Author Topic: Reverse Finger Pitch (Read 29535 times)

Brickguy221 · « **on:** June 11, 2009, 12:49:26 PM »

I know that many people use reverse finger pitch because of stiffness in their fingers, hand, etc. With that being said, why do some bowlers use reverse finger pitch when they have no stiffness in their fingers, hand etc.

I know of two local bowlers that average in the 225-235 range that use reverse finger pitch and they have no finger or hand stiffness. One uses 3/8 reverse in both fingers and the other uses 3/8 reverse on MF and 1/2 reverse on the RF.

They both say they get better lift-leverage on the ball with reverse finger pitch.

My question is .... Is this is true for those of you that might use reverse finger pitch but don't have any finger or hand stiffness?
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"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."

Brick

Edited on 6/11/2009 8:51 PM

Smash49 · « **Reply #46 on:** June 26, 2009, 08:20:05 PM »

Brian that's the point. You were trying to grab at something that is designed to make you relax and have better feel. It's not a miracle cure over night and things will be considerably different. Many people have bowled so long uncomfortablely that to do anything different just doesn't work for them. They try to do things the way they always have and it just doesn't work that way. The feel is just not the same and it won't be. Did you change the entire grip or just the fingers? You have to adjust the entire grip. Calluses are a bad thing. Bowling in pain is a bad thing. One of my instructors told me that if it doesn't seem or feel weird, different or unusual you haven't made a change. With change comes work, understanding and adjustments. If everything felt the same there would be no change.

Smash49
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Smash49

Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with SLSM Designs Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
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Mike Austin · « **Reply #47 on:** June 26, 2009, 09:25:48 PM »

quote:
Brian that's the point. You were trying to grab at something that is designed to make you relax and have better feel. It's not a miracle cure over night and things will be considerably different. Many people have bowled so long uncomfortablely that to do anything different just doesn't work for them. They try to do things the way they always have and it just doesn't work that way. The feel is just not the same and it won't be. Did you change the entire grip or just the fingers? You have to adjust the entire grip. Calluses are a bad thing. Bowling in pain is a bad thing. One of my instructors told me that if it doesn't seem or feel weird, different or unusual you haven't made a change. With change comes work, understanding and adjustments. If everything felt the same there would be no change.

Smash49
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Smash49

Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with SLSM Designs Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
www.bowlersslidesock.com
Striking Cat Bowling Pro Shop, Duncan Oklahoma! IBPSIA Certified Technician
www.strikingcatbowling.com

Now this is a Smash49 statement that I agree with 100%.

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Brickguy221 · « **Reply #48 on:** June 26, 2009, 09:46:42 PM »

quote:
Now this is a Smash49 statement that I agree with 100%.

Thru my current experience of attempting to switch to reverse finger pitch, I am in total agreement with both Smash and Mike Austin. I unknowingly (sort of) keep searching for that old feel and it is really interferring with my release. When I first tried reverse finger pitch as reported in the early days of this topic, I was really excited with the change, my easier release, more revs, more control, better scores, and etc. Now for the past 3 outings, everything has gone south on me and I am throwing the ball terrible with little hook, dead hits, and etc. Just the opposite of what I was getting at the beginning. Nothing has chamged as far as my grip is concerned.....but something in my release has changed and I can't figure out what it is.

I did prove initially that this reverse finger pitch seems that it will work for me. My driller sucks when I talk to him about what is happening, asking for advisement and etc. He doesn't offer to help or advise or even go watch me throw a few balls. He just sits there and stares at me saying nothing. However, I haven't given up on this reverse pitch yet.
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"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."

Brick

TDC57 · « **Reply #49 on:** June 26, 2009, 09:56:49 PM »

I have 0 finger pitch and 3/8 left, 3/8 right in both fingers. I always used power lifts. Last year I installed standard oval Turbo grips and I got more ball action than ever. I also never got any pain in my elbow this year. That's something I battled toward the end of every year when we were going to a lot of tournaments. Does this make any sense?

