BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: TheGom on March 02, 2013, 06:45:26 PM
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Looking to further understand back row single pin leaves.
10 Pin
Flat or weak is cause by? correction is?
Ringing is cause by? Correction is?
Stone 9 pin
Cause? correction?
8 Pin real tap?
Cause? Correction?
7 Pin
Ringing
Cause? Correction
Right Hand Bowler
I understand most, but would like to hear more from the board on these. I had a game not long ago were I leave a pocket 8, and ringing 7, a stone 9 and back to a pocket 8 all in the last 7 frames, mixed in with two strikes. This was game three of the set with a Tropical Heat B/S hybrid. I was throwing it good, well I thought so till I see all these leaves.
Style is...14.25 mph (at least the houses scoring machine says this) guessing 250 revs and play between 15-10 it seems...house has pretty ripping back ends at about 39 feet.
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personally (righty),
ringing 10 - ball hit a little high, move left a half board with my feet.
flat 10 - little light, wiggle right a half board
(also, could correct with a forward backwards adjustment, abaout a half shoe at a time. backwards for ringing 10, forwards for flat 10)
9 pin - Ball drove through the pocket a bit too much, only correction is a very slight wiggle to the left, to bring the ball a little more to the right.
8 pin - ball didnt' drive into the pocket quite enough, i usually get the ball out slightly more with slightly more hand just to change the angle slightly.
Ringing 7 - Not too sure, don't run into it much. You gotta watch to see where the ball hits the hole. It usually means a high shot, like a stone 4 pin, for me. in that case move left some.
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also, watch your strikes to see how the racks are exploding. watch for the last pin(s) to fall, it'll help you determine if an adjustment is coming before you leave a 10 or a 4 pin.
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For me, In general:
Ring 10: move parallel right 1:1, ball went a little long
Flat 10: move left 2/1 feet/target and soften speed, ball burned up and hit like poo
Nine pin: pick up speed
Eight pin: complain
Seven pin: parallel move to hit light
Not into moving "half a board" or moving up or back on approach. Hand position and ball placement in setup help more.
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A stone 8 pin is caused by too little deflection.....very similar to a 9. Ball drives the pocket without deflecting and takes the 5 pin straight back (instead of it going and taking out the 8 pin like it is supposed to)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APaxT5KMwhc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
This video shows the headpin interfering but the end result is still the same. 5 pin straight back instead of going left to collect the 8 pin. Now imagine for a second if that same shot were a touch higher in the pocket. You would see the same extra drive that has the ball taking out the 5-8 and leaving the 9 pin.
Very similar shots overall. Now that said, I won't adjust much on an 8 pin leave as I think it is a true tap and I am in a very good pocket location. But a 9 pin I will move 2-1 left to loosen up the pocket and stay ahead of the transition. (I would rather leave a couple soft 10's than to stay there and see 4-9 or Greek Church)
Here is video of a weak 10 pin. This is caused by the ball being a bit light, but more importantly the ball is still in the hook phase (wide misses that recover) or has rolled out (usually from finding too much friction up front).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRlEtA2I4VA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
There are multiple reasons for this weak hit so there are multiple ways of coreecting it. Usually a slight move right is the easiest way. This puts the ball in a higher pocket location and decreases deflection off the head pin. But sometimes a ball change is necessary if the heads are scorched. These examples often lead to "swish" 7 pins for righties too as the half pocket shot and weaker inertia of the ball cause the headpin to hit the 2 pin slightly on the front side instead of at a 45º angle. The lack of inertia from bad ball roll phase also contributes again as less energy is imparted on the head pin which causes reduced pin action.
For me, a very basic and general rule is: a fix for corners is to get the ball rolling better and facing up to the pocket. For 8's and 9's....get the ball to delay a tad and facing the pocket a little less. There are many ways to accomplish these things. Basic lateral moves. Forward and backward on the approach. Hand position adjustments. Less or more hit at the bottom of the ball. Ball change. Or....sometimes on the worst nights....just pack your stuff and go home.....lol.
