Author Topic: Same Layout (Read 6110 times)

Jay · « **on:** July 03, 2008, 06:54:37 PM »

Except maybe for the true oiler and the true dry lane ball of an arsenal, would it be any good to put the same layout on all your equipment? I know almost no one does this, but I figure it would be good for consistency. I find this especially useful if you happen to know a particular layout works well for you in general. Of course, I guess the down fall would be very similar looks on the the lane. The layout you choose may not work so well for you with one ball as another ball due to what the balls were originally meant to do.

Thoughts?

charlest · « **Reply #1 on:** July 04, 2008, 06:46:03 AM »

Conceivably, if you used balls that are different enough from one another in their basic ball reaction, then yes.
BUT if you want to bowl good tournaments or National torunaments or PBA tournaments or PBA Experience leagues, then, more than likely, if you did, you might not have the versatility and flexibility to score well. There's a remote chance, though, if you have a lot of release changes (4 - 8 skilled ones) in your repertoire.

Otherwise, there are so many things they can do with oil patterns these days, you need a wide variety of ball reactions to succeed.
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dizzyfugu · « **Reply #2 on:** July 04, 2008, 07:07:30 AM »

Personally, I'd drill a ball in a way that enhances its basic reaction and that fits to the desired lane conditions. E.g. length drilling with a high pin for a ball for lighter conditions, paired with a higher RG core and a polished surface. Or a pin-down, rolly/arcing layout for a low RG/high RG diff. oil ball with a matte surface. I like to see the overall "package", the drilling is just one piece in the puzzle.

While there is IMHO nothing wrong with a personal "standard" drilling (my favorite is a 4.5" from PAP pin above the fingers, CG stacked), I'd suggest having at least the more extreme balls drilled up for their specific purpose, to exploit the ball's and your potential with it. There are times when you really need a different reaction shape on the condition at hand, and if you have complemtary/differing options in the bag (or through the release), this makes life much easier. IMO, a standard drilling arsenal just leaves too little room, even though you can surely do something though different surface preps. But the drilling gives an additional adge that I would not underestimate or neglect.
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Edited on 7/4/2008 8:39 AM

Grayson · « **Reply #3 on:** July 04, 2008, 07:44:50 AM »

funny thing....

I have seen balls... the drilling was completely the opposite this ball was "meant" to be... I've seen smooth drillings on backend balls and the other way round...

then I think about the state:
"you cannot make a smooth ball flip and a smoothing out a flip ball is just waste of potential"

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AngloBowler · « **Reply #4 on:** July 04, 2008, 08:02:05 AM »

I've got my impulse zone drilled with a long, high pin. I really like the reaction it gives me because the nature of the ball makes it pick up nicely in the midlane, smoothing out the overall reaction, whilst the high pin means it can get far enough down the lane and conserve enough energy for the pins.
I had my tropical storm drilled pin in palm and didn't get on with it at all, lots of over/under and lacking power at the headpin.
I'm trying to illustrate that it is possible to drill a ball against it's natural characteristics and have good results, but bad ones can occur also. I, generally, prefer the 5.5" pin above the fingers (have it on three balls) each one gives me a specific look based and they are different enough to give me substantively different reactions.
A lot of care has to go into the choice of ball and drilling considering what you want from the ball. I've been told by a coach of mine that in order to compete on tougher patterns at higher standard tournaments, a 6 ball arsenal is recommended. If you only have one release, then you would need another ball for specific scenarios, but if you can achieve the results physically, then that's less weight to carry around...
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Oldskool2 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 04, 2008, 08:29:24 AM »

This is something I've been thinking of frequently. For example a drilling with the pin near or in the ringfinger and then let the ball make the difference.

There are people who do the exact opposite. I can remember that Chitown had a whole arsenal build with the Doom, just with different layouts and coverstock finish. I think this will give a wider range in your arsenal.

I let it drill like Dizzyfugu and let the layout bring out the characteristics of the ball.

