Author Topic: Selfish Bowlers: Follow up Part 2 - RANT (Read 12305 times)

pin-chaser · « **on:** January 12, 2010, 08:08:01 AM »

The tored bowling pace of today is NOT the product of any ONE specific issue. It is a product of the science of taking advantage of everything available. Having been a mechanic in the 70's and 80's and being responsible for some of the highest scoring paces in the nation during those times I can tell you for a FACT that todays THS is no different than those back in my day. I can tell you with out a question that BALLS react on SYNTHETIC surfaces completely different today. I average 220's then and average 230's today but the difference is about 100 games a week of practice less now (not to mention I will be 50 this year and took off 15 years out of the last 20).

Bowling should be a sport!!! And those that compete at the highest levels should be considered athletes... I dont beleive anyone here would disagree with this simple statement.

The problem of how to get there is incredibally difficult and is more politics than technology. From my vantage point the real obsticle to overcome is simply the fact that the majority of bowlers today only "know" bowling from thier specific perspective. The vast majority of bowlers today have been bowling since 1990's (the advent of technologies that has brought forth the scoring pace). Those bowlers who understand the differences (who competed prior) are a much smaller minority and have little to no input in making changes and are typically ridculed. Where else do the "experts" and those the experience have so little worth??

Integrity in bowling is at the core of this topic. The fact that nearly every record has been re-established since 1997 since the inception of the sport in 1890 despite a reduction of bowlers from the heydays in the 70's-80's of ~10M to ~4M today certianly speaks to the fact that scoring is too easy and integrity has been compromised. When in the 70 there were ~10,000 300 games with ~10M bowlers and today there are ~100,000 300 games with ~4M bowlers again speaks to the fact that things have gotten out of hand.

The debate here is about how best to neutalize the scoring pace or in effect increase integrity without alienating those that bowl today. Frankly even a baby cries when someone takes away there deserts but calms down in time. Clearly the approach has to be slow and overtime or else it will threaten some. But does the sport have the time? But before that can happen an approach needs to be defined. And until you have enough information you cant define a path.

Today, here in Memphis, you cant get one scratch league together period, despite having 4 bowlers average over 230, 40 bowlers or 220 and 160 bowlers between 200 and 220. That is over 200 bowlers who have registered averages over 200 and we cant put on the floor even a 10 team, 50 bowlers. Does that speak to integrity?? You do not have even 1 sport league during the winter in any house. You cant get more than around ~10 people to show up to pot bowl when you are giving them free lineage ($3.00 for unlimited bowling on fresh oil), playing 2-3 places and only putting up $5 per game (basically no risk). If handicap is not included 99% of the bowlers here will not bowl period. I suspect that is the case in most US.

I shot my 1st 300 in 1978 and a 72 lane center stopped to watch me in the 10th. Today even here in Memphis you get ridiculed by some who have 20 or 30 because they know it is too easy. The highest achievment in bowling is a joke. 900 series twice by the same "kid" and he is a joke (maybe validly no one really knows for sure). National high averages over 260 (Can you imagine 780 to shoot your average).

Integrity is not only about scoring. There is no real solution for handicaping. There will always be cheaters. But the governing body should simply throw them out but cant (because of law suites). None the less, here in Memphis, you cant simply get a scratch league to eliminate those that cheat. Besides, with the limited number of bowlers left accross the nation, scratch league bowlers would be bowling against limited number of bowlers in each area anyway.

Bowling needs a complete overhaul from the ground up. What is left is so messed up that it might not be fixable in a way that does not preclude starting over with a different plan anyway. Here are some of my ideas as to a possible direction....

1. Determine clearly defined skill levels and allow appropriate level of technology of each level. (I dont know what these would be as some group should be responsible for the definitions... however as an example: easiest scoring level open play or open league level where the maximum fun can be obtained, any technology.... Next level could be leagues where the skill leveled required could require the ability to maintain accurracy of 5 degrees, ball speed within 1mph, rev rate within 100 rpm and lane patterns to allow those that can does to average 210 with limited ball flare and limited friction, the next level could be a league that requires accuracy of 2.5 degrees, ball speed with .5mph, rev rate within 50mph and lane patterns to allow a 210 average with even more limited ball flare and friction....etc...
2. Build the sport to have integirty built in by having the sport fund itself. The national oragainzational body should ensure that MEN and WOMEN both have the highest level of competion befiting sport. An increase is dues of $5 could provide $20M in prize funds in addition to the sponsorships. In return these PRO's should be required to give back to there local communities by offering summer coaching especially the youth, bowling center or pro shop support, local association responsibilities and exhibitions to draw more interest.
3. A third party independant non-profit organization to maintain the integrity by defining #1 above and mainting the long term scoring pace ensuring that skill is the primary factor. This would include all technologies, pins, surfaces, balls, lane specifications...etc.
4. Consistent and accurate methodologies and definitions for all bowling items.

