Author Topic: Sandbagging (Read 3186 times)

buckykatt · « **on:** September 28, 2009, 07:35:36 AM »

In my last league we have had someone "accused" of sandbagging. The bowler started the league with a 123 avg and is currently at 135. The reason that was given to us is that the bowlers form has changed and average the over the last 6 weeks has been dropping (greater than 7 pins). My question is can someone who averages 135 really be sandbagging by form ?? Has anyone dealt with a similar situation ?? Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

Aloarjr810 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 28, 2009, 03:57:03 PM »

quote:
In my last league we have had someone "accused" of sandbagging. The bowler started the league with a 123 avg and is currently at 135. The reason that was given to us is that the bowlers form has changed and average the over the last 6 weeks has been dropping (greater than 7 pins). My question is can someone who averages 135 really be sandbagging by form ?? Has anyone dealt with a similar situation ?? Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

So he started at 123 and is a 135 now. but over the last 6 weeks hes gone down about 7 pins, so was he a 142 and now down to the 135? or is he down to a 128 now? where was the sandbagging?

Edited on 9/28/2009 4:10 PM

Nails · « **Reply #2 on:** September 28, 2009, 04:03:36 PM »

While anything is possible, I wouldn't think to blame a 7 pin drop from a 130 average bowler on sand bagging. When you're at that average, you have many flaws in your delivery that lead to massive inconsistencies. The lower the average the bigger the swings are from week to week. Your bowler might shoot close to 500 one week, and not break 300 another.
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Telling it like it is.

buckykatt · « **Reply #3 on:** September 28, 2009, 06:32:17 PM »

Let me clarify one point. I am not accusing anyone of sandbagging. It was brought to our league officals and they approached the bowler. I have seen this bowler before and just dont see it. I agree with a lower average you get bigger swings from week to week. I have had a few people come up to me with their opinions and they agree that this bowler is not sandbagging.

Thanks for your views. I do appreciate them.

On Further Review · « **Reply #4 on:** September 28, 2009, 07:31:11 PM »

It shouldn't be surprising when a bowler with an average in the 120s or 130s rolls some extremely low series, and it's not too likely that a bowler with such an average will attempt to take advantage of a large handicap in any tournaments. Now if suddenly the bowler starts rolling 500s with new equipment and obviously different delivery, then might be a cause for logical complaints.

Strider · « **Reply #5 on:** September 28, 2009, 07:39:28 PM »

quote:
Even if the person is intentionally 'sand-bagging' what USBC/League rule is being broken?

There is no rule written on this, thus no punishment can be enforced. Confronting the bowler about his poor shooting is simply 'harassment' in my book.
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There is more to bowling than just knocking down pins.

Purposely bowling below your average in order to gain an advantage (more handicap) in a handicap league or tournament is illegal. It's more noticeable in tournaments, but you can see some people just seem to never bowl well the first half of a league and suddenly improve 10-20 pins for the remainder every single year.

On the surface, it doesn't seem like the bowler is sand bagging, just going through the normal ups and downs that a lower average bowler does. It's also very early in the season, so a big or terrible night will have a bigger influence on the average than later on.
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sigmaphi9 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 28, 2009, 08:00:59 PM »

There is no clear cut rule on this.. I sandbag every year. It's the only way you can win in some leagues.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Then you're a cheater...proud of yourself?

astrodanco · « **Reply #7 on:** September 28, 2009, 08:15:06 PM »

Sandbagging is an advanced skill that no 135 average bowler can successfully pull off. Accusing a 135 average bowler of sandbagging is absurd.

9andaWiggle · « **Reply #8 on:** September 29, 2009, 08:07:07 AM »

quote:
The reason that was given to us is that the bowlers form has changed and average the over the last 6 weeks has been dropping (greater than 7 pins).

Let me see if I understand this correctly. A 130 average bowler changes his form (I would assume he's trying something new based on advice given by someone else to improve his game), has a few bad nights, and now is a major concern for the league? WOW. What can I say, the people in your league must be a lot of fun to bowl with - *note the heavy sarcasm in that statement. Jesus Christ, accusing a bad bowler of sandbagging? I bet the accusers are all of those 175 average douchebags that miraculously get hot and pull 650 sets out thier a**es when the money is on the line, right?

Un-freaking-real.

