Post by: bowl400 on June 26, 2008, 09:49:07 AM
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Tag Team Coaching success story
Post by: NJStroker on June 26, 2008, 05:50:36 PM
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Im so glad people are brainwashed to thinking that if they buy a new ball they will carry everything. And its even funnier when im carrying with my 15 year old ball and they're going flat ten.
Post by: tenpin477 on June 26, 2008, 07:21:02 PM
It just shows the lack of uniformity in bowling, and that something should be done.
Post by: Atochabsh on June 26, 2008, 08:32:03 PM
Purposely keeping your average low for the purpose of entering handicapped tournaments is not right. No matter if you bowl in a tough house or not.
Erin
Post by: tenpin477 on June 26, 2008, 09:41:47 PM
Solution..........................Bowl Scratch
Post by: Strider on June 26, 2008, 09:43:55 PM
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Penn State Proud
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Post by: jd1319 on June 26, 2008, 11:45:19 PM
Post by: Strider on June 27, 2008, 05:53:36 AM
quote:
There is nothing illegal about bowling in a tougher house and gaining an advantage for tourny's. As long as your trying your hardest in the tougher house, it's not sandbagging. Some people don't have access to the easier shot, and those that focus their game on the tougher shots deserve to be rewarded. Somebody has to give the Sandbaggers competition.
Sorry, if your intent for switching houses (which is how the original post is phrased) is to gain an advantage in handicap tournaments, it is the definition of sand bagging. Not trying or throwing off is the more often used and more blatant form, but anything you do purposely to gain an advantage is bagging. Like I said, if you're bowling the harder house for any other reason it's not a problem. If you only move to get sticks in a handicap tournament, it's bagging.
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Penn State Proud
Special thanks to Lane#1 for donations to two consecutive Ballreviews Get Togethers.
Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive (http://"http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm")
Post by: Strider on June 27, 2008, 05:56:49 AM
quote:
slap the dime
year to year I bowl in 3 or 4 leagues and normally come out winning a total of about $1800-$2000. Alright at best.... this past year I tried something different. I sandbagged for half of the season and went nuts increasing my averages in my 3 leagues a total of 47 pins from the half way point on. I won $4000 instead. I still have decently high entering averages for next year but hey you have to reestablish in all leagues, dont you?!?! There is no prestige in averaging high unless you are head and shoulders above the rest and by me you need to be 245 to do that so sandbagging it is!!!!
Care to share your name or national ID number so we can pass that information to the USBC? Sand bagging is normally hard to prove, but if you're going to be so forth coming with information and proud of your "efforts", you need to go.
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Penn State Proud
Special thanks to Lane#1 for donations to two consecutive Ballreviews Get Togethers.
Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive (http://"http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm")
Edited on 6/27/2008 5:57 AM
Post by: Jayemm on June 27, 2008, 06:34:48 AM
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John
Better Bowling Pro Shops Inc Staff
Post by: rexb300 on June 27, 2008, 06:45:16 AM
but we have a small tournament base after 4 tournaments bowlers
uses tournament average and at end of season starts with tourney
average next year unless league average higher stops all that
and if league average gets 10 pin higher that counts to.
no handicap bowlers gets a advantage more scratch bowlers
are winning, but any bowler can get hot for 6 games.
Post by: Martin710 on June 27, 2008, 06:54:26 AM
quote:
wondering how many bowlers purposely bowl in a tough house in order to gain an advantage when they bowl handicapped tournaments. i noticed the leader at a local tournament who averaged over 200 at an easier house 3 years ago, but posted averages the last two years around 180 at a well known tough center. many of these bowlers also do well in the state tournament every year using those low averages. sounds like the way to go!
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I know at least 8 bowlers who do that around here. They play at a house where conditions are kept tough for that purpose. Those guys where bowling over 200 avg at other houses but they post averages in the 180's now in handicapped tournaments. This brings me to suggest that tournaments should be played on sports shots.
Post by: someguyintucson on June 27, 2008, 07:02:17 AM
Post by: n00dlejester on June 27, 2008, 07:42:35 AM
As for bowling in a tough house for tournament sake, that seems alright. I bowl at a somewhat tougher house than the other houses around my area to make myself a more consistent bowler, and it's been showing in the tournaments I've done. Not shooting lights out, but I've cashed more often than I ever have this season, so that makes me happy
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Obviously, you aren't a golfer.
Check out this blog (http://"http://astronsolutionsworldofhr.blogspot.com/")
Post by: LuckyLefty on June 27, 2008, 07:58:30 AM
The fact that once in weekend tournies for money I often average over 200 just because I all of sudden remember to practice my spares which I can't make without lots of practice(klutz)!
