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Author Topic: Scores and the houses they are shot in.  (Read 1857 times)

mainzer

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Scores and the houses they are shot in.
« on: April 22, 2012, 01:41:58 PM »
We talk about scores increasing a lot, what we don't talk about or what I haven't heard talked about is the houses the scores are shot in.



 



We all have heard of houses where scores are few and far between, houses where you still have to work for good scores. We all have heard of houses where the scores are easy to attain stand left and through it anywhere to the right you please and all ten pins drop.



 



I bowl in one of these easy houses once a month and understand the allure of bowling their. We bowl a trios tourney once a month at a house like this, and I my average has to be around 240 or so. I bowled a league in the same city (Oshkosh WI) different house and averaged about 212 for the season the shot was tight, but playable for all styles, carry was tough no kickbacks and sideboards throwing pins all over the deck.



 



My point? Point is are the numbers that we talk about getting bigger like averages and high sets, are they getting blown out of proportion by the easy houses? How Many of these 240 and up averages are coming from the easy houses? How Many of the 850 and up sets are coming from these houses? Versus the numbers coming from houses with tougher conditions?



 



Not trying to rip anyone or the scores they have shot or the houses they bowl in I am just stating a opinion I have been forming in my brain during the last month or so from some of my personal experience   



MainzerPower

 

Edited by mainzer on 4/22/2012 at 11:46 AM
 
Edited by mainzer on 4/22/2012 at 11:52 AM
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Juggernaut

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Re: Scores and the houses they are shot in.
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2012, 02:59:42 PM »
How DARE you to intimate that bowling isn't exactly the same for everyone, everywhere!

 

Don't you know that bowling is a fair and equitable sport with tons of integrity?

 

How could you even THINK such thoughts and be able to sleep at night?

 

Aren't all houses the same? Doesn't USBC make sure of that?

 

Isn't bowling the same for everyone, everywhere?

 

I'm shocked at your attitude young man.

 

I think you should be ashamed.


 


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Sunshine n Lollipops

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Re: Scores and the houses they are shot in.
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2012, 03:38:02 PM »
Yay.  Two more posts on the subject of bowling scores from two of the biggest bittermen on any bowling site.  What fresh and exciting things will they post this time?


 Don't believe in the Uzi, it just went off in my hand.  I, I believe in love.  

mainzer

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Re: Scores and the houses they are shot in.
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2012, 05:26:18 PM »

 
Sunshine n Lollipops wrote on 4/22/2012 1:38 PM:Yay.  Two more posts on the subject of bowling scores from two of the biggest bittermen on any bowling site.  What fresh and exciting things will they post this time?


 Don't believe in the Uzi, it just went off in my hand.  I, I believe in love.  


People stating their thoughts and opinions is what the site is for. How i became bitter
Is beyond me first time i have been called bitter. Glad to know how you feel.


MainzerPower
"No one runs...from the conquerer "

MainzerPower

Smash49

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Re: Scores and the houses they are shot in.
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2012, 06:34:39 PM »
Here in the Dallas area we have 2 centers that are considered stupidly easy.  We also have 1 center that has been called a nitemare for years.  If you look at the honor roll in the paper weekly there is sometimes 250 to 300 pins difference in high series every week.  That's not just the men but women too.  Some of this has to do with the caliber of bowlers but many of the good bowlers at the 1 center left due to scoring issues.  A lot of things have to do with the center up keep.  I know a center in Oklahoma that when it certified took the years previous paperwork and copied it and sent it in.  They finally sent the correct paperwork and tapes to USBC after how many years of this practice.  The condition of the lane beds, upkeep equipment and the competence of the person maintaining them plays a great role in scoring.  Another factor is pin condition.  Sometimes we like to think that it is the bowler has all the control.  There are more factors involved.  If bowling lanes were like checker boards we might be able to average the same everywhere.
 
Smash49
 
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kidlost2000

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Re: Scores and the houses they are shot in.
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2012, 06:50:13 PM »
I finished my past season in an easy house and will be bowling there again this upcoming season. It was due to my work hours and limited availability of mens leagues for the nights I can bowl.
 