I don't understand why people drill a strong ball weak. Why don't buy a weaker ball then. There must be a good explanation, because enough people do this.
When I read why Dan Belcher did this with his Cell it makes sence, but normally I would say use the full potential of the ball.

chitown · « **Reply #6 on:** July 04, 2008, 11:08:07 AM »

I have tried it both ways. I have used the same exact layout on all my equipment and had very good success. I have also tried using different layouts on all my equipment and did ok.

Currently i'm using the same exact pin placement on all my equipment. I may change the CG and or MB and add or not add a balance hole but the pin placement is going to stay the exact same.

If you drill all your equipment with the same exact layout your still going to see a difference between each ball. Let the cover and cores seperate the reactions.

Now if your going to build a complete arsenal out of one ball (3 or more)like I did with my all DOOM arsenal then different layouts are a must. If your going to drill two of the same ball and have different cover grits then using the same layout is a great idea.

Edited on 7/4/2008 11:13 AM

chitown · « **Reply #7 on:** July 04, 2008, 11:27:54 AM »

quote:
I don't understand why people drill a strong ball weak. Why don't buy a weaker ball then. There must be a good explanation, because enough people do this.
When I read why Dan Belcher did this with his Cell it makes sence, but normally I would say use the full potential of the ball.

I think it all depends on ones approach to drilling up an arsenal.

I build a new arsenal every summer so it's ready for the season. I've approached this a few different ways. As you know I built an entire arsenal out of the same ball with different layouts and cover preps. I still loved that all DOOM arsenal.

I've used the same exact layout on all my equipment and let the covers and cores separate the reactions. This is where the strong ball drilled weak comes into play. Even with the same layout, each ball is still going to show it's own characteristics.

I've tried the approach of drilling each ball different and for what's it's designed to do. I don't like this approach because some of the layouts just don't fit my game and are hard to control.

This game for me is about scoring high and making money in pots/brackets ect... . My best bowling success came from using the same exact layout on all my equipment and letting the covers and cores separate the reactions. That's pretty much the approach i'm taking for this upcoming season.

On a side note: I think too many bowlers put too much into layouts. I think coverstock is king! I truely feel if one were to buy 4 different bowling balls with different types of coverstock and used the exact same layout, they would have one hell of an arsenal. Just let the cover and cores seperate the reactions.

Edited on 7/4/2008 11:33 AM

stormed1 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 04, 2008, 11:39:59 AM »

I agree with Dizzy about enhancing the designed characteristics. That being said I have also done a 3 ball arsenal all with the same layout ( RSP<RSX<RS1). Doing this gave the the same basic shape out of all 3 and let the cover ( particle pearl, reactive solid, reactive pearl ) match up to the oil volume. It made for a nice progression over the course of a tournament as you could just step down in reaction as needed

CPA · « **Reply #9 on:** July 04, 2008, 11:49:27 AM »

I have tried it both ways. I have had the most success with keeping the layout pretty similar, but varying the cover. I have tried drilling the ball in two different layouts. I like one, but hated the other.

Also, I have found certain layouts work well for me on PBA patterns and other layouts work well on house shots. If money were no object, a person could prepare one arsenal for PBA patterns and another arsenal for house shots. Most of us cannot do that. I have found I can make the layouts that I use on PBA patterns work on house shots, but I cannot make house shot layouts work on PBA patterns. As I drill new equipment, I am gradually moving all of my equipment to PBA shot layouts. Then using variations in the cover, and core, for different reactions.
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Dan Belcher · « **Reply #10 on:** July 04, 2008, 02:29:16 PM »

quote:
I don't understand why people drill a strong ball weak. Why don't buy a weaker ball then. There must be a good explanation, because enough people do this.
When I read why Dan Belcher did this with his Cell it makes sence, but normally I would say use the full potential of the ball.

If I take a weaker ball and drill it strong, it's going to respond too quickly to friction for me, and it won't have the same strong cover that gives me a good read through oil and a rolly reaction off the dry. Using weak drills on strong equipment gives me more predictability and better pin action since I don't like a ball that turns left as soon as it hits dry. I personally hate strong drilled equipment for the most part -- I always face overreaction and burnup whenever I get the ball out of the oil.

