Author Topic: Expectations without a coach (Read 1894 times)

ksucat · « **on:** June 09, 2009, 06:09:51 AM »

I've taken a couple years off for various reasons. Have just started back and can already feel major faults in my game, mainly muscling the swing and turning the ball too early. Once I get just a little settled, I'm going to seek out one of the many good coaches in my area.

How good should we expect to be without a coach? How often should we seek out a coach to keep sharp? I have limited time and money to be under constant supervision, but do have some of both.

I waited too long before I quit to seek out a coach. I have regretted it as I quit very unhappy that I'd become such a house hack. You know, the kind that can average a bunch in 1 house, but nowhere else. That was me. The problems in my game crept up so unnoticed on this easy house shot that I gave them no attention. I hadn't seen a coach in at least 5 years. Why should I, right? I was doing ok.

The good news is that I'm ready to seek help. I just don't want to get my game back only to lose it. I'm only 36 and am sure not ready to go downhill.

Sean John 369 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 09, 2009, 03:54:39 PM »

Just bowl from the heart...it aint how, it's how many. I've had coaches in the past but they all want to change your game. That's hard to do when you've been bowling the way you have for years. Find a coach that is looking to enhance your game. Not change it. Most of it is mental IMO. I've seen people with non textbook deliveries and still manage to shoot well. Im able to correct certain things in my game by reading different things.
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nextbowler · « **Reply #2 on:** June 09, 2009, 04:34:28 PM »

It is usually better if you can go it on your own. If you know that you
have a specific problem, maybe a coach can help you. I have gone to several
coaches over the years with poor results. I usually lose confidence when he
or she tells me to do something to compensate instead of fixing the original
problem. They don't usually know the diagnosis and prescription for a problem.
Most of the time I know what is going on as I have a MS in physical education
and have taught for 29 years. When the coach tells me something wrong, the
session is over. If you can, do it yourself.

Sean John 369 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 09, 2009, 04:37:12 PM »

I've experienced coaches/someone giving feedback that can tell you what you're doing wrong but not how to correct it.
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janderson · « **Reply #4 on:** June 12, 2009, 12:25:48 PM »

Even the bowlers who are the best at self-diagnosing miss things and develop bad habits because of it. Using a video camera can help only if you know what you're looking for and know what you're looking at and know the proper corrective actions for you. Few bowlers have a well-trained coaches eye and have the depth of knowledge of possible corrective actions.

Coaches want pupils to change things. To improve, you must change. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is a good working definition of insanity. Just because you've been doing it the same for 25 years doesn't make it the best method for you. It's true that coaches shouldn't try fix what isn't broken, but there are good coaches and bad coaches out there just as there are good and bad bowlers. Don't write off the good coaches because bad coaches exist.

Those guys you watch on the PBA telecasts use coaches. It is amazing that there are bowlers that believe that to be a mistake.

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J.J. "Waterola Kid" Anderson - "Better than Jello" - Kill the back row

Edited on 6/15/2009 1:14 PM

Smash49 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 12, 2009, 12:48:01 PM »

When looking for a coach ask for a resume. See what they have done. Ask questions. The fact is you are shopping for a product. The product is knowledge, communications ability and how you would be able to work with them. Plenty of the pros work with coaches and training staff everyday. I got a look at Ron Hoppe's video list one day and it was just amazing who he has worked with. There are a lot of good ones. The BJI's list of top 100 coaches has probably the best practicing coaches in the world on it. Many coaches specialize so not all are what you may be looking for. There are also a lot of coaches that have passed their testing and never use the credentials. Yes there are some bad coaches also. I would also ask for a list of their instructors or references. Here is mine.

Coaching Statistics

USBC/USA Bowling Silver Certified Coach 2004 - Instructor: Rod Ross

USBC/USA Bowling Bronze Certified Coach 2003 - Instructor: Susie Minshew

Dick Ritger Certified Level 1 & 2 Instructor 2004 - Instructor: Dick Ritger

ASEP Coaching Principles - Instructors: Rich Grogan & Jeanne Klescewski

Classic Products Fitting and Ball Drilling Seminar 2005 - Instructor: Mike Riggins

USBC Level 1 & 2 Certified Coach 2006 - Instructor: Bob Shumate

USBC Level 1 Coach Instructor 2006 - Instructors: Cary Pon / Pat Pidgeon

USBC Athlete Development Drills 2006 - Instructors: Bob Maki, Cary Pon, Ron Hatfield

International Bowling Pro Shop and Instructors Association Certified Technician August 2007
Instructors Jeff McCorvey, Art McKee, Russ Wilson

Listed in 100 Top Coaches by Bowlerâ€™s Journal International 2007, 2008

Listed as one of the Top Coaches in the State of Texas by Bowlerâ€™s Journal International:
July 2006 Page 43

IBPSIA Member 2007, 2008, 2009

Smash49

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Smash49

Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with SLSM Designs Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
www.bowlersslidesock.com
Striking Cat Bowling Pro Shop, Duncan Oklahoma! IBPSIA Certified Technician
www.strikingcatbowling.com

ksucat · « **Reply #6 on:** June 12, 2009, 01:51:22 PM »

Fortunately, I do have access to a few good coaches. I guess I am still stunned at all the flaws that appeared that should have been obvious, but weren't. That's why I don't want to make the mistake of going too long without enlisting the trained eye of a quality coach. Easy lanes can mask major faults because the end results are our score.

I heard a Chris Barnes interview where he talked about his Clark Kent glasses and mullet back in the day that some of his friends should have pulled him aside and helped him out. While I don't feel quite that ugly, it's close. I'm wondering where my friends were when I started looking like such a hack.