I know my average is going to be 10-12 pins higher when I bowl there but when you average 218-221 at the tougher house then 230+ is still the same no matter what. 0 pins handicap is 0 pins handicap. I don't shoot much in the way of honor scores so if I get one in the easy house it is still nice, but not as nice as shooting it somewhere else. What I've noticed with the easier house is you have to be able to carry. You can get to the pocket from anywhere, but there are many days when you just won't carry and spares is what will keep your inflated average up. Then you have the other days were you carry the world.
 
The other advantage I like of the easy house is I'm more consistent as a bowler with my form, and timing then at tougher houses. The reason being, I don't have to fight the lanes from week to week when the shot changes. Either game to game, or lane to lane. the tougher house I bowled in wouldn't oil consistent from one lane to the next. the shot would also change every month or so sometimes. It helps on seeing and playing different lines but can also make bowlers develop bad habits trying to over come or match up to the conditions.
 
I think bowling in both is what will help any bowler. Just bowling in one or the other can have its pros and cons but doing both will help balance your game. Plus you must practice.


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kidlost2000

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Re: Scores and the houses they are shot in.
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2012, 06:50:13 PM »
I finished my past season in an easy house and will be bowling there again this upcoming season. It was due to my work hours and limited availability of mens leagues for the nights I can bowl.
 
I know my average is going to be 10-12 pins higher when I bowl there but when you average 218-221 at the tougher house then 230+ is still the same no matter what. 0 pins handicap is 0 pins handicap. I don't shoot much in the way of honor scores so if I get one in the easy house it is still nice, but not as nice as shooting it somewhere else. What I've noticed with the easier house is you have to be able to carry. You can get to the pocket from anywhere, but there are many days when you just won't carry and spares is what will keep your inflated average up. Then you have the other days were you carry the world.
 
The other advantage I like of the easy house is I'm more consistent as a bowler with my form, and timing then at tougher houses. The reason being, I don't have to fight the lanes from week to week when the shot changes. Either game to game, or lane to lane. the tougher house I bowled in wouldn't oil consistent from one lane to the next. the shot would also change every month or so sometimes. It helps on seeing and playing different lines but can also make bowlers develop bad habits trying to over come or match up to the conditions.
 
I think bowling in both is what will help any bowler. Just bowling in one or the other can have its pros and cons but doing both will help balance your game. Plus you must practice.


"1 of 1." 
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

neverbackdown_x7x

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Re: Scores and the houses they are shot in.
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2012, 08:51:55 PM »
I've been bowling in two houses the last few years and though there was a 15 pin difference in my averages between the two leagues, I try not to think of anything as easy. I have one league that I ended up with 215 average mainly because I would have a very good start the first two games plus I worked really hard this year with my approach and throwing it straighter. They put a normal THS most of the time (backends are decent but not super clean) but every once in awhile they might put a tricky one out there.  That league was also my highest average ever in a league (up from 208 last year). My other league I finished with a 200 average because it's alittle later in the evening so I'm more tired, carry is harder and the other center put alittle harder shot out (sometimes the red, white, and blue patterns). We have guys that has 225-230 averages that only bowl in one house because they know that if they try to bowl in another league with different lane surface and pattern, they're not going to carry that high average. 
 
I don't think it's so much that a house is putting an easy shot, it's more about the skills of a bowler and whether they want to take the risk of bowling in a different house and trying to adjust. It's basically taking someone out of their comfort zone that it will make them feel that they can't bowl near 700 series every night. I don't really worry about the 225-230 average bowlers shooting high games in a "easy house" that I see in the paper every week because when it's time for city tournaments, their confidence level gets shot down fast. 
 
 



avabob

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Re: Scores and the houses they are shot in.
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2012, 11:50:03 PM »
I spend winters in Mesa AZ.  There are approximately 27 centers in the greater Phoenix metro area.  I have bowled in about 17 of them over the last 5 years.  All that I have bowled in are walled to the max for leagues.   Local tournies sometimes use flatter patterns, sometimes not.  There are also a couple of scratch leagues that play on sport type patterns.    There might be a toughie out there among those I haven't been to, but I doubt there is more than 1at the most. 

