BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: xrayjay on June 03, 2014, 01:21:51 PM
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bowling: is it a sport or not?
Saw a post on FaceBook about this old debate. And this subject actually happened 2 weeks ago with a couple of bowlers.
IMO, it's a sport and a game. Bowl PBA regionals/tour and non THS tourney's with High $$ involved, it's a sport. Bowl THS league or for fun, it's a game. The END!!
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WEIGHT!!!
John Daly
"The Frig" Perry
David Wells
Shaun Kemp
Shaq
ButterBean
Akebono and Sumo
Smallwood :P
All Athletes......
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I think THS leagues should still be considered sport.
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bowling is a sport if done in a competitive manner. Cosmic bowling for fun with the kids is a game. League and tournament bowling is a sport.
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I disagree. THS leagues are a game. Tougher patterns and sport shots are sport. If I can walk into a center after not bowling for 3 weeks, no warm up, and shoot 750, it's not a sport. You can bowl on most THS drunk as a skunk and still shoot 600, which is "par", right?
The finest bowlers in the world don't even want to bowl on most house shots because it's destructive to their actual money making game. Heck, *I* don't want to bowl on the house shot, and I'm not even that good!
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Oh boy! This always brings out all the purist, look down your nose guys in droves!
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Telling people who bowl in competitive leagues they are not competing in sport is borderline insulting, in my opinion. I don't care how easy the shot is.
If we as a bowling community want the 'sport' to grow, then we shouldn't be stating that only half of the sport/game is an actual sport. That's lame.
It seems that THS equates to drunk hacks every time this debate comes up. I spend a lot of time on this site and I have very rarely felt insulted.
Rec league basketball is a sport. Bar league softball is a sport. Bar league volleyball is a sport. Bar league kickball is a sport. Thursday night league bowling is a sport.
If you've never felt competitive in a scratch THS league, then you need to re-evaluate what your definition of completion is.
I appreciate difficult oil patterns and never turn down the chance to bowl on them for competition, but that doesn't mean I look down my nose at the 'easy' ones.
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I still have to agree with Doom. Scratch leagues on a house shot are borderline, but I would probably call that a sport more than a game. I wouldn't really call anything a sport unless there's some semi-serious to serious competition going on.
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sport/spɔrt, spoʊrt/ Show Spelled [spawrt, spohrt]
noun
1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
2. a particular form of this, especially in the out of doors.
3. diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime.
4. jest; fun; mirth; pleasantry: What he said in sport was taken seriously.
5. mockery; ridicule; derision: They made sport of him.
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One of the guys said to me, "bowling doesn't have any "defense" so it's not a sport."
Well, what about golf, skeet shooting, bass fishing, bull riding, surfing, etc....???
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When the game of bowling makes the sport of bowling a joke, it's time to look down your nose at it. I apologize if you are offended, but bowling for money in your Monday night league on a THS where the breakpoint is 5 boards or more is not a sport. Athletes play sports. Athletes are finely tuned machines that can make the sport look somewhat easy, where the rest of us hacks couldn't hope to be as good as them on their worst day. They work at the SPORT of bowling while the rest of bowlers look at their little one house Ray Charles open shots as a sport. Well, sorry about your bubble, but it's not. It's a damn game, and I will be the FIRST to say that I am ashamed to have to say that, but it is what it is.
I get it. I bowl for money too on a house shot. I've won lots of money on the house shot. Does that make me an athlete? Does that make anything that I won on a house shot anything more than a carry contest? No. When you can nozzle it all over the lane like kids playing with a hose and still carry, it's not a sport.
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I loving bowling. But to me, it's a game. Don't get me wrong, it can be very competitive and challenging. It does require physical ability and some tournaments or formats can be very physically demanding. But so can a horseshoe tournament in the middle of the summer, that doesn't make it a sport.
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Like I mentioned in my OP
I think it's a sport and a game, depending on the conditions or status (league bowler vs. get paid to do it - pros)
I agree with DOOM and Dogtown... but for fat guys like myself, anything that makes me sweat is a sport :D SHEET, eating at a chinese buffet is a sport....Damn it's lunch time..
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"Bowling's great. You gotta love a sport you can eat while you play. Never see that in tennis!
"It's a different sport. There's an ash tray built into the bowling equipment. Poker doesn't even have that."
