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Author Topic: Sandbagging  (Read 7916 times)

machine189

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Sandbagging
« on: August 11, 2009, 03:42:49 AM »
What are you thoughts on it? Are you for it or do you hate it?
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Sean John 369

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Re: Sandbagging
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2009, 01:51:23 PM »
Quote
no suchthing as sandbaging

IS call average management. Think of it as part of the game. Like the abilty to convert all splits
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HAHAHAHA.."AVERAGE MANAGEMENT"...I use this term when Im bowling bad.  It's a way of Coping with a substandard performance....
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Paul Murchison
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Sean John 369

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Re: Sandbagging
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2009, 01:54:59 PM »
quote:
There is such thing as sandbagging, and its against the USBC rules.

Rule 17a. #2 and #3

An individual can be charged with attempting to gain an unfair advantage in league or tournament play for the following reasons:

2.  Misrepresenting an average to gain a greater handicap, or qualify for a lower classification in an event.

3.  Establishing an average below the player’s ability to gain an unfair advantage in handicap or classified competition.

Penalty:  Loss of games, prize winnings, league removal (see Rules 115a or 115c), and subject to suspension from or denial of USBC membership.

Think about that the next time you "manage your average" nostick.


I think it's difficult to enforce this rule as many people tournament hop.  Go places where people don't know them and enter with a low average and tear up the shot...i know a few in my area.
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It aint how, it's how many.  Shut up and bowl!!

Paul Murchison
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trash heap

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Re: Sandbagging
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2009, 02:09:09 PM »
quote:
3. Establishing an average below the player’s ability to gain an unfair advantage in handicap or classified competition.


This is one that I think most sandbaggers fall under. It is so hard to prove. If the "scum" only bowls in a few tournaments a year it can be tough to get this noticed by the USBC.
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Talkin' Trash!

Atochabsh

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Re: Sandbagging
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2009, 02:17:26 PM »
USBC cannot do anything until a local association hearing has been completed.

Local Association cannot do anything until they have written complaints with eveidence of sandbagging.  Such as tournament averages way over their book averages. Subbing and bowling in many leagues and quitting just shy of 21 games.  Summer averages that are much higher then their book average.  

Then a formal hearing will occure.  Certified letters will go out for attendees on both sides and association officers and hearing committee members will be called in.  Once a hearing has happened by the local association  then the hearing report goes to USBC.  Ramifications are then decided by USBC based on the committee findings.  

The problem is that a lot of people like to gripe about sandbagging but no one wants to put their issues in writing and provide any proof.  

Erin
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Spider Ball Bowler

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Re: Sandbagging
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2009, 02:29:29 PM »
Classic example they had a $7k first place handicap tournament around this area which was doubles.  I looked at the final results and the winners were a 143 and 138 average bowling team.  The 143 average shot 190, 220, 250.  The 138 shot 180 160 210.  Just so happens for $7k they have career days??

I mean yes it's very possible, and it does happen, but.....
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kidlost2000

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Re: Sandbagging
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2009, 03:45:50 PM »
It is what it is. Most people are dishonest to begin with.

If you bowl more then one league almost all tournaments go off your high average for the past two seasons.

If you sandbag you are a.....


should be the starter for the next topic.
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…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

BrianCRX90

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Re: Sandbagging
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2009, 04:47:31 PM »
I think it's lame to even worry about. It's thier loss.
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Gazoo

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Re: Sandbagging
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2009, 05:00:58 PM »
+1 You can't force people to have intergity. They either do or they don't.
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On Further Review

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Re: Sandbagging
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2009, 05:38:05 PM »
quote:
+1 You can't force people to have intergity. They either do or they don't.

True, and you can't even force bowling or tournament officials to have integrity either, so how can you really expect every bowler to be honest?
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tenpin477

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Re: Sandbagging
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2009, 07:29:46 PM »
quote:
Classic example they had a $7k first place handicap tournament around this area which was doubles.  I looked at the final results and the winners were a 143 and 138 average bowling team.  The 143 average shot 190, 220, 250.  The 138 shot 180 160 210.  Just so happens for $7k they have career days??

I mean yes it's very possible, and it does happen, but.....
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Ahhh Disco Biscuits!



When you come in averagine 138 and 143, yes that is a career day lol. Sandbagging normally occurs where a 220 would average 205 or something like that. A 220 is not going to average 143 in league. A 160 who is trying to dump is going to average 143 in league, and for a 160 to shoot 190, 220, 250 that is still impressive.


I don't like bagging as much as the next guy, but lets be realistic, nobody bags that low lol. Its not really possible to be honest
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trash heap

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Re: Sandbagging
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2009, 07:44:20 PM »
quote:
I don't like bagging as much as the next guy, but lets be realistic, nobody bags that low


Oh yes there are people who do this. These people take their lumps in league and laugh their way to the bank after the tournament.
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Atochabsh

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Re: Sandbagging
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2009, 08:03:11 PM »
Yes it could be a career night.  But keep the results because in 10 months or so you might be glad you did when they cash in 6 more tournaments.  

It is a big problemsandbagging.  Its not really something bowlers should or shouldn't hate, 100% should hate it.  We have pockets of people that seriously supplement their income doing this.  And its at all average levels and both male and female.  

Erin
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txbowler

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Re: Sandbagging
« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2009, 12:12:36 PM »
Comment and Question

All for stopping sandbagging...but here's the problem.  You cannot catch innocent bowlers in the sandbagging web.

There's a house that is out in the boonies about an 1.5 hrs from Dallas.  It has wood lanes (not resurfaced in years) and a machine that is at least 10-15 old.  I promise you, their shot is not the great wall of china that a lot of THS are.  

Now the next closest house is at least 30 miles away.  We bowl there as part of our traveling league and our entire league struggles there.  

Now, how about a house bowler there.  They try their best and bowl their best every week and average 185 because that's the best that house allows you to bowl.  Now they go enter a HDCP tournament, and average 210+.

They are not sandbaggers....

And you cannot punish those bowlers who are league members of this house.  But I bet most of you would call them sandbaggers.  And if you don't, how do you tell the difference?
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Atochabsh

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Re: Sandbagging
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2009, 12:20:50 PM »
quote:
And you cannot punish those bowlers who are league members of this house. But I bet most of you would call them sandbaggers. And if you don't, how do you tell the difference?


This is why you need a history, not just one or two incidences.  But if people delibertly bowl in that house, for the purpose of having a lower average so that they can attend handicap tournaments, then the tournament committee can rerate them.  But again, it would take more then one or two incidences of cashing.  This is why official rerating takes a hearing, and then review by USBC.  

Erin
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raiderh20boy

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Re: Sandbagging
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2009, 12:34:34 PM »
Sadist obvious bag I've seen is PARENTS HAVING THEIR KIDS miss a shot on purpose!! Keep that avg down and then really pick up the scholarship $$$ in tournaments. The other is parents bagging to bowl doubles with their kids and rack up the $$$ while STEALING $$$ from the others than are legit!!
SAD to see and hear kids rooting for some to get beat because they know whats happening.
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