Author Topic: Reviving Bowling (Read 3057 times)

scadreau · « **on:** June 12, 2008, 04:41:04 AM »

I would like to have a constructive conversation as to why everyone thinks bowling is on the decline and what we can do to try to get it recovering. I understand that the current gas prices (and economy in general) is not going to help matters but I am saddened to see a sport that anyone can do in a tailspin.

Please do not rant etc. I would like this to be a rational discussion on the problems and what we can do to fix them.

Thanks,

Scott

1MechEng · « **Reply #1 on:** June 12, 2008, 12:45:13 PM »

1,) Keep costs reasonable. $5.00 per game for cosmic bowling is not reasonable to take a family of 4 out for the evening to bowl for 2 hours.
2.) Get the kids involved. Promote the sport to the next generation.
3.) Find a way to spice it up and make it exciting. Personalities, glitz, glamour, whatever. The proverbial pig needs some lipstick.
4.) Get a prominent personality to be the public spokesperson for the sport. A superstar is needed to help enhance the image.

This is just a start.
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Dan
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Engineering * Bowling = a fun and practical application of rotational kinematics.

Bowling Nerd Herd (TM) Member

n00dlejester · « **Reply #2 on:** June 12, 2008, 01:10:14 PM »

I agree with what Mech says. I think that Brunswick's Bonus Zone is a great idea. 1.29 games anytime you want is GREAT, and if they hand out this many coupons, then they can definitely drop prices to make the open bowling more accessible. It's just a matter of how.

As far as a superstar, we should try to somehow get Rhino Page to be the next great ambassador for bowling. The PBA does a good job defining the "young guns" and the HoF'ers, I hope this does create friendly competition and that it will make personalities emerge.

How do we get the next generation involved? Look at the Nintendo Wii. They have Wii bowling, and everybody loves it. We need to tie a way into playing this game, and real bowling. That'll get more kids in juniors league, and play on high school teams.

leftyinsnellville · « **Reply #3 on:** June 12, 2008, 01:11:45 PM »

Bowl-a-thon fundraiser. Any charity will do, but I think one that raised money for disabled veterans might go over well. Who could say "no" to that? Plus it would give bowling and bowlers a good name.

Have participants get sponsers to pledge a penny or a nickle a pin for a three game series. Get local celebraties involved. The whole thing would probably be a ton of fun, especially if local businesses donated prizes to give to the bowlers and to auction off at a silent auction. The bowling centers and pro shops could use this as an opportunity to find new bowlers and start up a league or two.

Giving away more than a few inexpensive bowling balls, bags, and shoes would be a good idea, too. Once someone has the equipment they usually want to use it.
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(formerly leftyinhawaii)

n00dlejester · « **Reply #4 on:** June 12, 2008, 02:02:49 PM »

That's a really good idea. I like that. Have you had experience doing said fundraiser?

Artimust · « **Reply #5 on:** June 12, 2008, 02:16:42 PM »

Kids. I started my son bowling and had him join a junior bowling league last year. He loves it. He brings his friends. All he talks about is bowling, bowling, and bowling. He walks around swinging his arm. He loves the game so much, brought friends and got them interested, who also brought other friends.... Keep games reasonably prices and Voila! Sustainability!!

BOWL119 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 12, 2008, 03:20:26 PM »

Recently I had a conversation with Randy Stoughton about this matter. He said that getting kids involved early is a big benefit to help keep the sport going. But to get kids involved, we need the parents to be involved as well. I think this will be the hardest part. Without the parents being involved, we will not see youth. I have even offered to pick kids up and drop them off to no avail. Parents just do not seem to care about bowling.

But at this time, we need to get friends involved in bowling. But as most have told me, they see the price of games and it turns them off. They would much rather take part in the dollar games or a lunch-n-bowl for $6.00. Alot of parents do not see the need to take their kids bowling cause they themselves do not like the sport. They also say that the cost for balls and shoes is too much. But what other sport can you do that you can rent shoes and the balls are already there, free of charge.