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9~

Internet Tough Guy

Cyberspace Sheep Lover

triggerman · « **Reply #9 on:** September 29, 2009, 08:32:06 AM »

quote:
There is no clear cut rule on this.. I sandbag every year. It''s the only way you can win in some leagues.

rule 17a of the current rule book addresses this exact thing

penality if found to be breaking this rule

loss of games, prize winnings league removeal and subject to suspension from or denial of USBC membership

I personally wish ths rule was more enfourced

the way to win leagues is to get better and put your best effort forward every night
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Triggerman

F.O.S Loud, F.O.S. Proud

Lane #1 Baby

Edited on 9/29/2009 8:33 AM

trash heap · « **Reply #10 on:** September 29, 2009, 10:34:11 AM »

This is one bowling rule tough to prove. In my example (Another thread), we heard the guy stating he was giving up in the last half of the third game to get a higher handicap and he was hoping that his team would win the first game due to his actions (Purposely missing spares, and not attempting to strike). Clearly a rule violation.

Your example does not hold merit. Changing form is not a rule violation. This guy is not going out there and doing his worst. Just want to make sure: He started the league with a 123 average (Last years average). First night throws a 405, 406, or 407 series (135 average). Over the past 6 weeks it starts dropping 7 pins. He is now at a 128 average. 6 weeks (18 games) not even enough by USBC to establish an average. What a bunch of Cry Babies!!!

quote:
There is no rule written on this, thus no punishment can be enforced. Confronting the bowler about his poor shooting is simply 'harassment' in my book.

Your league Officers need read the rules. You do NOT approach someone on this matter when the proof is only a drop in 7 pins in average. If I was that guy I would be writing up a complaint on the League officers to put it back in their face.

The league officers must talk with a lot people about sandbagging or is this really about a team with low handicap complaining because they are giving up too many pins (I wonder if that is the problem).

buckykatt · « **Reply #11 on:** September 29, 2009, 11:53:00 AM »

Thanks to all this confirmed my feelings as well. I appreciate all of your input.

Blakeboy300 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 30, 2009, 11:47:11 AM »

That's why I try to only bowl scratch leagues and tourneys. It elimates this problem all together.
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Current Arsenal
Ebonite Playmaker (medium/light)
Brunswick Avalanche Solid (light oil)
Hammer Acid Raw Hammer (medium/heavy)
Hammer Burn Raw Hammer (very versatile)

Coolerman · « **Reply #13 on:** September 30, 2009, 12:13:12 PM »

SORRY GUYS! But as all my dumb a^s friends now call it,"Average Management".Call it what you want,but
it still looks bad no matter what nice name you try to attach to it.

rexb300 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 03, 2009, 07:05:35 AM »

I am going to ring in on this subject.
a few years back had a new bowler come in the
league using a house ball & shoes
he got a ball for Christmas was having trouble
was bowling next to him he ask me for some help
I gave a few pointers ect and we practice on
Saturday afternoons

but his average went down before it came up
so I guess we was a bagger is that what this
page is about

how many bowlers don't go practice but use league
as practice or try something
this week I changed balls threw 2 splits in a row

this week the highest average bowler in league and
on my team had a bad night dropped his average
5 pins this week we won 1 game dropped out of 1st
so I guess he was bagging and he shot 570

I know I am long but a 7 pin drop not bagging
it would be 17 or 20 before I would worry
and we had bowlers come back from surgery ect
and you know can't bowl or back hurting ect

the crybaby that even said the guy was bagging
should get all the facts and every bowler
has had a slump for a couple of weeks or longer
just my thoughts if anybody cares.

RB

Author Topic: Sandbagging (Read 3186 times)

buckykatt

Sandbagging

Aloarjr810

Re: Sandbagging

Nails

Re: Sandbagging

buckykatt

Re: Sandbagging

On Further Review

Re: Sandbagging

Strider

Re: Sandbagging

sigmaphi9

Re: Sandbagging

astrodanco

Re: Sandbagging

9andaWiggle

Re: Sandbagging

triggerman

Re: Sandbagging

trash heap

Re: Sandbagging

buckykatt

Re: Sandbagging

Blakeboy300

Re: Sandbagging

Coolerman

Re: Sandbagging

rexb300

Re: Sandbagging