Such is today's downfall on ballreviews!
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: trash heap on June 27, 2008, 10:29:18 AM
quote:
Sorry, if your intent for switching houses (which is how the original post is phrased) is to gain an advantage in handicap tournaments, it is the definition of sand bagging. Not trying or throwing off is the more often used and more blatant form, but anything you do purposely to gain an advantage is bagging. Like I said, if you're bowling the harder house for any other reason it's not a problem. If you only move to get sticks in a handicap tournament, it's bagging.
I have to agree that this is bagging, but by USBC rules it is not. If this person is bowling their best in the leagues they are in then they are NOT bagging. You can't force someone to be in a league with an easier shot.
The same applies to a bowler that uses only a plastic ball in a league and goes to tournaments with reactive. Is this bagging too? Even if the person admits it, there is nothing you can do.
Maybe have their average adjusted for tournaments but like someone stated earlier it has to be clearly obvious.
A guy with a 185 average goes to two or three tournaments a year and averages in those tournaments 210, 200, 230 is not going to get noticed. Why because it is possible for someone to shoot scores like that.
A guy with a 140 average and does the same thing...you might be able to get something done.
Post by: earlthepearle on June 27, 2008, 10:44:29 AM
I said that to say this....Some of those bowlers "only" bowl in that league to keep there averages down. Sandbagging in this league is an understatement. These bowlers who would avg. about 215 or 225 in one house, will avg. about 180 in the Travel League. Dont get me wrong, the Travel League can be tough, but not 180 tough.
When its time for a tournament, they come in with there 180 avg. and just rip the place apart. Is it fair?...Well, USBC says yes, but there needs to be some governing on this issue. Its getting out of hand in my opionion.
Earl
Edited on 6/27/2008 10:48 AM
Post by: tenpin477 on June 27, 2008, 11:14:47 AM
Post by: earlthepearle on June 27, 2008, 11:27:29 AM
I hear what you`re saying, Ive ask that question to center owners before. Their answer was basically, "I dont want to run off my paying customers". I cant say that I blame them, Its a catch-22 situation I believe.
Earl
Post by: KDawg77 on June 27, 2008, 11:31:34 AM
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Ken
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Post by: Nails on June 27, 2008, 11:36:52 AM
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Telling it like it is.
Post by: rvmark on June 27, 2008, 11:50:45 AM
If someone bowls in a tougher house because they are trying to make themselves a better bowler that does not make them a sandbagger IMO. Does this give them an advantage in tournaments maybe, but they still have to show up and bowl.
If a bowler moves to a tougher house and bowls their best but averages 20 pins less just to lower their averager for handicap tournaments, by USBC rules he is not a sandbagger. Do I feel that is fair? No, but there will always in any sport or game be those that purposely try to tip the scales in their favor.
Mark
Post by: Madiballz23 on June 27, 2008, 12:15:01 PM
You will never have uniformity among houses, but that might be a way to allow for the differences and create less uprising while keeping people in check.
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First one to leave 15 ten pins wins!
Post by: Krakken on June 27, 2008, 12:15:07 PM
Like Billy Chapel says, For Love of the Game.
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Speed Kills
When in doubt, move out
Post by: trash heap on June 27, 2008, 12:31:39 PM
quote:
What ever happened to just showing up and trying to score the highest you can every time? That is what I do. avg be damned. Whether is it a THS or a PBA league, or a local tourney. I try to throw the best ball I can every shot and score the highest I can everytime.
That is what is happenning in the scenario described by the person who started the topic. They are going to another house knowing their average will be lower thus giving them more handicap. They are trying their best however the shot is tougher so their average is lower. Some think they are sandbagging and it is wrong for them to do it.
Post by: trash heap on June 27, 2008, 01:00:56 PM
Bowler 1: THS Average - 190, Sport Average - 160
Bowler 2: THS Average - 220, Sport Average - 190
Bowler 1 bowls in THS and Sport League. Goes to handicap tournament (uses a shot tougher than THS) and must use their THS Avg.
Bowler 2 bowls in Sport League but THS league is non-sanctioned. Goes to same tournament and is using their 190 average.
In this scenario Bowler 2's average for tournament is closer and more correct. Bowler 1 has put himself at a disadvantage. In reality why would Bowler 1 want to enter tournament where he knows he is going up against people like Bowler 2. It's NOT right! The system does NOT work.
Average is NOT indication of someone's ability in bowling anymore. It's apples to oranges. A check needs to be put in place.