Most people who do not understand will laugh at me when I tell them the amount of bowling equipment that my sons and I have. But those same people will pay $300.00 on a new driver each year. So I ask them what the difference is and they have no answer. Not sure what the fees are for golf around the country, but here on the AirForce base they are around $40.00 a round. So even at $2.00 a game, you could bowl 20 games for the same amount as 1 round of golf. I do understand that I have the ability to bowl on a military base where the prices are lower then most. But even looking out in the city of Tampa, prices are not unreasonable. Most of 4-$5.00 a game. Plus they have deals throughout the week, so I personally do not see where the prices are outrageous.

Of course with the price of gas, it makes it a little more difficult to drive a good distance to bowl. Most people will stick closer to home as the new fall season approaches.

One thing that may be a personal thing for me is the money. Why have a youth bowl everyday, run them back and forth to tournaments and leagues for very little money in contracts. When they could play baseball, football, soccer or basketball and sing a contract that will pay them more in one year then most bowlers will earn in a lifetime. This may be a bit off the subject, but as a parent, I could see this as a reason for some. It may not be a good reason, but to them it is a reason.

Most people have reasons for doing what they do, we may not agree with them. But it is their reason and we are not going to change their monds on it.

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Thanks in advance for all comments...

T.J.
BOWLING IS FUN NO MATTER WHAT YOU SCORE. BUT A 300 IS ALWAYS NICE.
Awesome Revs, Finish, Flip, LevRG, N'Sane, Onslaught, Bravo,
GOOD LUCK AND GOOD BOWLING!!!
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Graaille · « **Reply #7 on:** June 12, 2008, 03:51:37 PM »

What I'm discovering is that it's enthusiasm that brings people along. Get a person who is charismatic and excited about bowling, and they will bring people along. I'm finding that out because at my last job the group of 40 people only got together twice a year for the bi-annual office party/outing. But when I started talking bowling regularly at work, and then sent out a message that everyone who had the slightest bit of interest could join me every Saturday for a few games -- I got 5 regulars and 5 occasionals.

Just make it fun, search out deals, and be an ambassador for the sport whereever possible. I don't like Cosmic bowling, but I'll suggest it to a group of teens/20-somethings, and we'll have a good time. If they remember it as fun, whether it was the bowling or the company, later when it's their money and recreation -- it's easier to get them back in.

Now that I'm at a new job, the first thing that I was handed as a freebie was a bowling shirt w/the company logo on it. Several people said semi-jokingly "this kinda makes me want to bowl." So, I'm going to take them up on it. I'll do the same thing -- invite, invite, and invite again. Be glad when they show up, and don't blow them out if they don't.

GutterLine · « **Reply #8 on:** June 12, 2008, 03:56:44 PM »

I've been bowling since about 1986, when I could bowl for $1/game and shoe rental was $.75. I was hooked immediately and have been an avid bowler ever since. Up until the past few years, I bowled 3-4 leagues/week and have had my share of good scores and averages.

That being said, I have always been an advocate of bowling. I never understood why professional bowlers made so little compared to other professional sports. Thus, I developed a hatred for golf (which I no longer harbor). I never could understand why a game you can practice for free (baseball, basketball, football, etc...) could carry so much more respect and cash, but now I know it's about what spectators will pay to see. A good reason why the PBA has become what it is.

A few years ago, I asked one of the managers of the local center why he thought league bowling was struggling so badly and his response was: 'People have so many more options than they did 15 years ago.' He was spot on! Just consider the fact that in 1989, there were no where near as many channels on TV, there was no commercial internet, the video game systems and other electronics were in their infancy. These are only a few examples, but if you consider that, at least in my area, there was nothing to do if you lived in the country. You had maybe 10 TV channels a VCR and that was it. If you wanted something to do, you either joined a summer softball league or a bowling league. We had tons of bowlers that participated in multiple leagues because that was all there was to do. That is definitely no longer the case.

I will also say that, again in my area, the price + lane conditions have pretty much driven the league bowlers away from practice. The lane conditions are conducive to better scores so the bowlers are content with a 'baby' deuce average and have no will to get any better. So why would a league bowler pay $4/game to attempt to get better when they feel their averages are 'good enough'? I work in the pro shop of our center and get the employee rate and I still never practice, which is my choice, but my wife and I would rather go to a movie and sit for a couple of hours than practice at the local center. I assume others with this view are causing this downward spiral of bowling.

