Author Topic: Rule on cleaning (Read 11568 times)

daves123 · « **on:** September 07, 2019, 09:01:10 AM »

With all the new rules coming down what is the rule on cleaning your ball during league play?
Can you use an approved cleaner? Can you use a shammy? Can you even use a dry towel?

ignitebowling · « **Reply #16 on:** September 08, 2019, 02:32:47 PM »

Keep in mind the only thing the rule has changed is now we have to ask permission to continue doing what we have been doing for years. We are just short of being 6 year old kids getting permission to go to the bathroom.

Great to those who don't have this issue. For those who do and bowl tournaments in multiple locations, higher number of games, or in crap centers we now have to go ask someone who will say yes to then clean said ball. Yeah bowling is saved. Could have taken 3 seconds and some spit to resolve the problem but lets add extra steps because we can.

I can enjoy watching this train wreck continue to get shot down by the olympics because im sure no one else has issues figuring out the head clown is in over his head and will sink usbc as gracefully as he did Columbia300.

ignitebowling · « **Reply #17 on:** September 08, 2019, 02:35:50 PM »

Quote from: Bowler19525 on September 08, 2019, 01:54:16 PM

Quote from: Jesse James on September 08, 2019, 12:02:41 PM

All this sounds wonderful to you folks that have a choice of houses to choose from to play at!

A lot of us DON'T! In some towns there's one house and one house only! And this stuff with the goo happens all the time!

Guys still use rosin bags and throw them on top of balls as well as their personal cleaning pads or towels! This stuff continues to happen! Just because you're lucky enough that it doesn't happen to YOU, doesn't mean it suddenly disappears with this new rule!

To all you stand up guys that love the rule, kudos to YOU! I hate it!

I only have one house to choose from, and this stuff happens all the time. I just bowl. I don't worry about cleaning my ball until bowling is over. Goo and gunk gets on my ball, it is part of bowling. My hands are covered in black dirt at the end of 3 games. If it is really bad, I tell the counter or manager. I don't waste other bowlers time by seeking approval to use a cleaner during competition. I just wipe off what I can with a dry towel, and thoroughly clean my ball with an approved cleaner at the end of the night before putting the ball back in the bag.

If bowlers are regularly putting rosin bags or towels on YOUR ball, you have every right to nicely ask them not to do that. Bowlers have put stuff like that on my ball and I simply pick the rosin bag or towel up and move it. No one should have a problem with it if it was on your ball.

Regardless of how many centers are in a town or area, bowlers still have the ability to voice their concerns at the local and national level. Being a sanctioned bowler gives you the right to attend the public sessions and be involved, or send an email to the USBC. All of the USBC's contact information is on their website, including the direct emails of the rules department and the Executive Director.

No one ever said the rule causes issues to automagically disappear. Bowlers are simply making too much of the rule. It is understandable there will be resistance when people are suddenly told they are no longer allowed to do something they may have been accustomed to doing in the past. In the next year or so, this whole thing should blow over and people will be used to the dry towel only rule.

You could run commercials for usbc. Yes its stupid, but you will get use to it and it will blow over.
#growthesport

Bowler19525 · « **Reply #18 on:** September 08, 2019, 03:37:29 PM »

Quote from: ignitebowling on September 08, 2019, 02:35:50 PM

You could run commercials for usbc. Yes its stupid, but you will get use to it and it will blow over.
#growthesport

I am not trying to run commercials nor saying I agree with everything the USBC is doing. It is just interesting to see the dry towel rule getting so much attention, and kind of illustrates the USBC's point that bowlers were regularly using some sort of product on their ball during bowling. The USBC is trying to eliminate bowlers manipulating their bowling equipment unfairly during competition, and unfortunately this is one of the steps they took to achieve that goal.

I personally knew of bowlers who previously were using either "never" or "before/after" cleaning products poured into an "anytime" stamped product bottle and using those products during bowling. Bowlers like that helped ruin it for the rest of us.

ignitebowling · « **Reply #19 on:** September 08, 2019, 04:40:04 PM »

Quote from: Bowler19525 on September 08, 2019, 03:37:29 PM

Quote from: ignitebowling on September 08, 2019, 02:35:50 PM

You could run commercials for usbc. Yes its stupid, but you will get use to it and it will blow over.
#growthesport

I am not trying to run commercials nor saying I agree with everything the USBC is doing. It is just interesting to see the dry towel rule getting so much attention, and kind of illustrates the USBC's point that bowlers were regularly using some sort of product on their ball during bowling. The USBC is trying to eliminate bowlers manipulating their bowling equipment unfairly during competition, and unfortunately this is one of the steps they took to achieve that goal.

