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Author Topic: Sandbagging, tough vs easy house  (Read 2522 times)

bowl400

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Sandbagging, tough vs easy house
« on: June 26, 2008, 09:49:07 AM »
wondering how many bowlers purposely bowl in a tough house in order to gain an advantage when they bowl handicapped tournaments.  i noticed the leader at a local tournament who averaged over 200 at an easier house 3 years ago, but posted averages the last two years around 180 at a well known tough center.  many of these bowlers also do well in the state tournament every year using those low averages.  sounds like the way to go!
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NJStroker

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Re: Sandbagging, tough vs easy house
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2008, 05:50:36 PM »
nah not me, i like having a high average because i know i can pull 180's on sport shots in tournaments.
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tenpin477

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Re: Sandbagging, tough vs easy house
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2008, 07:21:02 PM »
Only bowling at a tough house and averaging lower is perfectly acceptable.

It just shows the lack of uniformity in bowling, and that something should be done.
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Atochabsh

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Re: Sandbagging, tough vs easy house
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2008, 08:32:03 PM »
Too many, but we rerated one this season, so its not the be all end all of how to sandbag.  Took years of history on this bowler in multiple associations, leagues and tournaments.  So its not easy or quickly done.  Keep in mind that these are bowlers that hit 2 to 4 tournaments a month, its like a second job and income for them.  

Purposely keeping your average low for the purpose of entering handicapped tournaments is not right.  No matter if you bowl in a tough house or not.  

Erin
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tenpin477

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Re: Sandbagging, tough vs easy house
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2008, 09:41:47 PM »
Im sure everybody has access to a tougher house. It may require a little driving, but everybody can bowl in a tough house. People don't want a tough house, they want to stay home and bowl on their cake china wall shot. Then they enter a handicap tournament, and complain that people are averaging lower then them by bowling in a tough house.


Solution..........................Bowl Scratch
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Strider

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Re: Sandbagging, tough vs easy house
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2008, 09:43:55 PM »
Bowling at a harder house because you want a challenge or because you're tired of the "stand left, throw right" mentality no problem.  Going to a hard house to gain an advantage in handicap tournaments IS sandbagging and although nothing will be done 99% of the time, is still illegal.  It all depends on intent.
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jd1319

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Re: Sandbagging, tough vs easy house
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2008, 11:45:19 PM »
There is nothing illegal about bowling in a tougher house and gaining an advantage for tourny's.  As long as your trying your hardest in the tougher house, it's not sandbagging.  Some people don't have access to the easier shot, and those that focus their game on the tougher shots deserve to be rewarded.  Somebody has to give the Sandbaggers competition.
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Strider

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Re: Sandbagging, tough vs easy house
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2008, 05:53:36 AM »
quote:
There is nothing illegal about bowling in a tougher house and gaining an advantage for tourny's.  As long as your trying your hardest in the tougher house, it's not sandbagging.  Some people don't have access to the easier shot, and those that focus their game on the tougher shots deserve to be rewarded.  Somebody has to give the Sandbaggers competition.


Sorry, if your intent for switching houses (which is how the original post is phrased) is to gain an advantage in handicap tournaments, it is the definition of sand bagging.  Not trying or throwing off is the more often used and more blatant form, but anything you do purposely to gain an advantage is bagging.  Like I said, if you're bowling the harder house for any other reason it's not a problem.  If you only move to get sticks in a handicap tournament, it's bagging.
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Strider

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Re: Sandbagging, tough vs easy house
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2008, 05:56:49 AM »
quote:
slap the dime

year to year I bowl in 3 or 4 leagues and normally come out winning a total of about $1800-$2000. Alright at best.... this past year I tried something different. I sandbagged for half of the season and went nuts increasing my averages in my 3 leagues a total of 47 pins from the half way point on. I won $4000 instead. I still have decently high entering averages for next year but hey you have to reestablish in all leagues, dont you?!?! There is no prestige in averaging high unless you are head and shoulders above the rest and by me you need to be 245 to do that so sandbagging it is!!!!


Care to share your name or national ID number so we can pass that information to the USBC?  Sand bagging is normally hard to prove, but if you're going to be so forth coming with information and proud of your "efforts", you need to go.
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Edited on 6/27/2008 5:57 AM
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Jayemm

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Re: Sandbagging, tough vs easy house
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2008, 06:34:48 AM »
im pretty sure im not the only one that thinks that bowling should go back to being all scratch.  then we'd truly see who the "top notch" bowlers are at tournaments, not the baggers
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rexb300

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Re: Sandbagging, tough vs easy house
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2008, 06:45:16 AM »
we don't have a problem here with it
but we have a small tournament base after 4 tournaments bowlers
uses tournament average and at end of season starts with tourney
average next year unless league average higher stops all that
and if league average gets 10 pin higher that counts to.
no handicap bowlers gets a advantage more scratch bowlers
are winning, but any bowler can get hot for 6 games.
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Martin710

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Re: Sandbagging, tough vs easy house
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2008, 06:54:26 AM »
quote:
wondering how many bowlers purposely bowl in a tough house in order to gain an advantage when they bowl handicapped tournaments.  i noticed the leader at a local tournament who averaged over 200 at an easier house 3 years ago, but posted averages the last two years around 180 at a well known tough center.  many of these bowlers also do well in the state tournament every year using those low averages.  sounds like the way to go!
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I know at least 8 bowlers who do that around here. They play at a house where conditions are kept tough for that purpose. Those guys where bowling over 200 avg at other houses but they post averages in the 180's now in handicapped tournaments. This brings me to suggest that tournaments should be played on sports shots.
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someguyintucson

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Re: Sandbagging, tough vs easy house
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2008, 07:02:17 AM »
I worked the bracket table at our state tournament for the past 6 weekends and I saw a lot of questionable stuff during that time. We had a few bowlers come in from Blythe, California and most of them were in the 160-170 average range and ended up shooting low 600's in their doubles and singles events. While I was collecting scores for the brackets, I had the opportunity to talk to them and found out that they bowl in a total dump back home and were so pleased to be able to bowl in a house that had new lanes, approaches and that the lanes actually had oil on them. I don't see purposely bowling in a tough house as sandbagging as long as you are trying to do your best.
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n00dlejester

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Re: Sandbagging, tough vs easy house
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2008, 07:42:35 AM »
I like how that guy just completely admitted to being a sandbagger.

As for bowling in a tough house for tournament sake, that seems alright.  I bowl at a somewhat tougher house than the other houses around my area to make myself a more consistent bowler, and it's been showing in the tournaments I've done.  Not shooting lights out, but I've cashed more often than I ever have this season, so that makes me happy
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Sandbagging, tough vs easy house
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2008, 07:58:30 AM »
The problem with bowling at a tougher house means I am no longer qualified to discuss drillings or balls on this site.

The fact that once in weekend tournies for money I often average over 200 just because I all of sudden remember to practice my spares which I can't make without lots of practice(klutz)!

Such is today's downfall on ballreviews!

REgards,

Luckylefty
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