At this stage, if you speak to any bowling center managers, the majority will tell you that leagues do not pay the bills, it's open bowling. This still makes my skin crawl, especially because leagues are GUARANTEED money, but a family of 4 that goes out and spends a night bowling pretty much trumps a pair of lanes used by a league. So, catering to open bowlers has become the way the center pays the bills. League bowlers are expected and taken for granted because it's in our blood.

I apologize that this turned into a rant. I just figured I'd put in my $.02, but once I started typing, I just couldn't stop...

Gutterline

loopy · « **Reply #9 on:** June 14, 2008, 11:58:28 AM »

maybe a movie or even a drama based on bowling ? that will be like super cool !

RealBowler · « **Reply #10 on:** June 14, 2008, 12:55:08 PM »

I always see people complain about the cost of bowling. Never see people complain about the cost of going to the movies. What is a ticket these days? $9 or so? Throw in a large popcorn and large drink, and that's at least another $10. Double that if you can get the kids to agree to share.

Right there you are talking about $36 for tickets and $20 for snacks. $56 for a family of 4, and that won't even kill 2 hours these days.

I seriously doubt a family of 4 will bowl more than 2 games in an hour - don't rush and have some fun. Try talking to the family in the movie theater!

So, that's only $40. Of course food will kill your wallet!

Still, I don't think you can blame $5/game on hurting the sport. You lay out $100k per lane for equipment that sits idle for a majority of the day. You still have to be open, pay for heating/cooling, electricity, staff salaries, etc for that large open space. Ever stop to think that a bowling center isn't the most efficiently designed building?
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Haywood

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signature. This is enough.
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RealBowler · « **Reply #11 on:** June 14, 2008, 02:07:02 PM »

quote:
quote:

Still, I don't think you can blame $5/game on hurting the sport. You lay out $100k per lane for equipment that sits idle for a majority of the day. You still have to be open, pay for heating/cooling, electricity, staff salaries, etc for that large open space. Ever stop to think that a bowling center isn't the most efficiently designed building?

I cannot disagree more. Centers are the problem. Just like someone posted before that they say Open playis the way to go. Leagues are treated like garbage. I know some leagues are going unsanctioned because of the lack of awards. Centers continue to close and they don't see that Leagues are the money. If centers continue to think like this, we are in real trouble.

Sorry Shotzie, but nowhere did I mention anything about treatment of leagues. If your house is treating your league like crap, you need to find a new place to bowl.

I think the centers need to realize that leagues are a guaranteed source of income, and treat them appropriately. I've walked into plenty of centers that don't have leagues on a certain night, and they are similar to a ghost town. A lot of busy centers during "league time" are basically empty in the summer.

I was just saying that you can't put the blame on the cost of a single game. A lot of centers are packed during cosmic bowl, or on the weekends. If you think lowering the price is going to help....explain that to me. Why fault the center for maximizing it's earning potential? If they didn't discount prices during slow times and charge more during busy times, they'd have to charge an even higher price.

Hopefully that makes sense? The reason some of the centers (and I don't know how it is at your center - or anybody else's) can charge lower prices in the morning and afternoon is because they are making money from cosmic bowling. If they were to cost average it out and charge $3 a game, you're not going to see people take off of work, kids skipping school, etc to go bowling. They are still going to be sitting there basically empty during the day.
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Haywood

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I don't need a stupid
signature. This is enough.
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nextbowler · « **Reply #12 on:** June 14, 2008, 02:17:46 PM »

I have the good bowling fortune to live in Las Vegas, where pricing for
bowling is very competetive. Mostly the cost for open play is around
$1.60. Almost all entertainment is expensive now and bowling is not different.
With gas prices being what they are, many people are staying around home
this summer, which should bode well for bowling.
To help with league participation, people need to recognize the short attention span of the nation today. Winter leagues should be shortened to
about 18 weeks. Then there could be two sessions for winter. I believe that would help the lack of commitment factor.

Smash49 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 14, 2008, 06:52:22 PM »

Some center operators which I will leave nameless(Not Me) think that kids bowling and youth leagues are a bad thing because it hurts their average dollar per line figures. I have actually seen one of these people literally count the frames and make the statement that youth bowlers get 30 frames period when bowling matches. A few are also very anti coaching along with this attitude. They actually hurt bowling.