I personally knew of bowlers who previously were using either "never" or "before/after" cleaning products poured into an "anytime" stamped product bottle and using those products during bowling. Bowlers like that helped ruin it for the rest of us.

Gunk and grime and other residue count as none usbc product on a ball? Especially if it "increased" ball performance some how? The rule fixed bowlers from doing this by asking permission correct?

Bowler19525 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 08, 2019, 05:12:18 PM »

Quote from: ignitebowling on September 08, 2019, 04:40:04 PM

Quote from: Bowler19525 on September 08, 2019, 03:37:29 PM
Quote from: ignitebowling on September 08, 2019, 02:35:50 PM

You could run commercials for usbc. Yes its stupid, but you will get use to it and it will blow over.
#growthesport

I am not trying to run commercials nor saying I agree with everything the USBC is doing. It is just interesting to see the dry towel rule getting so much attention, and kind of illustrates the USBC's point that bowlers were regularly using some sort of product on their ball during bowling. The USBC is trying to eliminate bowlers manipulating their bowling equipment unfairly during competition, and unfortunately this is one of the steps they took to achieve that goal.

I personally knew of bowlers who previously were using either "never" or "before/after" cleaning products poured into an "anytime" stamped product bottle and using those products during bowling. Bowlers like that helped ruin it for the rest of us.

Gunk and grime and other residue count as none usbc product on a ball? Especially if it "increased" ball performance some how? The rule fixed bowlers from doing this by asking permission correct?

The rule tries to address the issue of bowlers manipulating the surface of the ball during competition. Increased performance was allegedly coming from bowlers using inappropriate cleaners during bowling and altering the ball surface. Asking for permission to use an approved cleaner attempts to control the use of cleaners during play, but it puts a lot of responsibility on league officers to both approve the use of a cleaner in every situation presented to them and make sure the new rule isn't being abused.

Every ball is going to get lane oil, gunk, and grime on it during bowling. It is unavoidable and part of the sport. Wipe the ball off with a dry towel and bowl on. Trying to have a pristine ball surface on every single shot is unreasonable and impractical. Bowlers are now pushing the limits of what constitutes a "foreign substance" to justify the need to clean their ball with a cleaner during play.

ignitebowling · « **Reply #21 on:** September 08, 2019, 07:41:21 PM »

People including usbc buying into products such as "the purple stuff" etc increasing ball performance or altering it is sales at its best. Remember all the marketing of this by manufacturers were all usbc approved products.

All are still usbc approved products. Alleged none approved stuff would still be allowed when in an approved bottle right?

So we literally added an extra step of inconvenience to continue what we already allowed.

Bowler19525 · « **Reply #22 on:** September 09, 2019, 08:46:18 AM »

Quote from: ignitebowling on September 08, 2019, 07:41:21 PM

People including usbc buying into products such as "the purple stuff" etc increasing ball performance or altering it is sales at its best. Remember all the marketing of this by manufacturers were all usbc approved products.

All are still usbc approved products. Alleged none approved stuff would still be allowed when in an approved bottle right?

So we literally added an extra step of inconvenience to continue what we already allowed.

The products were tested and approved by the USBC as either "anytime" [no change to ball surface] or "Before/After" [product causes a material change to ball surface]. There were also products given a status of "Never". When bowlers start putting the "never" and "before/after" products in an "anytime" bottle and use them during competition they are cheating.

Putting a "never" or "before/after" product in an "anytime" bottle does not suddenly make that cleaner approved for use during competition.

The extra step was necessary to bring fairness to the game and deal with the cheaters who felt they were entitled to manipulate their equipment during competition.

The whole issue is avoided when people simply use a dry towel during bowling, and clean their stuff with whatever USBC approved product they wish when they are done.

spmcgivern · « **Reply #23 on:** September 09, 2019, 08:54:44 AM »

Devil's advocate.....

I understand the philosophy of why USBC may have implemented this rule. But I can't think of a time someone has been caught using an improper cleaning agent during competition. And if the concern was real, I would think this site would have had a field day with it. Yet in my 13 years on this website I have not seen a single mention of an actual case of this. There has been talk of how it could be done, but nothing more.

