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Author Topic: Ridiculous PAP  (Read 5871 times)

asdfg68plus1

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Ridiculous PAP
« on: November 25, 2009, 09:39:07 AM »
Hey all, a little while ago, I decided to find my PAP with my spare ball, and when I finally got the piece of tape to be perfectly still, I left it there, and measured it when I got home.  My PAP came out to be something like 6 3/4 right, and 1 1/5 up.  This is significantly farther than any that I've heard of.  Is this a bad thing? If I were to adjust something to get it closer, what difference would that make on my reaction?
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shelley

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Re: Ridiculous PAP
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2009, 05:47:05 PM »
You would be tracking almost through the center of grip with a PAP like that.  Even through the grip.  Is that what's going on?

SH
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JessN16

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Re: Ridiculous PAP
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2009, 05:52:50 PM »
quote:
You would be tracking almost through the center of grip with a PAP like that.  Even through the grip.  Is that what's going on?

SH


Not necessarily. You can also track 90 degrees to that point.

Example: Someone whose PAP is grip center (0 over 0 up) could either be spinning the ball like a top, or could have the ball laid over in such a way that the ball is tilted 90 degrees with grip center facing directly to the side. Granted, it would take some kind of hideous wrist action to do this, but it's possible.

In order to figure out where the OP's PAP is without seeing it, we also need him to tell us what his track diameter is. That will help us infer tilt and give us a clearer picture of where the track actually is.

Jess
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asdfg68plus1

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Re: Ridiculous PAP
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2009, 06:00:06 PM »
The track is always a good bit over my thumb, and comes maybe half an inch from my middle finger.
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JohnP

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Re: Ridiculous PAP
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2009, 07:26:47 PM »
Are you sure you're not a full roller?  See link, below.  --  JohnP

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kennmelvin/tTracks.htm
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asdfg68plus1

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Re: Ridiculous PAP
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2009, 07:52:49 PM »
I''m pretty positive I''m not, and that link is shut down. Also, the flare is never to the right of the thumb hole, just over it.

Edited on 11/25/2009 8:54 PM
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Kid Jete

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Re: Ridiculous PAP
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2009, 08:27:32 PM »
Throw plastic and use the first oil ring to find your PAP.  See if the results differ from what you originally got and then we'll go from there.  I would guess you definitely measured wrong somewhere though.
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asdfg68plus1

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Re: Ridiculous PAP
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2009, 08:36:19 PM »
Hopefully I'll go bowling soon, so I'll try again.
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pro shop guy

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Re: Ridiculous PAP
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2009, 09:30:40 PM »
full roller is a VERY good possibility. Does your pro shop know you? or have they seen you bowl? If not. I suggest asking him-her to watch you bowl and they will be able to find out exactly whats going on. I have had 2 people in the past 2 yrs that came to me with the same situation. The place they had the ball drilled just did a generic label drill.....comes to find out they were full rollers.
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asdfg68plus1

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Re: Ridiculous PAP
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2009, 09:33:55 PM »
The pro shop guy has watched me specifically, but just for general purpose, but the coach of my team was telling me that we need to lower my PAP a lot.  Would being a full roller make two different balls drilled differently react more similar, or does that have nothing to do with it?
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Mike E

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Re: Ridiculous PAP
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2009, 07:40:17 AM »
Sounds like you bowl like I do. My Pap is 6&1/4 over, 1&1/2 up. I have 90 degree axis rotation which comes from coming off the side of the ball at release.Basically suitcasing the release. If the center you bowl at doesn't put down much oil you will always struggle when the lanes are dry. With this release every ball I own that has a conventional drill rolls right next to the middle finger and then over the thumb hole. The full roller drills that I have tried do make the ball track between the fingers and thumb. Works best when I put the pin in the 7:30 direction with C.G. in the center of grip ( I'm a righty).You can also try the pin in 9:00 o'clock position for medium reaction and pin in 10:30 direction for least reaction. You can also vary the pin to center of grip distance anywhere from 3&3/8"(max.reaction to 1&1/2" mildest reaction). I currently use a Roto Grip Venus, Mars and Neptune. Drilled pin 2" to grip center, pin in a 10:30 direction. this works out pretty well for most T.H.S. shots. I can use lower differential balls with full roller drills more successfully because full roller drills tend to roll earlier than most.

                                   Mike E
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Stan

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Re: Ridiculous PAP
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2009, 07:59:48 AM »
Mike if your pap is over 6 inches, you can not come off the side of the ball that much.  Usually, pap in that range stay under and come thru the ball and not off the side.  Side of the ball releases have a much lower track.
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dizzyfugu

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Re: Ridiculous PAP
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2009, 08:12:17 AM »
Quote
Are you sure you're not a full roller?  See link, below.  --  JohnP

Second that - from the PAP measures, the initial track should run way between the thumb and the finger holes? Do you break back your wrist a lot?
--------------------
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section
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DizzyFugu ~ Reporting from Germany

Mike E

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Re: Ridiculous PAP
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2009, 08:13:18 AM »
Stan-I actually hold the ball with my hand in the 3 o'clock position and rotate it up to the 12 o'clock position upon release. So actually my hand is never under or behind the ball.
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asdfg68plus1

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Re: Ridiculous PAP
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2009, 08:47:11 AM »
quote:
quote:
Are you sure you''''''''re not a full roller?  See link, below.  --  JohnP


Second that - from the PAP measures, the initial track should run way between the thumb and the finger holes? Do you break back your wrist a lot?
--------------------
<font face=''''''''Arial''''''''>DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com''''''''s vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section</font id=''''''''Arial''''''''>

The only time my wrist may be broken a lot is right at the release, but before the release, I have my wrist cocked and have my fingers at about 7:30-8:00 on the ball.

quote:
Mike if your pap is over 6 inches, you can not come off the side of the ball that much. Usually, pap in that range stay under and come thru the ball and not off the side. Side of the ball releases have a much lower track.


I used to get just about 90 degree axis rotation because I would come around the ball a lot, but I''''''''ve been working on coming more up the back.  I also seem to have a good amount of axis tilt, I don''''''''t know if that makes a difference, but it seems more than most people.



Edited on 11/26/2009 9:53 AM
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