"And that hand dryer thing! If you're sweating while your bowling, you're outta shape! If you're outta shape and you're bowling, you're probably a professional bowler!"
- Jim Gaffigan
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before this serve let me dig into these nachos
if youre like me bowling is the thing you do after you do everything else. we could go bowling......or we could hang ourselves.......why dont we go bowling?
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So when I was playing baseball in an organized league with my friends into my 40s, it wasn't a sport because I wasn't paid for it...? Just for the love of it...? Sweating my ass off, diving for catches, taking the extra base, pitching 8 or 9 innings & being sore afterwards for no money at all, just bragging rights & beer drinking stories was only a game...? Okay...
No. Energy is still being exerted to get from back of approach to foul line & delivering the ball with arm swing to hit objects 60 feet down lane for the goal of knocking them all down is still a sport no matter how much or how little money one gets for it.
When the game of bowling makes the sport of bowling a joke, it's time to look down your nose at it. I apologize if you are offended, but bowling for money in your Monday night league on a THS where the breakpoint is 5 boards or more is not a sport. Athletes play sports. Athletes are finely tuned machines that can make the sport look somewhat easy, where the rest of us hacks couldn't hope to be as good as them on their worst day. They work at the SPORT of bowling while the rest of bowlers look at their little one house Ray Charles open shots as a sport. Well, sorry about your bubble, but it's not. It's a damn game, and I will be the FIRST to say that I am ashamed to have to say that, but it is what it is.
I get it. I bowl for money too on a house shot. I've won lots of money on the house shot. Does that make me an athlete? Does that make anything that I won on a house shot anything more than a carry contest? No. When you can nozzle it all over the lane like kids playing with a hose and still carry, it's not a sport.
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It's a sport. Just because some people don't treat it as a sport, doesn't change that fact.
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Reminds me of some arguments made a few years ago:
Until bowling is recognised as an Olympic sport, it is just a game.
The way some people try to describe bowling as a sport reminds me that the same standards apply to sex. For most it is recreational, but there are some who are professional and get paid well for it too.
There were some others but those two stood out.
I agree that bowling can be either a sport or a game. I tend to treat it as a sport for myself - it is something that I take seriously and I usually join any sport leagues that are available for the personal challenge and chance to learn and improve. I think that those of us on this site take bowling seriously just based on the amount of time invested. :)
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When the game of bowling makes the sport of bowling a joke, it's time to look down your nose at it. I apologize if you are offended, but bowling for money in your Monday night league on a THS where the breakpoint is 5 boards or more is not a sport. Athletes play sports. Athletes are finely tuned machines that can make the sport look somewhat easy, where the rest of us hacks couldn't hope to be as good as them on their worst day. They work at the SPORT of bowling while the rest of bowlers look at their little one house Ray Charles open shots as a sport. Well, sorry about your bubble, but it's not. It's a damn game, and I will be the FIRST to say that I am ashamed to have to say that, but it is what it is.
I get it. I bowl for money too on a house shot. I've won lots of money on the house shot. Does that make me an athlete? Does that make anything that I won on a house shot anything more than a carry contest? No. When you can nozzle it all over the lane like kids playing with a hose and still carry, it's not a sport.
Fair enough. I still disagree.
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Not sure how you can use the lane pattern to decide whether bowling is a sport or not. Cosmic and birthday party environment clearly are not. If bowling on sport patterns is a sport, then any competitive endeavor on a THS is also a sport.
There is nothing wrong with an occasional house shot in a competitive environment. It has as much place as a US open pattern does. Each tests different attributes of a bowlers game. I have often used this example. If I can beat you on a sport pattern, but you can beat me on a house shot, who is better? This is a very relevant example, because I see this situation all the time.
The determination of whether bowling is a sport or a game has nothing to do with the scoring level in any particular environment
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Impending Doom link=topic=302937.msg2474864#msg2474864 date=1401821794
I disagree. THS leagues are a game. Tougher patterns and sport shots are sport. If I can walk into a center after not bowling for 3 weeks, no warm up, and shoot 750, it's not a sport. You can bowl on most THS drunk as a skunk and still shoot 600, which is "par", right?
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200 is no longer PAR. This isn't 1980 anymore.
Also, I'd bet money the 1-5% of the golf world could take 3 years off and come back and play a municipal course from the white tees and demolish PAR.