Do I think it is being done, probably, but I can't tell the difference. If there is no benefit, does it really need to be regulated so strictly? I feel this could be a case of USBC trying to be proactive with a rule when in reality I am not sure it would ever be an issue. Maybe they were getting a lot of correspondence asking about CLT products and decided to nip the issue in the bud.

Also, if USBC is going to eliminate the during/after/never designation on cleaners, does this mean any cleaner can be used during after receiving permission? Will it become one list and we can use anything from that list including those that were never approved for during competition?

BowlingForDonuts · « **Reply #24 on:** September 09, 2019, 11:42:34 AM »

Quote from: spmcgivern on September 09, 2019, 08:54:44 AM

Devil's advocate.....

I understand the philosophy of why USBC may have implemented this rule. But I can't think of a time someone has been caught using an improper cleaning agent during competition. And if the concern was real, I would think this site would have had a field day with it. Yet in my 13 years on this website I have not seen a single mention of an actual case of this. There has been talk of how it could be done, but nothing more.

Do I think it is being done, probably, but I can't tell the difference. If there is no benefit, does it really need to be regulated so strictly? I feel this could be a case of USBC trying to be proactive with a rule when in reality I am not sure it would ever be an issue. Maybe they were getting a lot of correspondence asking about CLT products and decided to nip the issue in the bud.

Also, if USBC is going to eliminate the during/after/never designation on cleaners, does this mean any cleaner can be used during after receiving permission? Will it become one list and we can use anything from that list including those that were never approved for during competition?

CTD products of course. That does make some sense. Sigh. Hook Juice for the lose. Why we can't have nice things. Silly rule but whatever (don't clean during sets). Just hope they don't keep making rules that bug us rec league bowlers just because of the pros on sport side though. #WeAreTheMajority

NY Mike · « **Reply #25 on:** September 09, 2019, 01:34:23 PM »

I don't seeing this being a major issue, ball returns occasionally leave belt marks which may require cleaning fluid. I don't see too many people gaining a competitve advantage with cleaning fluids. Now 20 years ago, I use to bowl against a guy who would sand his ball during games 1 & 2 for the fresh and would normally add polish to same ball for game 3. Now we are talking about adjusting the surface....any other war stories out there ?

ignitebowling · « **Reply #26 on:** September 09, 2019, 05:18:53 PM »

Quote from: Bowler19525 on September 09, 2019, 08:46:18 AM

Quote from: ignitebowling on September 08, 2019, 07:41:21 PM
People including usbc buying into products such as "the purple stuff" etc increasing ball performance or altering it is sales at its best. Remember all the marketing of this by manufacturers were all usbc approved products.

All are still usbc approved products. Alleged none approved stuff would still be allowed when in an approved bottle right?

So we literally added an extra step of inconvenience to continue what we already allowed.

The products were tested and approved by the USBC as either "anytime" [no change to ball surface] or "Before/After" [product causes a material change to ball surface]. There were also products given a status of "Never". When bowlers start putting the "never" and "before/after" products in an "anytime" bottle and use them during competition they are cheating.

Putting a "never" or "before/after" product in an "anytime" bottle does not suddenly make that cleaner approved for use during competition.

The extra step was necessary to bring fairness to the game and deal with the cheaters who felt they were entitled to manipulate their equipment during competition.

The whole issue is avoided when people simply use a dry towel during bowling, and clean their stuff with whatever USBC approved product they wish when they are done.

This rule did none of that. That's the point

Bowler19525 · « **Reply #27 on:** September 09, 2019, 06:55:26 PM »

Quote from: ignitebowling on September 09, 2019, 05:18:53 PM

Quote from: Bowler19525 on September 09, 2019, 08:46:18 AM
Quote from: ignitebowling on September 08, 2019, 07:41:21 PM
People including usbc buying into products such as "the purple stuff" etc increasing ball performance or altering it is sales at its best. Remember all the marketing of this by manufacturers were all usbc approved products.

All are still usbc approved products. Alleged none approved stuff would still be allowed when in an approved bottle right?

So we literally added an extra step of inconvenience to continue what we already allowed.

The products were tested and approved by the USBC as either "anytime" [no change to ball surface] or "Before/After" [product causes a material change to ball surface]. There were also products given a status of "Never". When bowlers start putting the "never" and "before/after" products in an "anytime" bottle and use them during competition they are cheating.

Putting a "never" or "before/after" product in an "anytime" bottle does not suddenly make that cleaner approved for use during competition.

The extra step was necessary to bring fairness to the game and deal with the cheaters who felt they were entitled to manipulate their equipment during competition.