Smash49 · « **Reply #50 on:** June 26, 2009, 10:20:36 PM »

Yep makes sense. A few things.... Most peoples fingers do not bend at a 90 degree angle. So why have the ball's finger holes drilled that way? The extra revs you may think you are getting on the ball are most likely not happening and you are probably muscling the shot. Next thing, drill bits are round thumbs are not. If a driller hands you a ball with a thumb that has not been worked on hand it back to them. Next and my favorite. The chances of your drill specs being fingers 0-L 3/8, 0-R 3/8 and the thumb being 3/8 reverse and 0 or 1/8 right lateral are highly unlikely. There is a chance.... But more than likely the driller drills everyone that way. If you do not believe take a buddies ball that the same guy drilled and check his specs with a pitch gauge. I see a lot of balls with 4 inch span, 4 1/2 inch span, 5 inch, 5 and 1/4 all the same.

I just came back from a USBC, IBPSIA summit. USBC is high on proving everything by way of science! This should be on the list.

Smash49
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Smash49

Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with SLSM Designs Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
www.bowlersslidesock.com
Striking Cat Bowling Pro Shop, Duncan Oklahoma! IBPSIA Certified Technician
www.strikingcatbowling.com

TDC57 · « **Reply #51 on:** June 27, 2009, 01:30:14 AM »

Smash,

I don't know if you were responding to me or not but those are my finger specs and my thumb is 1/4 reverse with zero lateral. I do not muscle the ball. That is something I've never been accused of. As a matter of fact I have people tell me I don't do enough with the ball. My finger pitches were set up by my ball driller. The thumb pitches were my choice after some experimentation. When I muscle the ball is when I get the sore elbow.

BrianCRX90 · « **Reply #52 on:** June 28, 2009, 07:00:13 PM »

quote:
Brian that's the point. You were trying to grab at something that is designed to make you relax and have better feel. It's not a miracle cure over night and things will be considerably different. Many people have bowled so long uncomfortablely that to do anything different just doesn't work for them. They try to do things the way they always have and it just doesn't work that way. The feel is just not the same and it won't be. Did you change the entire grip or just the fingers? You have to adjust the entire grip. Calluses are a bad thing. Bowling in pain is a bad thing. One of my instructors told me that if it doesn't seem or feel weird, different or unusual you haven't made a change. With change comes work, understanding and adjustments. If everything felt the same there would be no change.

The driller had me go from both thumb and fingers that were at 0 to forward 1/8 on the thumb which in the end I loved it and ended up keeping it on future balls. I think the problem with the fingers with the reverse is they were drilled too big. I'm not exactly sure why the driller did this but they pretty much felt like a semi finger grip. But I remember I kept on dropping it. I could try it again in an old ball but afraid to try in on a new ball. The other real problem for me even more so was my span was like 1/8 of an inch or maybe more too long and now shortened that and feels much better.

Smash49 · « **Reply #53 on:** June 29, 2009, 04:50:55 PM »

TDC57

The lifts pitch you usually 1/8 forward. So going to the ovals relaxed you 1/8. That would relieve the stress. The 1/4 reverse thumb helps some also. It should keep you from squeezing as much and help you relax.

Brian

Do you have 0 in the fingers and 1/8 forward in the thumb. I'd need to look but this sounds like it would make you hang up or grab the ball.

Smash49
--------------------
Smash49

Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with SLSM Designs Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
www.bowlersslidesock.com
Striking Cat Bowling Pro Shop, Duncan Oklahoma! IBPSIA Certified Technician
www.strikingcatbowling.com

Brickguy221 · « **Reply #54 on:** July 15, 2009, 11:37:55 AM »

Finally

....Many-Many thanks to Mike Austin that my reverse pitch & grip problems are now resolved. I have only tried it for 4 games so far, but WOW, what a difference. The ball's weight is now on the pads of my fingers, thumb releases so smooth at the right time, I am able to hold the ball with no squeezing of it, ball has more revs, I am able to swing the ball better and etc.

Mike didn't even look at my old ball. He simply re-did my entire grip from scratch as if I was a new bowler that didn't own a ball....and to top it off, after he drilled it, not a single adjustment had to be made to the thumb or anything. I didn't even need to add tape or anything to the thumb hole. The fit was so perfect that I simply was able to take it out on the lanes and start bowling with it as if I had always had that perfect fitting grip. I was simply amazed at what Mike did. He is so accurate in what he does.