I have more... but until bowling takes bowling serious no one else will. Look at the sports that are in the olypmics and then look at why bowling is not. Defined standards if execution... not subjected to abnormal abouts of luck. Bowling should be the same.

DavidKSNK · « **Reply #91 on:** January 21, 2010, 07:07:51 AM »

quote:
quote:
Certain skill sets still exist, especially at the upper levels. Alot of you guys act like anybody can just go buy a new steroid ball and join the PBA tour right now. I know better than that. You guys know better, too.
Right now id say that in general, scoring overall is more even than ever before. At what other time can you recall when you can have a 120 lb guy with 5 revs be able to keep up score wise with another guy who has a 450 rev rate and tons of speed?

Look, this is an old argument. When i first started bowling, it was Strokers vs. Crankers. All i heard was how much Crankers had the advantage. Strokers would be mad to no end because Crankers could miss a couple boards either way and still hit the pocket. Strokers miss and it the big four or the bucket.
If you reign in technology, scale back the power of the balls then it becomes exactly what it was in the 70''s and early 80''s, advantage to high rev rates and bowlers who can create area, not much different than what we already have today.

At least today bowlers of all styles, rev rates, ball speed have an equal opportunity to score. What ive learned then and now, is the one''s that cry for change and blame balls and conditons and say we need to fix it are usually the ones who have been left behind, or cant adapt to current conditions.

All we hear is that steroid balls and conditions are the reasons why the sport is declining. NO! The sport is declining because of the internet, video games, and television. Kids could care less about learning sports now days, its so much easier to sit behind a computer and play than to actually get out of the house and learn something. When i started bowling, all bowling had to compete with was movie theaters, concerts, ect. You want to blame technology, that is fine, just blame the technology that bowling itself has to compete with. This is why Youth participation, and participation in general is down.
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Couldn't agree more! +1000. Give it up DavidSNK, your entitled to your opinion but you are in the minority on this one.

Just because I'm in the minority doesn't somehow make what I said any less true.

You think what I'm saying is an opinion, it's not an opinion, it's a fact. Most people here don't really understand how much the high tech equipment weakens the sport of bowling.

Everything regarding equipment has been backed up by the ball studies Kegel has conducted on their own. Not to mention maybe you should listen to what the guys out there like Brian Voss have said about high tech equipment.

DavidKSNK · « **Reply #92 on:** January 21, 2010, 07:13:24 AM »

quote:
I applaud the above statement. The game is vastly different in both technology and in reverence as a sport. As leagues have declined and the customer base is smaller, houses look at ways to keep people happy which is usually interpretted as "scoring pace". Again the lesser customer base is relevant to todays social enviroment. Less people, less practice and overall the sport is less exciting as tremendous amounts of other sports and social activities have entered the picture. Bowling is kind of a "lost art" like manners. I am one who doe not believe in technology is the root of evil. If anything it has made better players as they have to understand things like, RG,differential, coverstock prep, drill patterns, breakpoints and oil patterns to be successful in serious competition.(Please note THS in most cases don''t count as you can score with just about anything) The more variables you add the more defined you must be. I''ve given up on the issue of integrity its totally personal choice. If your not serious then it really doesn''t matter anyways and there is not really enough serious bowlers left. Debate it all you want, unless something or someone groundbreaking comes along, its just spinning wheels and themud gets gradually deeper.

P.S. - Pin Chaser, wheres the integrity of a guy who borrows equipment and never gives it back. I''m waiting its only been since 2007.
Selfish Bowler:Rant - Was the title self proclaimed!!!

