Author Topic: Setting up the prize fund and payouts? (Read 20911 times)

splendorlex · « **on:** August 07, 2007, 12:55:54 AM »

I figure there have got to be a few people here who have experience with this. We had our league meeting last night, and among other things decided to create a prize fund "committee" of three people, and I foolishly volunteered.

I've taken a look at what we'll have total, and for a 16 team league our total prize fund will be about 21k. That's after taking out the secretary's fees and such. What are some of the awards your league gives out, and what are some of the things you'd LIKE to see? Thanks in advance for your input!
--------------------
Mr. Lebowski, this is Bill Salnicker with the Southern Cal Bowling League, and I just got a, an informal report, that a member of your team, uh, Walter Sobchak, drew a firearm during league play. If this is true of course, it contravenes a number of the league's by-laws, and article 27 of the league...

shelley · « **Reply #1 on:** August 07, 2007, 09:48:49 AM »

We always pay high game and series, both handicap and scratch. Also high average and most improved. You can't win more than one of the high game/series awards and the most improved. High average is separate, it can be won with any of the others. Then we split the remaining prize fund in half (we have a split season) and divide it up. Whatever's left over goes to the winner of the roll-off.

I have a prize fund program that does exactly that. You specify what awards you want to give out and some minimum bonus for the roll-off winner (sometimes the leftovers aren't real big), then divides it up. It has a virtual knob for controlling how top heavy or evenly the position payouts are. I will try today to compile it for Windows and I can send it to you.

SH

Edited on 8/7/2007 9:50 AM

splendorlex · « **Reply #2 on:** August 07, 2007, 09:51:35 AM »

Sounds great, SH, thanks!
--------------------
Mr. Lebowski, this is Bill Salnicker with the Southern Cal Bowling League, and I just got a, an informal report, that a member of your team, uh, Walter Sobchak, drew a firearm during league play. If this is true of course, it contravenes a number of the league's by-laws, and article 27 of the league...

qstick777 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 07, 2007, 09:59:43 AM »

Shelley, it's already been compiled. Links to that and another prize fund (in excel) are in this post: http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=169670&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5

--------------------
Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ

Search Ballreviews entire database here

shelley · « **Reply #4 on:** August 07, 2007, 10:07:20 AM »

quote:
Shelley, it's already been compiled.

I couldn't remember if you had the latest version or not. You'd mentioned not getting any HTML output, so I wasn't sure. Did you try giving a filename on the command line?

C:\> prizefund.exe out.html

SH

splendorlex · « **Reply #5 on:** August 07, 2007, 10:18:37 AM »

Thanks Q, I wasn't aware of that thread or I wouldn't have started this one!

--------------------
Mr. Lebowski, this is Bill Salnicker with the Southern Cal Bowling League, and I just got a, an informal report, that a member of your team, uh, Walter Sobchak, drew a firearm during league play. If this is true of course, it contravenes a number of the league's by-laws, and article 27 of the league...

qstick777 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 07, 2007, 10:27:02 AM »

Shelley, yes I did that and it worked. I meant to go back and give a smartarse comment about you not including directions.....you know, for us point and click computer guys

, but I forgot!

Splendorlex, no problem, it was 2 weeks ago....which is a lifetime for this section! Both programs work really well. The excel spreadsheet is a little easier for tweaking the payout weighing, but Shelley's program gives you the option of defining the number of teams and determining your own individual and team awards (I believe the excel program is fixed at 16, 24, 32).

You should be able to use both and come up with what you are looking for.

--------------------
Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ

Search Ballreviews entire database here

pagnouch · « **Reply #7 on:** August 07, 2007, 10:34:48 AM »

Can the excel program be changed to 18 teams?
--------------------
Champions Train-Losers Complain!!

janderson · « **Reply #8 on:** August 07, 2007, 11:02:39 AM »

In response to the original post, when I do a prize fund, I like to see the majority (80%+) of the prize fund awarded as point money; you earn so much for each point you win. Then, you award individual prizes and team place bonuses (on top of prize money) for top-placing teams. As every team will win points, every team will win money.

Just a quick example, using your data of 16 teams and $21,000 prize fund. I'll assume a standard 7 point league over 35 weeks.

$21,000 x 80% = $16,800 (max point pool)

7 points per match x 8 matches per week x 35 weeks = 1960 total points

$16,800 max point pool / 1960 total points = approx $8.50 per point (rounded down)

$8.50 per point x 1960 total points = $16,660 actual point prize fund

$21,000 - $16660 = $4340 for individual prizes


$ 1000 team bonus for first place
   800 team bonus for second place
   500 team bonus for third place
   300 team bonus for fourth place

   100 high individual average
   100 high individual scratch series
   100 high individual handicap series
   100 high individual scratch game
   100 high individual handicap game

   300 high team scratch series
   300 high team handicap series
   300 high team scratch game
   300 high team handicap game
------------------------------------------
  4300 total individual awards and bonuses
 16660 points total
    40 leftover
------------------------------------------
$21000 total prize fund

--------------------
J.J. "Waterola Kid" Anderson, the bLowling King : Kill the back row

