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Author Topic: Scratch Leagues  (Read 2779 times)

SteveAustin2808

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Scratch Leagues
« on: August 11, 2011, 07:39:30 AM »
I'm just wanting to gather some insight to those of ya'll out there that bowl in Scratch Leagues as to how and what is done to make them successful.

 

We started doing this program back in the Summer of 2006 and had 12 teams but since it has fizzled.

 

We had 12 in the summer of 2006, 8 in the winter of 2006, 7 in the summer of 2007, 9 in the winter of 2007, then that is when it all went down hill. We moved it from 8:30 to 6:30 thinking it would prove beneficical but could only muster 5 to 6 teams since then. Now it is being threatened to fold.

 

We currently hold a 660 cap and even have a sponsor of $1000 for the winter and $500 for the summer.

 

I would just like to hear some insights and ideas to those of ya'll out there that bowl successful Scratch leagues.

 

Thanks for any insight and I greatly appreciate it! God Bless!

 

-MP-


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SteveAustin2808

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Re: Scratch Leagues
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2011, 09:27:51 AM »
Anybody?

 

-MP-


Michael Price - Office Manager
McCorvey's Pro Shop Staff

Phone: (256) 539-1560

McCorvey's Pro Shop - VISIT OUR BRAND NEW ONLINE STORE!
http://www.mccorveysproshop.com/

Hammer Pro Shop Regional Staff
Michael Price - Office Manager
McCorvey's Bowling World Staff - Phone: (256) 539-1560
Hammer Amateur Staff
michaelp@mccorveysproshop.com

Pinbuster

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Re: Scratch Leagues
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2011, 11:37:29 AM »
Even here in Wichita Ks. there are not a lot of true scratch leagues with a large pool of 200+ average bowlers.

 

Most want to bowl with friends in a social atmosphere.

 

When you put a cap on the league several problems pop up.

1) You can't bowl with who you want because your averages put you over the cap.

2) You and your friends aveages won't let you be competitive in the league.

3) A teams averages go over the cap and either you have to raise the cap or loose the team.

4) Capping is another way of enforcing a handicap and can encourage sandbagging to keep under the cap.

 

Uncapped leagues have a problem of super teams being formed that can dominate the league.

 

To keep the lower tier teams interested you have to pay some prize money to them and keep the cost where they don't feel too raped by the upper teams. But then you will have complaints by the top teams saying the top places don't pay enough.

 

I really don't have any answers for you. For the most part despite all their talk most of the "scratch" bowlers want an edge like they get in handicap leagues. And as long as higher prize fund handicap leagues exist they will migrate towards them where they have that edge.



hhhbs1

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Re: Scratch Leagues
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2011, 04:48:59 PM »
This is always the magical question. The main reason to have a cap is to get more teams in the league. If its uncapped you probably only have 3-5 teams that can come up with enough good bowlers to be able to compete. IMO the main reason for a cap is to force the higher avg. bowlers find people  that might not normally bowl in that kind of league to fit under the cap. This can easily turn a 5 team league into a 10-15 team league that everyone "should" be able to compete in. Then there is the issue what is a "fair" cap? What I have seen is normally a scratch league will go for about 4 maybe 5 years then for one reason or another it seems to fall apart. I grew up in Atlanta and we had one when I was younger at Cedar Creek. They had about 40 teams for many years but then faded away. I am not sure on most of the details there I was only 15-17 during that leagues hay day and think I bowled in it the last or next to last year it was around.


Perfect Approach Pro Shop

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Re: Scratch Leagues
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2011, 07:39:09 PM »
I am starting my 23rd year in the same scratch league and it has went through many changes over the years. When I first joined, it was a 4 man team, had 100 sponsor fee, had to wear collared team shirts and the league had 18 teams. The cap has varied over the years, but was always around 800.

In the mid 90's when bowling started dropping off, we got down to 12 teams. Then the bowling center closed and we moved across town. This caused us to lose a few more teams due to people not wanting to bowl at the other center. We bowled 2 years with 8 teams and dropped it to 3-man teams. This built it back up but then dropped off again. At this point, women were allowed to join and we went back up to 10-12 person teams.

Our next major change was a draft league. We have been a draft league for 6 years now. Cap was always set after the draft. We have 12 teams and team captains are the highest 12 bowlers from previous season. You have to have bowled the league previous season to be a team captain. Lowest average of the 12 picks first, highest picks last. After first round, team average are recalculated and lowest team average picks first in second round and process is done again for third round. After teams are selected, we look at highest team average and lowest team average and keep it within 25 pins. If greater than 25, highest and lowest team have option of swapping a player. Then once teams are set, the cap is highest drafted team.

Seems to work as we have more people than we have slots for. Any question pertaining to this, PM me.

J. Helton
Perfect Approach Pro Shop
J. Helton
Perfect Approach Pro Shop

Hogsharley

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Re: Scratch Leagues
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2011, 08:29:58 PM »
Too many ego's to deal with for it to work in the houses around me.
 