Edited on 1/20/2010 9:00 PM

The more complicated you make a sport, the less interest people are ever going to have in it. It turns people off...bowling used to be very simple for people to understand...if you wanted to get better, you learned how to physically get better, now there is little emphasis on getting physically better.

stopncrank · « **Reply #93 on:** January 21, 2010, 07:49:45 AM »

I've already said that when talent is relatively equal as it is at the PBA level, ball selection matters too much. Not to mention you see a lot of times, a pro make a ball change and go from averaging 190 to 240+. There's no skill in that, and the best bowler is not always being rewarded. -Davidsnk

I bowled in the days when you could take 1 ball to a tournament and be competitive. I also bowl today where i think you even said guys lug 10-15 balls around all the time. From personal experience i can tell you the game is much HARDER for me now than back then because of ball selection, its another variable i have to consider when i bowl.

Those who have the most success over the long haul are never the crankers...there are a few exceptions, but those who can go down the boards are the ones who have the most success out on tour.-Davidsnk

Ever heard of Mark Roth? I think he was a cranker, and im pretty sure he dominated an entire era from the mid to late 70's on till the early 80's. Mark Roth could play anywhere on the lanes, just like Robert Smith can today. Tommy Jones has made a pretty good name for himself the last few years, and Wes Malott too. How many titles have you seen Wes and Tommy win playing straight? And how about the plastic ball championship tournament last year, didnt Jeff Carter win that? He's not exactly a stroker is he? You scale back ball technology like they did for this tournament and the results speak for themselves, the ones with higher rev rates have a clear advantage. I dont remember seeing Walter ray or Norm Duke on that show. Probably couldnt carry. How many titles did WRW win before resin? I would bet my paycheck WRW isnt on Len's list you mention below, LOL.

Those crying for change can't adapt?

The former PBA laneman for many years, Len Nicholson, has a list of 70+ PBA champions who have signed their name calling for restrictions on the current equipment. That includes current touring players. So to make some blanket statement like you made is incredibly misguided.-Davidsnk

This statement i made in general, not particularly directed toward the tour in general. I havent seen this list, and since you didnt list players directly im guessing you havent seen it either. Anyone can say they have something. I would venture out on a limb and again say i bet WRW isnt on that list.

Basically you advocate people being rewarded for not trying to get better...that isn't going to grow bowling as a sport at all. The current game is too complicated as it stands right now, and there is a significant lack of fairness in play. The PBA tour was at its fairest point back in 1971...nearly 40 years later they have more problems out there than they did in '71.-Davidsnk[/quote]

Where have i ever said i advocate people not getting better? If anything you have to be sharper today than way back when because of the variables in volved with lane play and ball selection. I dont mind debateing but do not put words in my mouth to make YOUR point.

Bowling isnt growing because of the exact reasons i listed in an earlier post, kids would rather play video games and stay on the internet all day then to go to a bowling center. Thats not hard to understand, sit on you rear end all day doing nothing, or actually getting up and doing something physical like bowling. As lazy as kids are, i can guess what their choice is gonna be.

You just said in your last paragraph bowling is too complicated as it is. How can something be COMPLICATED, but yet you argue that scoring is TOO easy? I would venture to say if something is complicated, it isnt EASY.

Lack of fairness? How the heck do you get lack of fairness when every style of bowler you can think of can win on tour? Lack of fairness existed on tour when they purposely oiled the lanes trying to shut out Lefty's, only to have a guy named EARL win the tournament. Im sure your boy Len Nicholson can tell you those stories too. That doesnt happen these days as much Because of equipment. If anything the balls have eliminated the lane man dictating who wins. Ill take my chances anyday guessing which ball i should use as opposed to a laneman shutting me out.
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Taking your lunch money, one strike at a time....

stopncrank · « **Reply #94 on:** January 21, 2010, 08:00:10 AM »

The more complicated you make a sport, the less interest people are ever going to have in it. It turns people off...bowling used to be very simple for people to understand...if you wanted to get better, you learned how to physically get better, now there is little emphasis on getting physically better.[/quote]

Wouldnt scaling back the balls add to the complications? Bowlers today already are lazy as it is, take away the balls and tell them they actually have to get better physically? You'll run off what little bowlers we have left lol.

As far as guys on tour, they are physically better than Am's and league bowlers. Show me where Joe bowler from Anywhere, USA can get to the PBA tour just because of the ball he uses? You cant because the PBA guys ARE that much better physically. Ball technology can only get you so far.
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Taking your lunch money, one strike at a time....