That's what most THS is to a golf course. Why can the top 1-5 % destroy PAR at golf, because they can still PUTT. A municipal course won't require you to split the fairway. You aren't playing a US Open course your first time back are you?
Play a tough course without practice and you will struggle. Play a tough bowling condition with no practice, same result.
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It is both depending on the enviroment.
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Honestly, after reading these posts, this is a tough one....
From my experiences with several sports I've been involved in, when I wasn't 110% there mentally when playing first base, calling/running the plays, making tackles, bowling, etc...my mental thought was..."it's just a game." Also, I've thought of bowling as a game, to hang out with the boys and such. But, I've worked hard and invested money and time to hopefully get better. Traveled to other states to do tourney's fun or serioius ones. By doing this, I consider bowling as a sport - blood and sweat.
when you commit your physical and mental self into a sport, dedicate time to get better, invest money and time, etc..individually, you can think of it as a sport...Other countries treat bowling as a serious sport. Nationally, the needle is leaning on the "game side'.......(do to the stereo type of the past and present)
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Listen, I am among the group of people that would love to shut everyone up when it comes to this whole game vs sport thing. I've been looked at as a loon for defending bowling to people ever since I could pick up a ball and throw one. Facts are facts. No one sees the challenge in the sport because it's so easy for anyone to pick up a ball from their local pro shop, and go shoot lights out because of the lane conditions. Bowlers around the world bowl on grind out conditions to get them better. You know what we do here? We complain when they're not easy. "Oh, my fragile ego demands that I walk out of here with at least 600 every night, or else I am going to cry about it."
Listen, this can become a tangent about how lazy we are as a country, and that's a whole other can of worms for the non moderated forum, but fact is, bowling in this country gets no respect because it's easy for the masses. Since there is no distinction for people to be able to say "Oh, this part is a game, this part is a sport." without really getting into the finer details, we're screwed.
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Like cg, it really does not matter.
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I don't know I get what doom is saying I guess if I averaged 250 on THS and it was just a matter of who got lucky and tripped a 7 or 9 pin out each game to see who won I might feel the same way. I don't feel that way at my house the bowling alley where I bowl most of the time was built in 1905 it's still wood lanes. I bowl three leagues and I'm pretty sure the highest average is in the 220 range not mine I'm about 180. I took about 20 years off and came back and I'm working my but off to get back up to the highest but to listen to everybody say is a game and if your not averaging 230 you suck kind of gets on my nerves not everywhere is like that. We have people getting 700 series every now and then I think I saw 2 three hundreds last year.
The other side of this if you take a high school player and put them against pros there going to get destroyed pretty much doesn't matter the sport. So are high school sports only a game? The difference between a sport and a game is the effort level not the degree of difficulty or the skill of a group of participants.
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This is my opinion..
Bowling is just a legal form of gambling...
Would anybody bowl if money wasnt involved.... Lets be truthful...
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This is my opinion..
Bowling is just a legal form of gambling...
Would anybody bowl if money wasnt involved.... Lets be truthful...
I would bowl is money wasn't involved. I enjoy bowling. I bowl in something here in Nor Cal called Match Club. Believe me, there is no money in it. It's more of a social thing than anything else.
I play golf for the same reason.
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One place in which bowling is a sport is the USBC Open tournament. Sure, there are more 300s, 700s and 800s bowled in the USBC in recent decades, but most of those "numbers" are posted by true shotmakers.
Even though many high-average players come to the USBC Open with modern-day arsenals, only a few of them have significant success. And year after year, THE ENTIRE TOURNAMENT FIELD averages only about 170.
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This is my opinion..
Bowling is just a legal form of gambling...
Would anybody bowl if money wasnt involved.... Lets be truthful...
Nah! Bowlers are as greedy as everyone else.
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I guess softball is not a sport since I hit .700 my last season.....
Cav
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Definition of sport is physical and skill used to compete against each other and I believe bowling has both requirement.
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This whole "sport vs game" debate is silly.
American football is obviously a SPORT, yet when we talk about it with our friends, we ask "Did you see the game"? So is it a sport, or a game?
Bowling, as a whole, is a sport. Each individual contest is a game of bowling. It doesn't matter what condition you are on, because your competition is on the same condition.
Ask any professional and they will tell you, bowling is a sport, regardless of the condition because, no matter what is out there, you still have to be better at it than the other guy.