Again even though I thanked him over and over, I am thanking Mike Austin here once again. Thanks Mike.....
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"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."

Brick

ccrider · « **Reply #55 on:** July 15, 2009, 12:31:31 PM »

I went from O to 3/8 forward on my ring finger, at the suggestion of my driller(0 thumb). In addition I also use vise power lifts. Overall, we have been setting up my balls with a relaxed span, 43/8.

I plugged a power machine, and redrilled it after remeasuring with a jayhawk ball fitter, 49/16 span, with 1/4 reverse in the thumb and 1/2 reverse in the fingers. Ball fills good/comfortable, although the span is maxxed out for me and I have been thinking that I have been doing pretty good with a relaxed span. I will have to see how it works out on the lane.

I remember someone posting that 0 to forward on the thumb is better and promotes a more relaxed grip. I could not get out of the ball with reverse on my fingers and 0 on my thumb, so we had to adjust to reverse on the thumb.

I immediately noticed that the reverse on the fingers shifts the wait of the ball more to the pads of my fingers. I do not know that this will help with revs but we will see. I generally do not grab at the bottom of my swing anyway, so I do not know that the change will matter.
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LuckyLefty · « **Reply #56 on:** July 15, 2009, 12:36:59 PM »

So Brick...what are your new specs....and what were old? Do you know?

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

BrianCRX90 · « **Reply #57 on:** July 15, 2009, 08:12:34 PM »

quote:
TDC57

The lifts pitch you usually 1/8 forward. So going to the ovals relaxed you 1/8. That would relieve the stress. The 1/4 reverse thumb helps some also. It should keep you from squeezing as much and help you relax.

Brian

Do you have 0 in the fingers and 1/8 forward in the thumb. I'd need to look but this sounds like it would make you hang up or grab the ball.

Smash49
--------------------
Smash49

Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with SLSM Designs Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
www.bowlersslidesock.com
Striking Cat Bowling Pro Shop, Duncan Oklahoma! IBPSIA Certified Technician
www.strikingcatbowling.com

Absolutely not. Who told you that having forward in the thumb would force you to grab the ball?

Xcessive_Evil · « **Reply #58 on:** July 15, 2009, 09:13:40 PM »

I actually used to have reverse pitch until not even a week ago. I changed my style up quite a bit, and really couldn't feel the ball coming off of my hand, thus I'd over compensate and put too much on it.

I've since went to 1/8 forward pitch in two new pieces, and can actually feel it now. I can still get the ball off cleanly, which is a bonus.
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los2003 · « **Reply #59 on:** July 15, 2009, 10:52:07 PM »

I am actually going to go from 0 in the fingers to 1/2 reverse because I was breaking a blood vessel in my nail so it actually brought my attention to it. And talked to a couple shop owners I know and they both said I could go 1/2 away.. So i'm gonna try it in a few pieces i'm not worried about

Lillen · « **Reply #60 on:** July 16, 2009, 02:45:38 AM »

Don't know if this is of any interest but I found some info about Chris Barnes grip, one thing that was interesting was that he uses different spans and thumb pitch for strike and spare ball..

http://www.kegel.net/library/foArticles.asp?iKodYazi=45

More PBA player Tech Talk here:

http://www.kegel.net/library/foArticles.asp?iKodYazar=10

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Edited on 7/16/2009 2:47 AM

Author Topic: Reverse Finger Pitch (Read 29535 times)

Brickguy221

Reverse Finger Pitch

Smash49

Re: Reverse Finger Pitch

Mike Austin

Re: Reverse Finger Pitch

Brickguy221

Re: Reverse Finger Pitch

TDC57

Re: Reverse Finger Pitch

Smash49

Re: Reverse Finger Pitch

TDC57

Re: Reverse Finger Pitch

BrianCRX90

Re: Reverse Finger Pitch

Smash49

Re: Reverse Finger Pitch

Brickguy221

Re: Reverse Finger Pitch

ccrider

Re: Reverse Finger Pitch

LuckyLefty

Re: Reverse Finger Pitch

BrianCRX90

Re: Reverse Finger Pitch

Xcessive_Evil

Re: Reverse Finger Pitch

los2003

Re: Reverse Finger Pitch

Lillen

Re: Reverse Finger Pitch