Hope this was helpful. There are more videos available to see the dynamics of balls going through the pins. It is all I look at when I am bowling as it tells me what I need to know to keep striking.
As an aside, the 6 pin is a very good indicator of how well your ball is going through the rack. When watching most ball videos I concentrate on the action of the 6 pin in judging how well a ball hits.
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Personally.....this is how I hit them.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xpgg4j_mega-bowling-strike_sport
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7 pin usually i don't change unless i see a few, bump right 1/2 board
9 pin move in 1 board
8 pin no change
10 pin ring 3 inches back with my feet
Flat i don't get to see much, i find going right just a touch to work though
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Just a short input: a perfect strike is often described as your ball hitting the 1, 3, 5, and 9 pins, which should make the 5 pin hit the 8. This, however, is incorrect in my opinion. As the stone 8 demonstrates, this is a (very high) percentage shot; it is not fullproof. It is entirely possible and repeatable to throw your ball to split the 8 and 9 pins (it will touch them both), and I have never seen a ball do this and leave anything even thinking about staying up.
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When I leave a flat 7, it is trying to tell me something about the shot. Do I need to throw it better? Or are the lanes changing? Don't adjust if the shot didn't feel 100%, just throw it better. If you threw it well, is the ball struggling to make it back to the pocket? There might be carry down (for me it means move 1/2 board left) or the ball is burning up (move right just a bit to catch more oil). If I leave an 8 pin, did I throw it a touch slow? Get too much hand? If one of those, throw it better. Is the break point drying out more? I move right half a board. 9 pins..well, same shot will strike next time likely. 10 pins on high flush hits, I usually don't adjust, half pocket 10 pins, pretty much the same as 7 pins for me.
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"house has pretty ripping back ends at about 39 feet." Without seeing you bowl this comment to me is what's telling with those leaves. Since I wasn't there I'm guessing the smash 7 and 9 pins were good shots but probably just a touch high flush - you get that on flying back ends, it means it's time to move. The 8 pins were probably shots you let get a little wider, the ball still recovered and hit but with the flying back ends it just didn't recover enough to send the 5 into the 8(slightly burned up to where most people wouldn't notice). In short you're getting too much angle either from the line you're playing or from the ball.
One house I bowl in has flying back ends as well. If I'm leaving the leaves you are I know I know I'm either lined up wrong(time to move) or have a ball matchup problem or both. If it's a matchup problem I'll either try to cut down on my angles by moving or balling down - this doesn't always mean moving right and going straighter, I could move left and not feed it as far right into into the dry. Other times I may ball up because I want the ball to read earlier and backend less getting a more rolly reaction. The key to knowing which to do is really watching your ball reaction and knowing where the oil is/isn't.
To answer your orignal questions:
Flat 10 - On THS move left with my feet a board the ball is burning up and losing too much energy. If I'm on a Med-Heavy or Heavy condition then the ball probably isn't making the corner and I'll move a board right with my feet.
Ring 10 - Move left a board with my feet. IMO it's just not burning up as much as the flat 10 but still burning up.
Ring 7 - won't move unless there other leaves that are also telling me something like 9 pins, 4 pins, flat 10, etc. Then I'm making the same moves I would for the other leaves.
9 pin and 4 pin are the same move for me. 2 and 1 left(feet-lane). On a sport shot the move will be 1 and 1, or 2 and 2 if it's a drier or broken down sport pattern.
I typically don't move on 8 pins unless I leave another one in the same game. Then I have to look at other leaves around them - see the moves I do for the other pins. If it's only 8 pins I'll move a board right with my feet.
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Some really great answers, thanks! So much to learn!
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Some really great answers, thanks! So much to learn!
As with most parts of bowling, find what works with YOUR game, and use it. It may be with bits and pieces of all of these answers.
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Always watch where your ball goes off the pin deck that will tell you what to do.
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Actually, in retrospect I am a firm believer that 8 pins come more often from bad racks than anything else. Be sure to check the rack before you step up on the approach. As the videos I posted earlier show, it is sometimes only a fraction of an inch that causes a bad break.