It isn't about the condition, or about the score. It is about winning, no matter whether you shoot 150 or 250. And, when the ultimate goal is outperforming the competition no matter what, it is a sport.
As said earlier, church league softball may not be the same as MLB, but it is STILL a sport, and so is church league bowling.
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Bowling is a sport.. You keep score, you take on an opponent(s), you exert physical activity, etc etc...
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To me the issue is with the ball. Its the whole thing of "changing equipment". Uh oh! the pattern is changing. Just pick up ball B and start throwing again.
I know it is more complicated then my above statement. I am not trying to take away from those who have the abillity to create a great arsenal. A bowler still has to execute and make correct adjustments (ball, approach, etc...). It seems other sports are less complicated with the equipment.
As far as defense in this game. You can destroy your opponents line. Done many times.
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"Bowling is not a sport, because you have to rent the shoes"
George Carlin (RIP)
So as long as you have your own shoes, it's a sport I guess. :)
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The real problem with bowling is that it has always been a game (sport, who cares ) where the cream does not necessarily come to the top in the short run. Prior to the PBA, big money matches were typically 50 game home and home affairs. When the PBA first started we had 18 games of qualifying and a full 24 man round robin match play finals. Majors were 32 games of qualifying and 24 round robin matches. The step ladder finals that was added for tv was hated, and not well accepted at first. Since then every change in the game has been to shorter formats. Anybody can get beat in a 3 game match. I have beaten a couple of hall of famers in 3 game matches. Doesn't mean I am under any illusion that I could play with them over any extended number of games or lane patterns.
The trend to shorter formats has not been conducive to determining the best bowler on any gives day, and ultimately detracts from demonstrating the amount of skill that truly great bowlers have.
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You guys got "Sport" on a pedestal...it doesn't have to be athletic (ESPN has spelling bees). It's just another word for 'competition', even if it's against yourself.
Some 'sports' are simply more difficult than others.
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Since I bowl in very recreational leagues (for now) with very small prize funds, I can safely say that I would bowl for no prize money.
I think it is whatever you want it to be. If you want it to be a sport, it's a sport. If not, it isn't. The thing I think we really screw up is not allowing people to enjoy it for what it is to them and trying too hard to turn it into what we think it should be.
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i think that bowling gets a bad rap because it is formatted for the weakest players. Everybody, even here on this site talks about the easy conditions leading to big and maybe overinflated scoring. But the idea of the THS and the league conditions, the way balls are made ect, is so that the low guy can acheive some sort of success. this is the only "sport" that tries to cater to the low guy. the minor leagues of baseball do not have shorter fences, football does not have shorter fields, basketball 9 ft rims.now this is simplistic but you get the idea
this won't be popular, so go ahead and rip me for what i'm gonna say, but i think that lane conditions make this not a sport. I bowl on (and someone mentioned wood lanes) overlays, and i average about 200 each year. i have never bowled 800 and no 300 (my games have not been bowled at my center) and i cannot stand in the same spot and throw the ball all night long. i am also not the best bowler in my house and yet i go the state tourny and take 4th in scratch, 14th or so in doubles (my partner only shot 522) 13 or so in all events, and handicap is was even higher. did i have a good day sure, but on the second day i averaged 244 for 6 games (first game 188 ) and never move a board. we even had to switch lanes, as is customary, and played the exact line again. at my home alley, i can't play a game and a half on the same line.
i think in our attempts to make the game easy for the average guy, we have done damage to what would make our game a sport. any hack can lay the ball down in the same spot for three or more games, but to be a sport there has to be a challenge. NOW, i do not, and have not really bowled on sport shots so i do make that concession. they are just not available, so that could change my opinion
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Yeah, it won't die because thin-skinned people are more concerned about what other people think of the thing they are doing then the people actually doing it. Do I care if somebody calls it a game and another calls it a sport? No. You shouldn't either.
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Coco,
Your first point isn't really relevant. Most sports do this, that can. How many new golf balls come out every year that say they will fly straighter and farther? Are they designed for Tiger and Phil? How many new drivers come out every year that say the same thing? Are they designed for the already hitting the ball 300 yards? No, they are designed for the lowest caliber golfers to try and help them enjoy the sport more. This is true even in sports like football....new gloves that help you catch/throw the ball better, and baseball...new gloves and new bats, etc.. This is universal, not just with bowling.
