and there is typically plenty of free hook on house shots, even for us low rev guys.  The truth is that maintaining axis rotation will maximize carry.

Agreed on the good advice!  I am curious about your statement on maintaining axis rotation..does this mean that we should favor layouts that burn axis rotation more slowly?  I know that certain pin to pap distances effect this depending on symmetric or asym cores...anyway, I'm hoping to learn more about what ball layout is best for what we have been talking about here.  Thanks!
MOTIV Jackal LE .................40 x 4.5 x 40 p2.5
MOTIV Revolt Vengeance......45 x 4.0 x 50 p3
MOTIV Forza GT ..................50 x 4.0 x 70 p2.5
MOTIV Sigma Sting..............50 x 4.0 x 45 p3

avabob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2779
Re: Dealing with transition/loss of carry
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2016, 09:50:59 PM »
Not sure there are layouts that will accomplish controlling the axis rotation.  What I am really talking about is the ball burning off too much energy achieving the large amount of change in direction.  Trying for more end over end with decent ball speed is one way to do it.  Most of us know that this is a good way to play sport patterns because most times the large swing area is simply not available.  However trying to do the same thing when swing area is relatively unlimited, like on house shots, can help to preserve energy into the back end.  I started to observe not long after sports shots became common that my carry was often better on the sport shots than on house shots.  The reason was that the wet dry from the middle out forced me to hook the ball more than I wanted unless I cut down my axis rotation.

spmcgivern

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2079
Re: Dealing with transition/loss of carry
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2016, 08:37:25 AM »
avabob,

What todvan is saying is kinda what you are saying.  Some people refer to the burning of tilt and rotation in the same way you are saying burning of energy.  The flare of a bowling ball will control this "burning".  Higher flare will burn faster than lower flare.

This is why high flare layouts are used on speed dominate bowlers and on bowlers who have excessive tilt/rotation.  For those bowlers who are rev dominant and who have little tilt/rotation one would use lower flare layouts.  (In general)

todvan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
Re: Dealing with transition/loss of carry
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2016, 04:45:57 PM »
Agreed bob and spmc.  So would you say that when trying to play straighter, that less flare would be better?  Or does it depend on the bowlers type of release?  What ball surface/layout type is recommended for playing straighter?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 11:23:58 AM by todvan »
MOTIV Jackal LE .................40 x 4.5 x 40 p2.5
MOTIV Revolt Vengeance......45 x 4.0 x 50 p3
MOTIV Forza GT ..................50 x 4.0 x 70 p2.5
MOTIV Sigma Sting..............50 x 4.0 x 45 p3

spmcgivern

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2079
Re: Dealing with transition/loss of carry
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2016, 08:27:33 AM »
Agreed bob and spec.  So would you say that when trying to play straighter, that less flare would be better?  Or does it depend on the bowlers type of release?  What ball surface/layout type is recommended for playing straighter?

It will depend on the individual and the condition.  There are so many ways to attack a THS that it would be difficult to make a suggestion.

For me, I usually only get to play straight on sport shots.  Usually I don't need the biggest hooking ball in my hand to play straight either.  Something middle of the road or perhaps a little more (Forza GT is a good example, but depends on the volume).  I don't want something so strong I have to swing it to make it work.  As the line deteriorates, I will usually go to stronger equipment as I move in (Primal Rage OG or Revolt Vengeance depending on length of pattern).

And when it comes to flare, that will depend on your release.  If you are up the back, then I would think less flare would be the most beneficial.  As your tilt and rotation increase, then you may need more flare.  This will ensure the ball gets into the roll phase when it gets to the pocket.  This is really just a simplification.  I have had balls with lower flare do well moving in so I would work with a trusted pro shop to develop a plan of attack.

todvan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
Re: Dealing with transition/loss of carry
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2016, 11:37:59 AM »
Thanks!  Good info.  I am liking the Forza GT with a control layout for playing up the left side boards on a fresh house shot.  Will go to Vengeance if this shot goes away.   
MOTIV Jackal LE .................40 x 4.5 x 40 p2.5
MOTIV Revolt Vengeance......45 x 4.0 x 50 p3
MOTIV Forza GT ..................50 x 4.0 x 70 p2.5
MOTIV Sigma Sting..............50 x 4.0 x 45 p3