Smash49
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Smash49

Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
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looseleftie · « **Reply #14 on:** June 15, 2008, 06:39:33 AM »

This is always an interesting discussion, one that has a multitude of answers and suggestions. Heres my take on this.

Bowling has declined (league bowling) at least where I live. There are 5 resons , one no more important than the other, but each plays their part in this.

1- Promotion - Bowling is a serious sport, but also a great pastime too. ho promotes our sport, aside from people within the industry. People DO NOT take bowling seriously!! Can you blame them, before I began bowling 8 yrs ago, I thought it was a bit of a basic and dull game...A game tradionally for people of the unfit and sluggish disposition. where is the Michael Jordan of bowling? Do we have a role model, imagine Parker Bohn, with the confidence/showmanship/ arrogance of a Sean Rash. Makes great entertainment.

2- Lifestyle - There are sooooo many other things to do, and with work and family commitments, it can be hard to find the time, or be that interested in going out after work to bowl, when your armchair and your TV are both looking good.

3- The cost.... I understand that AMF (my centre) has actually figured out their costs/margins etc.. Still, in open player the cost can be equiv $11 US for a single game. For families even with their shopping discount vouchers, it works out way too much.... Once bitten twice shy. These families do not come back within the week, fortnight and probably not within the next couple of months. When social bowlers do come in, the idea I'm guessing would be to offer GREAT customer service, talk to them, sell them the idea of improvement and join a league. Take some coaching to get you going.. Some centres are brilliant at it (it really comes down to the manager..they must get their staff to do the sell)... Can you imagine if the average furniture or electrical appliance store salesman, put the same amount of effort that many involved in customer service at your local bowling centre put in. They would by the end of the month, get their butt fired....

Centres are a business, but to think that they can lose league bowlers and leagues, thinking that open/cosmic bowling/bowling parties make up their livelihood is not smart business. I bowl in a centre where there is a reasonable number of leagues, but they have dropped since I began. This is guaranteed money in the bank...
Lower league prices a little would help, several teams have pulled out due to financial constraints..

4- Kids.. We must keep junior bolwers bowling, and involve the parents in this. Ensure that the enviroment is a real buzz to bowl in, make it something that they would hate to miss out on. Have coaching staff involved in their leagues, talking to parents and the kids with the idea in mind to book a fortnightly/even month lesson. Focus on Self IMPROVEMENT, get the parents interested in the idea, and have some parent/child competitions each season.
Can't afford to lose these kids!! Think of the pyramid.. The base of the pyramid is the kids... This is also applies to adult bowlers, who bowl a season or two then stop... With both junior and adult bowlers in a lot of cases, they try league bowling, then they stop, and do not participate in it again... I have seen so many teams and individuals start and stop.. You will not get them back.

5- just thought of this one. Have shorter seasons, in US you have summer and fall leagues. I bowl in a 35 week league. Shorten leagues to 15-20 weeks, or more seasonal leagues. just an idea.

Bowling is a business, that has many competitors, the competitors can offer their product at a cheaper price... A lot of this debate comes down to money and time.. Bowling locks you in each week, playing social tennis for $4 a night for two hours where if you want to play, play, if not,then don't. There are many sports that have got onto this... Indoor soccer, badminton, tennis and many others.. something to think about, imagine turning up and bowl a social league, keep pries low, four to a team say.. Book out half your centre at least I'm guessing.

Take it easy
looseleftie

Author Topic: Reviving Bowling (Read 3057 times)

scadreau

Reviving Bowling

1MechEng

Re: Reviving Bowling

n00dlejester

Re: Reviving Bowling

leftyinsnellville

Re: Reviving Bowling

n00dlejester

Re: Reviving Bowling

Artimust

Re: Reviving Bowling

BOWL119

Re: Reviving Bowling

Graaille

Re: Reviving Bowling

GutterLine

Re: Reviving Bowling

loopy

Re: Reviving Bowling

RealBowler

Re: Reviving Bowling

RealBowler

Re: Reviving Bowling

nextbowler

Re: Reviving Bowling

Smash49

Re: Reviving Bowling

looseleftie

Re: Reviving Bowling