Jay · « **Reply #11 on:** July 04, 2008, 04:53:06 PM »

This has turned out to be quite a topic

.

All good points made by everyone here. I guess once again it will depend on the bowler when it comes to layouts. Notice I asked if it would be good for everything in your arsenal except the true oiler and dry lane ball. I did that because for me, I'd want a strong layout for true heavy oil and a really weak one for super dry lanes. Everything in between having the same layout would be awesome in my opinion. I just can't tell if I have more success with a particular pin placement, because I've never had the same one twice and all my equipment in the last two years has been good for me, as long as the surface prep was right.

Oldskool2 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 04, 2008, 04:55:02 PM »

quote:
Quote

If I take a weaker ball and drill it strong, it's going to respond too quickly to friction for me, and it won't have the same strong cover that gives me a good read through oil and a rolly reaction off the dry. Using weak drills on strong equipment gives me more predictability and better pin action since I don't like a ball that turns left as soon as it hits dry. I personally hate strong drilled equipment for the most part -- I always face overreaction and burnup whenever I get the ball out of the oil.

Dan, what would you consider as a weak drilling?

I personally don't like the snap in the back either. I just can't get a hold of it. I love to see this reaction with others, but I need control and predictability.

When I thought this over , I was thinking of a layout with the pin beside or in the ringfinger. Is it true this is kind of neutral and for control?

Antoine

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #13 on:** July 04, 2008, 05:48:51 PM »

What I mean is the strongest thing I have in my bag is a 4.5" pin to pap distance, pin up just above the right half of the ring finger for me. My Cell is just shy of being 6" away from my PAP, down under my middle finger. I love stuff around 5 inches from my axis point, I can mix pin up and down to give myself different entry angles. The idea is to lower the flare and create some length. Therefore I can use a little surface to give me a smoother roll and less snap off the dry, and I can stand a few boards further right to stay in my comfort zone (I am not very comfortable playing 3rd arrow and deeper, though I can certainly do it when necessary)

Edit -- here's a picture of my Cell (plus a sweet Cell keychain that my ball driller got for me

) http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/6016/cellandsweetkeychainuj0.jpg Bear in mind the same drilling may look different for you if your PAP is not the same as mine. My pap is roughly 5 1/4" over by 3/4" up, though the vertical may chance a little depending on my hand position

Edited on 7/4/2008 7:12 PM

Jay · « **Reply #14 on:** July 05, 2008, 02:32:33 AM »

Dan, I assume the cell is your heavy oil ball? If so why would you want to create more length and less flare with it? A 6" pin to PAP would give a lot of length but not necessarily kill the flare like 1-2" would, is that right?

I ask because I consider myself slightly rev dominant, and I could possibly use different distances to my advantage. A lot of the time, my equipment reacts more to try than I'd like. Is that what flare affects? You also said you could alternate between pin up and pin down. Are you saying you like putting your pins in the same position as your Cell has except above the ring, and that would give you the 5" pin to PAP?

My favorite ball right now actually has that particular pin placement(above the ring) but for me that's 4.5" from my PAP since my coordinates are smaller. That must mean pins over my middle will give me around 5" but I don't know where it'd have to go when under the fingers to be 5".

Anyways, I'm just saying it seems that someone like me could use longer pin to PAP distances to have more control. At least that's what seems would be a good idea with anything except a heavy oil ball and a dry lane ball. Would 2" pin to PAP layouts be good for that dry lane ball?

Author Topic: Same Layout (Read 6110 times)

Jay

Same Layout

charlest

Re: Same Layout

dizzyfugu

Re: Same Layout

Grayson

Re: Same Layout

AngloBowler

Re: Same Layout

Oldskool2

Re: Same Layout

chitown

Re: Same Layout

chitown

Re: Same Layout

stormed1

Re: Same Layout

CPA

Re: Same Layout

Dan Belcher

Re: Same Layout

Jay

Re: Same Layout

Oldskool2

Re: Same Layout

Dan Belcher

Re: Same Layout

Jay

Re: Same Layout