DavidKSNK · « **Reply #95 on:** January 21, 2010, 09:20:09 AM »

quote:
quote:

Just because I'm in the minority doesn't somehow make what I said any less true.

You think what I'm saying is an opinion, it's not an opinion, it's a fact. Most people here don't really understand how much the high tech equipment weakens the sport of bowling.

Everything regarding equipment has been backed up by the ball studies Kegel has conducted on their own. Not to mention maybe you should listen to what the guys out there like Brian Voss have said about high tech equipment.

Oh, okay. I didn't realize that you said it is a fact and not your opinion. That makes a big difference. YOU have said it's a fact so I guess that's the end of it. What a joke.

Voss? A guy who hasn't been able to adapt his game to take advantage of the new balls and open a lane up. The same guy who suggested that lanes should have hazards such as high and low spots much like a golf course? Yeah, he's a great pro with many titles but pretty much from a different era. Not really all that relevant anymore. I stand by what I said, so I guess that makes this a "fact"...you have been told you're barking up the wrong tree and now you're just making yourself look foolish and obstinate. How many times are you going to post the same thing over and over?

You really have little to no clue about bowling in general.

Good luck with that.

DavidKSNK · « **Reply #96 on:** January 21, 2010, 09:23:36 AM »

quote:
The more complicated you make a sport, the less interest people are ever going to have in it. It turns people off...bowling used to be very simple for people to understand...if you wanted to get better, you learned how to physically get better, now there is little emphasis on getting physically better.

Wouldnt scaling back the balls add to the complications? Bowlers today already are lazy as it is, take away the balls and tell them they actually have to get better physically? You'll run off what little bowlers we have left lol.

As far as guys on tour, they are physically better than Am's and league bowlers. Show me where Joe bowler from Anywhere, USA can get to the PBA tour just because of the ball he uses? You cant because the PBA guys ARE that much better physically. Ball technology can only get you so far.
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Taking your lunch money, one strike at a time....[/quote]

Making lane conditions difficult to the point that you need the right ball in hand just to have a halfway decent ball reaction is a massive turnoff. Notice how PBAX participation is terrible for the most part? Why do you think that is? Make the pocket impossible to hit people will not bowl. This has already been proven in the real world. If people can hit the pocket consistently, they will be happy. Notice that has nothing to do with carry when hitting the pocket.

Also, I don't care about your average recreational leagues. It's not a sport, it's just a game that means nothing.

DavidKSNK · « **Reply #97 on:** January 21, 2010, 09:33:43 AM »

quote:

Where have i ever said i advocate people not getting better? If anything you have to be sharper today than way back when because of the variables in volved with lane play and ball selection. I dont mind debateing but do not put words in my mouth to make YOUR point.

Bowling isnt growing because of the exact reasons i listed in an earlier post, kids would rather play video games and stay on the internet all day then to go to a bowling center. Thats not hard to understand, sit on you rear end all day doing nothing, or actually getting up and doing something physical like bowling. As lazy as kids are, i can guess what their choice is gonna be.

You just said in your last paragraph bowling is too complicated as it is. How can something be COMPLICATED, but yet you argue that scoring is TOO easy? I would venture to say if something is complicated, it isnt EASY.

Lack of fairness? How the heck do you get lack of fairness when every style of bowler you can think of can win on tour? Lack of fairness existed on tour when they purposely oiled the lanes trying to shut out Lefty's, only to have a guy named EARL win the tournament. Im sure your boy Len Nicholson can tell you those stories too. That doesnt happen these days as much Because of equipment. If anything the balls have eliminated the lane man dictating who wins. Ill take my chances anyday guessing which ball i should use as opposed to a laneman shutting me out.
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Taking your lunch money, one strike at a time....

I like how you think things are fairer now...they most certainly are not. Fairness as it pertains to the sport of bowling relates to the ability to show up for a tournament, and have results based on your level of skill, not your ability to make the right ball choice. Is ever possible to achieve 100% fairness? No, it's the nature of the sport. However, the higher the oil volumes on the lane are, the more chaotic the lane environment becomes because of all of the oil moving around. You wind up with conditions changing every 3-4 frames because of the volatile nature of lane oil. Walk down the gutter caps and take a look at the oil pattern before anyone bowls on it, then walk down and do the same thing after you have 30 games on those lanes with the current equipment in play. The pattern doesn't even resemble what it started out as. I've seen 3D graphs on what happens to the patterns, and it's not pretty, nor is it doing anything good. In fact massive inequities from the right to left side have become even more predominant than they ever have been due to the volumes of oil. We're currently at 70 times the amount of oil on the lanes than we were in 1970. Plus the composition of the oil has changed drastically to add viscosity to the lane conditioner. This has occurred with the advent of each new ball technology dating back to the introduction of plastic equipment.