Perfect Approach Pro Shop wrote on 8/15/2011 7:39 PM:I am starting my 23rd year in the same scratch league and it has went through many changes over the years. When I first joined, it was a 4 man team, had 100 sponsor fee, had to wear collared team shirts and the league had 18 teams. The cap has varied over the years, but was always around 800.

In the mid 90's when bowling started dropping off, we got down to 12 teams. Then the bowling center closed and we moved across town. This caused us to lose a few more teams due to people not wanting to bowl at the other center. We bowled 2 years with 8 teams and dropped it to 3-man teams. This built it back up but then dropped off again. At this point, women were allowed to join and we went back up to 10-12 person teams.

Our next major change was a draft league. We have been a draft league for 6 years now. Cap was always set after the draft. We have 12 teams and team captains are the highest 12 bowlers from previous season. You have to have bowled the league previous season to be a team captain. Lowest average of the 12 picks first, highest picks last. After first round, team average are recalculated and lowest team average picks first in second round and process is done again for third round. After teams are selected, we look at highest team average and lowest team average and keep it within 25 pins. If greater than 25, highest and lowest team have option of swapping a player. Then once teams are set, the cap is highest drafted team.

Seems to work as we have more people than we have slots for. Any question pertaining to this, PM me.

J. Helton
Perfect Approach Pro Shop


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Jorge300

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Re: Scratch Leagues
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2011, 08:27:17 AM »
My thoughts on this are varied. Luckily I have been able to find good scratch leagues no matter where I have lived. The main driver will be do you have enough interest and bowlers willing to bowl in a scratch league. If the answer is yes, then it comes about finding a way to attact them to your league. My thoughts would be to offer something different. Maybe it is making it a sports shot/PBA experience league. We started this when I live in CA, and it worked well. But it was a singles league, we bowled best 3 out 5 and the winner was determined by winning%, not just total wins. Not practical for a team league. Another way to differentiate your league could be to offer a large prize for first. It may mean higher sponser fees per team and higher league fees, which could be a tough sell in today's economy, but it could help generate interest. Maybe it could be a 3 member team, bowling a Peterson Point type of format.....4 games you bowl 1 team for the first 2 games, move and bowl a second team for last 2 games.

 

I don't think the cap is the problem. I bowled in a league in Norcal, that had 4 member teams with an 800 cap, and it never moved. In the early 2000's that league never had less then 32 teams when I bowled it. It also cost between $35-$40/ night to bowl. But first prize was $10,000. We also enforced a dress code, black slacks, collared team shirts (paid for by the league out of the sponsor fees which was $300/team, the league had a deal with a local place that stitched team names on the back and person's first name on the front as well as a league logo), no hats, etc. Not sure if that would work today with the economy the way it is. This league also offered a playoff system....it ran in thirds with 3 divisions. So 9 spots in the playoffs from there, 3 Wild Cards - most points without a division win (or more if 1 team won more then 1 third) and then 2 teams came out of a last chance rolloff. Every team not in the playoffs would show up on a Saturday before the last night of league. Roll 3 games, and then the top 8-10 teams based on total pins would get seeded and roll 2 game matches using the league point system until you were down to just 2 teams (ties broken by total pins of the 2 game matches). So 14 teams in, and then you rolled 2 game matches in the playoffs the 2 lowest WC teams would roll the 2 teams out of the last chance tournament (seed 11 vs seed 14, 12 vs 13) then the two winners would roll the next 2 lowest seed, etc. This would carry over into Sunday if you kept winning. Then on the last league night, the team that came out of the Sunday playoff would roll the team that was the #1 seed for the championship, while the rest of the league would roll a sweeper night with prizes to the top men/women/teams etc. This way there was an incentive to be the #1 seed, worst you could do was second place. Not sure I agree with that, the format could be tweeked when you got down to say 8 teams left to bring in the top seed and roll 1 vs 8, 2 vs 7, etc and then continue until there are just 2 teams left or bring in the top seed at 4 teams left, etc.

 

Just some thoughts, hope it helps.


Jorge300

Jorge300

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Re: Scratch Leagues
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2011, 05:05:17 PM »
Ive seen a peterson point scratch league where there were defined averages work very well. For example... a 5 man team with A, B, C, D and E bowlers.... Where A bowlers are unlimited averages, B bowlers 210-219, C bowlers are 200-209, D bowlers are 190-199 and E bowlers are 189 and under. A bowlers compete against A bowlers...etc . The point system is: each person has 5 points per night (one for each game and 2 for totals) x 5 bowlers = 25 points. Plus team points are 4 per game and 8 for total = 20 points for a total of 45 point per night. 
 
This format allows individuals to compete against similarly skilled opponents while still competing in a team. Usually, this allows friends to bowl together and forces a team max as well. Lots of other benifits
 


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