On your second point, I think you are severly underestimating the skill it takes to be a good bowler. Sorry, not "any hack" can lay the ball down in the same spot for 3 games. The reason there are such high scores on THS is because of the fact that you don't have to do that to score well. Look at the highest USBC Sport average for any of the last 4-5 years, it's in the 220 range. While people routinely average 240-250+ on THS. If any hack can lay the ball down the same spot for 3 games, don't you think the Sport averages would be closer to THS? Bowlers practice for years to get good enough to consistently hit the same mark. Any little variation in your armswing can make it difficult if not impossible to do so. Then add the fact that you need to release the ball the same every shot and you add another element into the mix. You said you might get flamed well you are getting your wish. Saying any house hack can hit the same spot for 3 games is wrong, and ignorant.
i think that bowling gets a bad rap because it is formatted for the weakest players. Everybody, even here on this site talks about the easy conditions leading to big and maybe overinflated scoring. But the idea of the THS and the league conditions, the way balls are made ect, is so that the low guy can acheive some sort of success. this is the only "sport" that tries to cater to the low guy. the minor leagues of baseball do not have shorter fences, football does not have shorter fields, basketball 9 ft rims.now this is simplistic but you get the idea
this won't be popular, so go ahead and rip me for what i'm gonna say, but i think that lane conditions make this not a sport. I bowl on (and someone mentioned wood lanes) overlays, and i average about 200 each year. i have never bowled 800 and no 300 (my games have not been bowled at my center) and i cannot stand in the same spot and throw the ball all night long. i am also not the best bowler in my house and yet i go the state tourny and take 4th in scratch, 14th or so in doubles (my partner only shot 522) 13 or so in all events, and handicap is was even higher. did i have a good day sure, but on the second day i averaged 244 for 6 games (first game 188 ) and never move a board. we even had to switch lanes, as is customary, and played the exact line again. at my home alley, i can't play a game and a half on the same line.
i think in our attempts to make the game easy for the average guy, we have done damage to what would make our game a sport. any hack can lay the ball down in the same spot for three or more games, but to be a sport there has to be a challenge. NOW, i do not, and have not really bowled on sport shots so i do make that concession. they are just not available, so that could change my opinion
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LGD,
You are wrong, we do need to care what others think. And those others are sponsors/advertisers. We need people like that to think of bowling as a sport. We need them to think that they can drive customers into their businesses or get them to use their products in order invest money into our sport. And this goes from the PBA, down to the USBC, all the way down to the local alleys. Whether it's a tournament at your local house, sponsoring a league for a Winter Season, helping to bring the USBC Open to your local area, or advertising on a PBA telecast, we have a better chance to get this if more people consider bowling a sport. We (and this is a collective we as in the entire bowling community in these next lines) need to find a way to convince these people that there is a return for their investment. Any business that does do these things, we need to go there, spend money there, and let them know you saw their ad in the bowling center or on the bowling telecast. We need to let them know that their bowling ad dollars are bringing in business. If we do that, we might see businesses stick with supporting bowling longer, and we might be able to bring in new businesses. Something bowling desperately needs.
Yeah, it won't die because thin-skinned people are more concerned about what other people think of the thing they are doing then the people actually doing it. Do I care if somebody calls it a game and another calls it a sport? No. You shouldn't either.
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Anything i can do while drunk is not a sport.
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You can do anything drunk, but you can't do it well. This is the stupidist thing I have ever heard....and that is saying something.
Hockey isn't a sport then either....I have seen many a drunk playing hockey in my days in Canada.
Anything i can do while drunk is not a sport.
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Anything i can do while drunk is not a sport.
Then you obviously aren't a good drunk. If you don't have anything constructive or relevant to say, please don't say it at all.
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Yea i only push 220 average in multiple leagues in multiple houses. Bowling is a game, get over it.
Currently 234 in the summer and leading a scratch league also.
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Figjam much....are these numbers supposed to mean something. Bowling is a sport and you are just too dumb to realize it....maybe you could try posting here drunk and see if you appear smarter.
Yea i only push 220 average in multiple leagues in multiple houses. Bowling is a game, get over it.
Currently 234 in the summer and leading a scratch league also.
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Competative eating is more of a sport than bowling is.
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They get paid more anyways than bowlers
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Not quite drunk enough yet, you are still talking out your @$$.
Competative eating is more of a sport than bowling is.