Also the sport of bowling growing versus that of recreational bowling are two different things. If you want to grow recreational bowling, it takes a bit of effort, which is something most proprietors don't take the time to do because of laziness.

stopncrank · « **Reply #98 on:** January 21, 2010, 09:48:02 AM »

Making lane conditions difficult to the point that you need the right ball in hand just to have a halfway decent ball reaction is a massive turnoff. Notice how PBAX participation is terrible for the most part? Why do you think that is? Make the pocket impossible to hit people will not bowl. This has already been proven in the real world. If people can hit the pocket consistently, they will be happy. Notice that has nothing to do with carry when hitting the pocket.

Have you not watched any PBA telecasts this year? From the WSOB, to the Earl Anthony tournament this past weekend Ive NEVER seen more Sub-200 games in all the time ive watched bowling. Which proves one thing-No matter how strong steroid balls are, Lanes can be prepared to take these balls out of the equation. The WSOB was more of just a horrible lane surface/topography issue, whereas The Earl Anthony was just a nasty oil pattern that put a premium on shotmaking and staying clean, no matter what ball you had. And i thought it was interesting that Anthony LaCaze who won Sunday, did so with a Hammer Black Onyx Vibe, certainly not the strongest ball out there by any means.

Also, taking balls away that create area at the breakpoint, regressing ball technology to the point that it makes the pocket smaller, is also a turnoff. There again like you said, make the pocket impossible to hit, people will not bowl. Just hitting the pocket doesnt make me happy, the purpose of hitting the pocket is to strike. I dont care wether im throwing plastic, urethane whatever i want to strike. I dont know of anybody who enjoys making spares vs. striking.

Also, I don't care about your average recreational leagues. It's not a sport, it's just a game that means nothing.[/quote]

Why wouldnt you care about recreational leagues? Do you care about Youth Leagues? Every bowler has to start somewhere. Show me one PBA Exempt bowler right now who didnt bowl one league before joining the PBA! Not gonna happen. So i assume you dont think Rec/Youth leagues have any bearing or influence on the PBA tour? Its a game that gives the Youth bowlers the incentive to strive to be a Professional Bowler. Rec/Youth leagues are very important, if bowling is gonna get back to where it used to be.
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Taking your lunch money, one strike at a time....

stopncrank · « **Reply #99 on:** January 21, 2010, 10:04:05 AM »

I like how you think things are fairer now...they most certainly are not. Fairness as it pertains to the sport of bowling relates to the ability to show up for a tournament, and have results based on your level of skill, not your ability to make the right ball choice. Is ever possible to achieve 100% fairness? No, it's the nature of the sport. However, the higher the oil volumes on the lane are, the more chaotic the lane environment becomes because of all of the oil moving around. You wind up with conditions changing every 3-4 frames because of the volatile nature of lane oil. Walk down the gutter caps and take a look at the oil pattern before anyone bowls on it, then walk down and do the same thing after you have 30 games on those lanes with the current equipment in play. The pattern doesn't even resemble what it started out as. I've seen 3D graphs on what happens to the patterns, and it's not pretty, nor is it doing anything good. In fact massive inequities from the right to left side have become even more predominant than they ever have been due to the volumes of oil. We're currently at 70 times the amount of oil on the lanes than we were in 1970. Plus the composition of the oil has changed drastically to add viscosity to the lane conditioner. This has occurred with the advent of each new ball technology dating back to the introduction of plastic equipment.