The whole issue is avoided when people simply use a dry towel during bowling, and clean their stuff with whatever USBC approved product they wish when they are done.

This rule did none of that. That's the point

If bowlers do not abuse the new rule, it certainly solves the problem. If bowlers take it upon themselves to use a cleaner without league officer approval they are now cheating and their games are subject to forfeit.

If what you are trying to say is that a league officer is just going to arbitrarily allow every bowler that approaches them to use whatever they want to clean a ball, then that is an issue and not in the spirit of the rule. Shame on that league or tournament official.

BowlingForDonuts · « **Reply #28 on:** September 09, 2019, 07:42:01 PM »

Quote from: Bowler19525 on September 09, 2019, 06:55:26 PM

Quote from: ignitebowling on September 09, 2019, 05:18:53 PM
Quote from: Bowler19525 on September 09, 2019, 08:46:18 AM
Quote from: ignitebowling on September 08, 2019, 07:41:21 PM
People including usbc buying into products such as "the purple stuff" etc increasing ball performance or altering it is sales at its best. Remember all the marketing of this by manufacturers were all usbc approved products.

All are still usbc approved products. Alleged none approved stuff would still be allowed when in an approved bottle right?

So we literally added an extra step of inconvenience to continue what we already allowed.

The products were tested and approved by the USBC as either "anytime" [no change to ball surface] or "Before/After" [product causes a material change to ball surface]. There were also products given a status of "Never". When bowlers start putting the "never" and "before/after" products in an "anytime" bottle and use them during competition they are cheating.

Putting a "never" or "before/after" product in an "anytime" bottle does not suddenly make that cleaner approved for use during competition.

The extra step was necessary to bring fairness to the game and deal with the cheaters who felt they were entitled to manipulate their equipment during competition.

The whole issue is avoided when people simply use a dry towel during bowling, and clean their stuff with whatever USBC approved product they wish when they are done.

This rule did none of that. That's the point

If bowlers do not abuse the new rule, it certainly solves the problem. If bowlers take it upon themselves to use a cleaner without league officer approval they are now cheating and their games are subject to forfeit.

If what you are trying to say is that a league officer is just going to arbitrarily allow every bowler that approaches them to use whatever they want to clean a ball, then that is an issue and not in the spirit of the rule. Shame on that league or tournament official.

Yeah who do these league officials think they are being too cheap to bring a mass spectrometer in to verify every claim. At best maybe the inconvenience reduces the number of opportunities to cheat slightly but as said this will have more unintended than intended consequences.

Juggernaut · « **Reply #29 on:** September 09, 2019, 08:36:33 PM »

Letting joe bowler, with his 150, 160, 170, or 180 average clean the goo off his ball between frames should NOT be a problem.

I dont care if hes using a scotchbrite, 500 grit sandpaper, and acetone to do it with either.

His average is what it is for a reason. Cleaning the ball has been legal for decades, and yet his average is still what it was 20 yrs ago.

USBC has had some dumb fu****g rules before, but this one just blows my damn mind.

Let people clean their damn balls, just make it legal for everybody to do, and were good.

Bowler19525 · « **Reply #30 on:** September 10, 2019, 01:04:10 PM »

I asked the USBC to further define what constitutes a "foreign substance". They responded with the following:

The prohibition on adding a foreign substance to the outer surface of the ball are specific to items a bowler may possess that they introduce to the outer surface of the ball. It does not refer to the lane oil that the ball may pick up on its trek down the lanes or to anything that the ball may pick up through the actions of the pinsetter or ball returns.

So lane oil, grease, belt burns/waxy substances are not considered "foreign substances". The ball can continue to be used with those substances on the surface and still be considered acceptable for use during competition.

Author Topic: Rule on cleaning (Read 11568 times)

daves123

Rule on cleaning

ignitebowling

Re: Rule on cleaning

ignitebowling

Re: Rule on cleaning

Bowler19525

Re: Rule on cleaning

ignitebowling

Re: Rule on cleaning

Bowler19525

Re: Rule on cleaning

ignitebowling

Re: Rule on cleaning

Bowler19525

Re: Rule on cleaning

spmcgivern

Re: Rule on cleaning

BowlingForDonuts

Re: Rule on cleaning

NY Mike

Re: Rule on cleaning

ignitebowling

Re: Rule on cleaning

Bowler19525

Re: Rule on cleaning

BowlingForDonuts

Re: Rule on cleaning

Juggernaut

Re: Rule on cleaning

Bowler19525

Re: Rule on cleaning