 

Frankly I don't have a problem with soft house shots.  Youngsters who aspire to be better mostly understand they need to develop a game that works on flatter patterns.  Most people like to hook the ball and have fun.  Let them.   



Juggernaut

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Re: Scores and the houses they are shot in.
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2012, 12:10:38 AM »
 Just as you call us predictable bittermen, I return the favor to you. Your posts are as inane and repetitive as most of the drivel you spout.

 

 You very seldom have anything positive to say, nearly always have insults to sling, and seldom if ever have anything constructive to add to any post you've ever posted in.

 I say to you, I am no bitterman, but a realist. I know that conditions cannot be the same everywhere, because this is not a perfect world, but I refuse to sit in complacency and allow the gap to become ever wider between the "haves" and the "have nots".

 

 In my post, I referred to the great USBC, asking the question as to whether they are supposed to try and make bowling an equitable endeavour for everyone, and make it as "fair" for all as possible. I know they can't make it exactly the same for everyone, but they COULD set stricter parameters for the game, and then ENFORCE those parameters better, yet they just blithely turn a blind eye towards the game, and let proprietors run rampant as they see fit.

 

 You often say "Shut up, shoe up, and bowl", and that is what I do on a regular basis. I actually wish we could get together and throw a few games. You would see I'm not as stupid as you would like me to be, and I think we would actually enjoy it. 



Sunshine n Lollipops wrote on 4/22/2012 1:38 PM:Yay.  Two more posts on the subject of bowling scores from two of the biggest bittermen on any bowling site.  What fresh and exciting things will they post this time?


 Don't believe in the Uzi, it just went off in my hand.  I, I believe in love.  


 


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qstick777

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Re: Scores and the houses they are shot in.
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2012, 12:36:42 AM »
We can look at those, but we're still going to get into a chicken and the egg scenario.....
 
The "typical league bowler" wants to bowl in an easy house.  Show up, hang out with your friends, drink some beers, throw lots of strikes, and play your card game.
 
Houses that put out more difficult shots end up chasing those bowlers away....they move to the easier house and spend their money there.
 
A year after I started bowling I subbed for several weeks in a sports league.  Me and my crappy 163 average on a THS was still able to average 160 over those 4 or 5 weeks.  Each week I'd watch those guys try to grip and rip - usually skating straight into the 6-10 pocket.  It was funny to hear them fuss and cuss about how "bad the conditions are in this place."
 
Later that year (at a different house) I watched a guy go on a 15 minute rant about how bad the place was....."I f'ing average 215 at <center X>, but up here I'm lucky to break 170....this place sucks.  They don't know how to put down the oil or something.  F this place, I'm coming back here until they figure out to do things properly."
 
Anyways, it's pretty simple.  Found the houses that are packed with leagues 7 nights a week and those are usually the houses with the "easy" conditions.
 
I can pull up my center in League Secretary and see that Fall 2011 has had 16 300s, and 7 800 series.  Fall 2010 was 10 and 5.  2009 was 5 and 1.   Place is packed every night - 40 lanes, 4-5 bowlers per team.   
 
If you're running the center, what are you going to do?

Sunshine n Lollipops

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Re: Scores and the houses they are shot in.
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2012, 12:38:15 AM »
I know we would have a good time, Juggsy.  But how many times is this dead horse going to be flogged?  You and others believe the USBC dropped the ball on equipment regulations.  Others think it is just evolution like any other sport.  Some people think that scoring is out of hand, too easy to shoot honor scores.  Others think that scoring is relative and if it was so easy why aren't all bowlers averaging 220+?    Cream rises to the top no matter what equipment or lane dressing is applied.  Some people get upset that a "THS hack" can bowl a 300 at any time.  Others know that bowlers of higher skill levels have a greater chance of bowling a 300 more often than someone of lesser skills so it doesn't bother them.  
 
Bowlers who know their game and respect the sport will bowl in the houses that put the tougher shot down, or at least an honest shot.  Those who bowl at the easier houses don't have as developed sense of pride in themselves as much as the ones that bowl at the tougher house.  It's just that simple to me and a lot of other people.  



 Don't believe in the Uzi, it just went off in my hand.  I, I believe in love.