So i guess lane patterns never got blown to bits by soaker balls back in the 70's? Lane conditions carried down every 3-4 frames back when i started. It was the nature of the game back then, just like lane oil breakdown is now days. It doesnt matter how much oil is on the lane, the most dominating factor for scoring these days is friction, more importantly where the friction is on the lane. Im sure Patterns back in the 70's were longer after alot of play, so id imagine they didnt resemble what they looked like to start with either. Ive bowled tournaments when i first got started prior to reactive resin where i knew from watching my ball reaction vs. that of a lefty in the same tournament that i had no chance what so ever to win because of how they were oiled. Ive also seen guys in the urethane days sand Blue hammers to 500 grit to break lanes down to give them a better shot, yeah it was happening way back then too. I stand by my stance, ill take my chances selecting the right ball in my hands vs. donating because the laneman wants to dictate who wins. Im beginning to think you might be a laneman.

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Taking your lunch money, one strike at a time....

DavidKSNK · « **Reply #100 on:** January 21, 2010, 01:29:04 PM »

quote:
I like how you think things are fairer now...they most certainly are not. Fairness as it pertains to the sport of bowling relates to the ability to show up for a tournament, and have results based on your level of skill, not your ability to make the right ball choice. Is ever possible to achieve 100% fairness? No, it's the nature of the sport. However, the higher the oil volumes on the lane are, the more chaotic the lane environment becomes because of all of the oil moving around. You wind up with conditions changing every 3-4 frames because of the volatile nature of lane oil. Walk down the gutter caps and take a look at the oil pattern before anyone bowls on it, then walk down and do the same thing after you have 30 games on those lanes with the current equipment in play. The pattern doesn't even resemble what it started out as. I've seen 3D graphs on what happens to the patterns, and it's not pretty, nor is it doing anything good. In fact massive inequities from the right to left side have become even more predominant than they ever have been due to the volumes of oil. We're currently at 70 times the amount of oil on the lanes than we were in 1970. Plus the composition of the oil has changed drastically to add viscosity to the lane conditioner. This has occurred with the advent of each new ball technology dating back to the introduction of plastic equipment.

So i guess lane patterns never got blown to bits by soaker balls back in the 70's? Lane conditions carried down every 3-4 frames back when i started. It was the nature of the game back then, just like lane oil breakdown is now days. It doesnt matter how much oil is on the lane, the most dominating factor for scoring these days is friction, more importantly where the friction is on the lane. Im sure Patterns back in the 70's were longer after alot of play, so id imagine they didnt resemble what they looked like to start with either. Ive bowled tournaments when i first got started prior to reactive resin where i knew from watching my ball reaction vs. that of a lefty in the same tournament that i had no chance what so ever to win because of how they were oiled. Ive also seen guys in the urethane days sand Blue hammers to 500 grit to break lanes down to give them a better shot, yeah it was happening way back then too. I stand by my stance, ill take my chances selecting the right ball in my hands vs. donating because the laneman wants to dictate who wins. Im beginning to think you might be a laneman.

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Taking your lunch money, one strike at a time....

Kegel has already done the ball motion studies necessary to show what happens to the patterns using reactive resin equipment, and when using a standardized ball which IIRC, was a plastic/urethane blend. After 30 games with their standardized ball, the pattern (which was designed for the ball) was largely unchanged which can't be said with the same amount of games on a pattern with the high tech garbage. Some well known exempt pros actually went to Kegel and bowled on this. You should check out the information, it's pretty interesting. I used to think all that needed to be done was make the lane conditions tougher, I've long since changed that mindset because I've seen first hand why making them tougher is not a good thing.

DavidKSNK · « **Reply #101 on:** January 21, 2010, 01:32:26 PM »

quote:
I'm thinking pumpkinA and DavidSNK are one in the same. Same stubborness, same refusing to admit that their view is in the minority. I have probably forgot more about bowling than you've ever known. Might you post a link to a video of you bowling so we can see just exactly what your skill set is? Would go a long way in explaining where you're coming from. Here's what I think, you are a rev-challenged bowler who learned to suitcase the ball. You cannot learn the modern game and you resent anybody that can put something on the ball and play an angle you can only wet-dream about. Because all you can ever hope to score with your weak style is maybe a 215, you're locked out of winning pots making you even more bitter. Instead of getting better or changing your style, you instead blame the game itself. Whatever.

LOL

Like I said, when you learn something about bowling, let me know.

Till then, good luck with that horrible attitude. You won't ever accomplish anything in bowling being so miserable.

Also just to show you how little you know, if I was rev challenged, it would stand to reason I would prefer the modern game simply because of the assisting the steroid balls give. The people who are most vehement about any restrictions to ball technology are those who stand the most to lose by it.