Edited on 8/7/2007 11:05 AM

splendorlex · « **Reply #9 on:** August 07, 2007, 11:29:22 AM »

Thanks for taking the time, JJ. It's going to take some tinkering on my part, but I should be able to work it out. We're on a 30 point system, for one, but the big part is we are going to change up the end of the year a bit. We will have two 8 team divisions, with two 16 week halves. For the last three weeks, we are going to run a tournament. The top 8 teams in a winner's bracket, the bottom 8 in their own bracket. I've got a lot of crap to work out!
--------------------
Mr. Lebowski, this is Bill Salnicker with the Southern Cal Bowling League, and I just got a, an informal report, that a member of your team, uh, Walter Sobchak, drew a firearm during league play. If this is true of course, it contravenes a number of the league's by-laws, and article 27 of the league...

qstick777 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 07, 2007, 11:54:48 AM »

quote:
Can the excel program be changed to 18 teams?
--------------------
Champions Train-Losers Complain!!

I don't know, I didn't write it! Sorry, I don't have it with me at work.

I suggest downloading it and checking it out. It appears that they are working on keeping it updated. If not, Shelley's program works well, you might just have to take a little more time tweaking the 1.0-2.0 payout weighting.

I'm not a math guy. Perhaps Shelley can provide more insight as far as the differences (say 1.75 vs 1.9, etc).

--------------------
Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ

Search Ballreviews entire database here

shelley · « **Reply #11 on:** August 07, 2007, 12:34:11 PM »

quote:
I'm not a math guy. Perhaps Shelley can provide more insight as far as the differences (say 1.75 vs 1.9, etc).

The shape parameter that controls how top-heavy or evenly distributed the prize fund is works like this: For each place i, the fraction they get is roughly 1/i^n where i is the place in the standings and n is the shape.

Higher ns make 1/i^n shrink faster for higher i (place), which is why higher numbers give a more top-heavy payout.

It's not really 1/i^n, it's shifted and scaled to make the sum of all the places 1 (i.e., 100% of the position money). I then multiply those percentages by the amount of position money, round that number down to a multiple of 10, and the rounded off part gets added to either the first place prize money or the bonus for the winner of the roll-off.

SH

splendorlex · « **Reply #12 on:** August 07, 2007, 01:11:17 PM »

Ok, I THINK I've got it, I have two different options:

Tournament 7500 total
Awards 1550 total
Points 12400 total
----------------------
21450 total

Tournament 5000 total
Awards 1550 total
Points 14900 total
----------------------
21450 total

I think I like the first one better, it gives the year end tourney a bit more meaning. Everyone in the tourney would win prize money. We would start with two brackets, the top 8 teams and the bottom 8 teams. Then the losers in the first week of each of those bracket would form their own bracket. For the first option, we would award 1.61 per point (we're on a 30 point system, so there's a LOT of points) and the top team that won the league tourney would get $1000. The lowest team that comes in dead last would get $200. If a team ended w/ the most points and won the tourney, they'd get ~1915 total, about 383 per man. If a team came in dead last in both, they would get ~836 total, about 167 per man. I tried to keep a fairly level distribution, as I don't think the guys in this league want it to be too top heavy money wise. What do you think? This is hard stuff to work out!
--------------------
Mr. Lebowski, this is Bill Salnicker with the Southern Cal Bowling League, and I just got a, an informal report, that a member of your team, uh, Walter Sobchak, drew a firearm during league play. If this is true of course, it contravenes a number of the league's by-laws, and article 27 of the league...

Aloarjr810 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 07, 2007, 08:04:48 PM »

quote:
Can the excel program be changed to 18 teams?
--------------------
Champions Train-Losers Complain!!

Give me a couples of days and I'll add in a 18 team sheet.

I have to finish a spreadsheet I'm working on at the moment.
--------------------
Update- Sheet has been updated 8/8/07
------------------------------
Aloarjr810
----------
Click For My Grip

Edited on 8/8/2007 10:13 PM

janderson · « **Reply #14 on:** August 20, 2007, 05:00:18 PM »

quote:
It's going to take some tinkering on my part, but I should be able to work it out.

No worries - there's always more than one way to work a prize fund.

--------------------
J.J. "Waterola Kid" Anderson, the bLowling King : Kill the back row

Author Topic: Setting up the prize fund and payouts? (Read 20911 times)

splendorlex

Setting up the prize fund and payouts?

shelley

Re: Setting up the prize fund and payouts?

splendorlex

Re: Setting up the prize fund and payouts?

qstick777

Re: Setting up the prize fund and payouts?

shelley

Re: Setting up the prize fund and payouts?

splendorlex

Re: Setting up the prize fund and payouts?

qstick777

Re: Setting up the prize fund and payouts?

pagnouch

Re: Setting up the prize fund and payouts?

janderson

Re: Setting up the prize fund and payouts?

splendorlex

Re: Setting up the prize fund and payouts?

qstick777

Re: Setting up the prize fund and payouts?

shelley

Re: Setting up the prize fund and payouts?

splendorlex

Re: Setting up the prize fund and payouts?

Aloarjr810

Re: Setting up the prize fund and payouts?

janderson

Re: Setting up the prize fund and payouts?