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Always watch where your ball goes off the pin deck that will tell you what to do.
Please explain
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Hope I'm still on topic, but wanted to ask about 8-10 splits.
There is no good time for them, but unlike splits or difficult leaves, the 8-10's only seem to happen to me after a good set of frames. Like someone killing a good poker hand with the queen of spades.
Accidentally converted it one time (a few years ago), cause I was so angry that I threw the ball as hard as I could to the right of the 8 pin, bouncing it off the left wall and all the way over to the 10, taking it out. Didn't even see it myself as I had already turned around. Generally, though, it's the kiss of death for whatever good string I have going, and unlike other leaves, I have no clue as to what went wrong, or a possible remedy.
Even if 8-10's are largely unavoidable and will just happen every now and then, still interested in whether ball speed or entry angle would play a bigger secondary role as a cause.
Thanks.
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Hope I'm still on topic, but wanted to ask about 8-10 splits.
There is no good time for them, but unlike splits or difficult leaves, the 8-10's only seem to happen to me after a good set of frames. Like someone killing a good poker hand with the queen of spades.
Accidentally converted it one time (a few years ago), cause I was so angry that I threw the ball as hard as I could to the right of the 8 pin, bouncing it off the left wall and all the way over to the 10, taking it out. Didn't even see it myself as I had already turned around. Generally, though, it's the kiss of death for whatever good string I have going, and unlike other leaves, I have no clue as to what went wrong, or a possible remedy.
Even if 8-10's are largely unavoidable and will just happen every now and then, still interested in whether ball speed or entry angle would play a bigger secondary role as a cause.
Thanks.
No angle, ball was totally out of gas. Id switch balls immediately.
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Hope I'm still on topic, but wanted to ask about 8-10 splits.
There is no good time for them, but unlike splits or difficult leaves, the 8-10's only seem to happen to me after a good set of frames. Like someone killing a good poker hand with the queen of spades.
Accidentally converted it one time (a few years ago), cause I was so angry that I threw the ball as hard as I could to the right of the 8 pin, bouncing it off the left wall and all the way over to the 10, taking it out. Didn't even see it myself as I had already turned around. Generally, though, it's the kiss of death for whatever good string I have going, and unlike other leaves, I have no clue as to what went wrong, or a possible remedy.
Even if 8-10's are largely unavoidable and will just happen every now and then, still interested in whether ball speed or entry angle would play a bigger secondary role as a cause.
Thanks.
I personally watch the 6 pin in relation to the 10pin on 8-10's. 10 pins are much easier to adjust for, and likely the 8 pin will go away with the adjustment for the 10 pin.
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8-10 split should almost never occur. I think I have left 1 or 2 in 25 years of bowling. That said they are caused by a horrible entry angle combined with the ball rolling out. As the previous poster mentioned, I would immediately switch balls.
But if yoh have good roll on the ball you shouldn't see one, so if you get it frequently it means you need to work on your release in my opinion. Also, my previous comment about bad racks sometimes comes into play. I have seen them left because of bad racks.
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Some really great answers, thanks! So much to learn!
As with most parts of bowling, find what works with YOUR game, and use it. It may be with bits and pieces of all of these answers.
Agreed. I'll add one more.
This is something that has stuck with me since I was in youth bowling some 20 - 25 years ago. Still works to this day (at least for me).
Think of the drink: 7-up, 10 back.
Left a 7 pin? Move up 1/2" on your approach. Keep your shot the same.
Left a 10 pin? Move back 1/2" on your approach. Keep your shot the same.
Left a 9 pin? maybe move 1 board left. Keep your shot the same.
The problem with the 7s and 10s, especially ringing 10s, is entry angle. You can change that by moving forward or backward on the approach before changing everything else with a left or right move. In fact, I wouldn't start to think about a move until I started to leave stone 9s, a 4 pin, or a 4-9. If you are leaving those, especially the 4-9, then you may look at a 2-1 or a 3-2 left (3-2 is a bit extreme, but you may need to to catch up to the track).
But for the corner pins, 7 up/10 back has been an essential tool to my mental game.
BL.