DavidKSNK · « **Reply #102 on:** January 21, 2010, 01:34:59 PM »

quote:
Oh ho. Your not pumpkinA, your that other a-hole thrownxs! Whatever, buddy. You posted your thoughts and opinions, time and time again, most people found them to be off base, and you can't accept it. Now you're called out, asked to provide proof of your skills to show us you can put your money where your mouth is, and you ignore that. Your the one with the attitude problem. A man's got to know his limitations and it's obvious you don't or you wouldn't keep trying to defend a defenseless position.

I have nothing to prove to some hack who probably gets all excited over the thought of shooting 300 on some super wall and doesn't know anything about bowling.

Good luck with that awesome attitude...you're going so far in life.

By the way, quoting Dirty Harry shows such a lack of imagination on your part.

stopncrank · « **Reply #103 on:** January 21, 2010, 01:41:34 PM »

quote:
quote:
I'm thinking pumpkinA and DavidSNK are one in the same. Same stubborness, same refusing to admit that their view is in the minority. I have probably forgot more about bowling than you've ever known. Might you post a link to a video of you bowling so we can see just exactly what your skill set is? Would go a long way in explaining where you're coming from. Here's what I think, you are a rev-challenged bowler who learned to suitcase the ball. You cannot learn the modern game and you resent anybody that can put something on the ball and play an angle you can only wet-dream about. Because all you can ever hope to score with your weak style is maybe a 215, you're locked out of winning pots making you even more bitter. Instead of getting better or changing your style, you instead blame the game itself. Whatever.

LOL

Like I said, when you learn something about bowling, let me know.

Till then, good luck with that horrible attitude. You won't ever accomplish anything in bowling being so miserable.

Also just to show you how little you know, if I was rev challenged, it would stand to reason I would prefer the modern game simply because of the assisting the steroid balls give. The people who are most vehement about any restrictions to ball technology are those who stand the most to lose by it.

It doesnt matter to me whether they eliminate steroid balls or not, actually i would prefer it beleive it or not because i wont have bowlers with 2 revs playing deeper than me destroying my shot. Eliminate those balls and the revless bowlers will be complaining. It will give me an advantage so to speak by actually haveing people play where they should be playing, outside of my line. I rarely see enough oil in leagues and tournaments to even use my Virtual Gravity for a whole game, much less a whole tournament or league set. The strongest ball im using right now is am Original Eraser.
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Taking your lunch money, one strike at a time....

DavidKSNK · « **Reply #104 on:** January 21, 2010, 01:50:53 PM »

quote:
I haven't bowled on a typical house shot in years. The easiest conditions I bowl on now are the Kegel Challenge patterns. Instead of b$tching about how easy the THS is, me and the rest of the mature people on here looked for conditions that are more challenging. You might want to put more effort into learning how to bowl on those tougher conditions instead of making yourself look more foolish with every post. Others beside me have shot your argument full of holes time and time again. Just stay down. No shame in admitting you are wrong. Do it. It will free your mind, thrown or pumpkin, whatever you're calling yourself this moment.

Congratulations, you bowl on the Kegel Challenge patterns. Would you like an award for it?

No one has shot argument "full of holes", because to do so, it would require facts that actually support the opposite. I advise you to do some serious research in the balls and lane conditions so you understand what's going on. Kegel can provide you without of the needed information you're so severely lacking in.

stopncrank · « **Reply #105 on:** January 21, 2010, 02:01:20 PM »

Seeing as how Kegel produces lane maintenence equipment, im sure their opinions and findings on the subject wouldnt be biased at all, right? They wouldnt make a penny off the situation right?
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Taking your lunch money, one strike at a time....

Author Topic: Selfish Bowlers: Follow up Part 2 - RANT (Read 12305 times)

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Selfish Bowlers: Follow up Part 2 - RANT

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stopncrank

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stopncrank

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DavidKSNK

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DavidKSNK

Re: Selfish Bowlers: Follow up Part 2 - RANT

DavidKSNK

Re: Selfish Bowlers: Follow up Part 2 - RANT

stopncrank

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DavidKSNK

Re: Selfish Bowlers: Follow up Part 2 - RANT

DavidKSNK

Re: Selfish Bowlers: Follow up Part 2 - RANT

DavidKSNK

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stopncrank

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stopncrank

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