Pinbuster · « **Reply #7 on:** June 14, 2009, 07:54:16 PM »

Glad to see you are back bowling.

I don't think you were as bad as you feel you were, but I know with the easy shots out you can get lazy.

With the coaching talent in town you shouldn't have a problem getting a good one.

nextbowler · « **Reply #8 on:** June 14, 2009, 11:18:37 PM »

It is a disservice to claim that all PBA players use coaches. You can't
possibly know that.

another300 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 15, 2009, 07:54:46 AM »

quote:
I've taken a couple years off for various reasons. Have just started back and can already feel major faults in my game, mainly muscling the swing and turning the ball too early. Once I get just a little settled, I'm going to seek out one of the many good coaches in my area.

How good should we expect to be without a coach? How often should we seek out a coach to keep sharp? I have limited time and money to be under constant supervision, but do have some of both.

I waited too long before I quit to seek out a coach. I have regretted it as I quit very unhappy that I'd become such a house hack. You know, the kind that can average a bunch in 1 house, but nowhere else. That was me. The problems in my game crept up so unnoticed on this easy house shot that I gave them no attention. I hadn't seen a coach in at least 5 years. Why should I, right? I was doing ok.

The good news is that I'm ready to seek help. I just don't want to get my game back only to lose it. I'm only 36 and am sure not ready to go downhill

If you can average high in one house means you have good skills. Even if its an easy house shot you still have to throw it good and knock down pins.
Join a PBA pattern league. I'm a pretty good spare shooter and average 210+. I joined a pba pattern league and my first series on the Viper pattern was 485. I didn't follow the suggested way to play the lanes and was just trying to play it like a house shot...many splits and missed spares. Next week I reviewed the info on how to play it and what ball to use. Ended up shooting 674.
You might be playing the lanes wrong at another house. Spares are just as important as strikes. Most house hacks can put a ton of strikes together but neglect to work on their spare game.

I'm not suggesting you don't need a coach. Just pointing out a few things you might try since you said you are low on funds.

janderson · « **Reply #10 on:** June 15, 2009, 01:35:17 PM »

quote:
It is a disservice to claim that all PBA players use coaches. You can't
possibly know that.

I fail to see any disservice. A person that seeks help when needed is wise, not somehow a lesser person. Viewing a person that seeks help as somehow having lesser talent is doing the disservice.

Witness the number of professionals who win on TV that speak into the camera thanking a coach who helped them with their game. Danny Wiseman has done it. According to his book "Bowling Execution", coach John Jowdy speaks of working with and helping many of the big name professionals on tour including Norm Duke and Pete Weber. There's video analysis in the CATS system in Reno and Florida of coaching sessions with Brian Voss, David Ozio, and Parker Bohn III. If you do a coaching session, they'll compare your swing to one of theirs. Brian Voss, in the forward to Dean Hinitz' Book "Focused for Bowling" talks about how much coach Hinitz has helped him and other bowlers on tour. I know from first-hand experience that Michael Haugen, Richie Allen, and Gary Dickinson use coaches. According to coach Len Mal - now retired - he has worked with both Mike Scroggins and Jess Stayrook. According to US Bowler magazine, Chris Barnes, Sean Rash, Lonnie Waliczeck (sp), and Rhino page had extensive coaching while at Wichita State and again as part of Team USA.

Is that every professional bowler in the history of the sport? Absolutely not. Does that somehow invalidate the point that successful professionals use coaches? No.
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J.J. "Waterola Kid" Anderson - "Better than Jello" - Kill the back row

pin-chaser · « **Reply #11 on:** June 16, 2009, 02:12:16 PM »

How good can you expect to be without a coach? That my friend is up to you. How good do you want to be? There is plenty of information out there and there is plenty of software available that will allow you to do your own analsys. Now if you dont trust yourself, I think you are saying just how good you can be.

backswing_aplenty · « **Reply #12 on:** June 16, 2009, 04:34:14 PM »

My response to whether or not to get a coach is: if Tiger has a swing coach, I'm getting a coach. If the most dominante athlete in sports has a coach why doesn't everyone.

I understand the frustration of not seeing results from some of the less than reputable "coaches" that roam around the centers of America. But no one coach can give you everything you need. It takes time to find someone you trust and are willing to work with.

The biggest resistence I see from people is their ego. I'm guilty of it. Get over it. Once I finally got over myself and quit trying to rip the holes out of the ball my scores and confidence shot up. I had been trying to fix everything but the main problem. I resisted every change my coaches tried to implement with my release. I changed footwork, ball weight, timing, pushaway, backswing. Nothing allowed be to be consistent until I relaxed my release and quit TRYING to hook it and just rolled it.

Now I'm not saying grabbing the ball is your problem, it's just my scenario. But it was 3 years of haggling with coaches until I saw tremendous results. Try out a couple guys (or girls) and see what you think. If they try to change things, good! Change is good. If you don't like it, try something else.

There is no black and white in bowling, the only right answer is what feels right to the bowler. But there are some basic fundementals we all need in order to become better bowlers. Check the ego and be willing to learn.

*backswing
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Storm Staff 2009

Professional Approach Staff So Cal

Author Topic: Expectations without a coach (Read 1894 times)

ksucat

Expectations without a coach

Sean John 369

Re: Expectations without a coach

nextbowler

Re: Expectations without a coach

Sean John 369

Re: Expectations without a coach

janderson

Re: Expectations without a coach

Smash49

Re: Expectations without a coach

ksucat

Re: Expectations without a coach

Pinbuster

Re: Expectations without a coach

nextbowler

Re: Expectations without a coach

another300

Re: Expectations without a coach

janderson

Re: Expectations without a coach

pin-chaser

Re: Expectations without a coach

backswing_aplenty

Re: Expectations without a coach