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Author Topic: Shinnecock Hills-Sport Shot ?!?!  (Read 2313 times)

Jeffrevs

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Shinnecock Hills-Sport Shot ?!?!
« on: June 21, 2004, 04:31:19 PM »
I'm surprised this hasn't come up, but again, I may have missed it,...if I did, let me know and I'll delete this post.......

What is all the bickering about regarding Shinnecock Hills last weekend ?!? It's the US Open,...what do you want,....a putt-putt course?!

I see the condition of this course like a tough sport shot for a big/major PBA stop or tournament.....yes ?

Quit your b*tching and play the game! What's the matter, can't handle nice +7 for a tourney ?!

Best players in the world need the best/toughest challenges in the world...end of discussion!

Thoughts? Comments?
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JEFF
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Edited on 6/22/2004 8:12 AM
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cpo_bee

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Re: Shinnecock Hills-Sport Shot ?!?!
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2004, 08:20:34 AM »
I totally agree.  The whining from the top pros was sickening.  It would be like PDW and Walter Ray whining about our US Open or Masters shot.
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Jeffrevs

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Re: Shinnecock Hills-Sport Shot ?!?!
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2004, 08:26:17 AM »
quote:
I totally agree.  The whining from the top pros was sickening.  It would be like PDW and Walter Ray whining about our US Open or Masters shot.


cpo-
Exaclty! ....that's what I was thinking.......

anyone else?!?!  Come on..... a golf / bowling comparison post,...get with it!
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Pinbuster

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Re: Shinnecock Hills-Sport Shot ?!?!
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2004, 08:38:43 AM »
There are some comparisons that are valid.

Often on a sport shot you can throw a good shot, hit your target, correct axis, correct revs, correct speed, but because of the variable breakdown of the oil pattern you can get a bad result.

Some of golf’s US Open was that way. You could play the correct shot but not get good results.

But some of the issues the golf pro’s had were that some shots were impossible to play. You had to purely get lucky. It would be same as in a sport shot if you were shooting spares with a plastic ball. You throw the ball over the correct target, you break your wrist and come straight up the back of the ball, but they have put random dumps on the lane bed and if you hit one the ball will jump into the gutter and you miss the spare.

The pro’s in both sports want tough conditions but they want to be rewarded when they make the proper shot. It is the reason why the PBA went to their own patterns that didn’t break down as randomly.
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rabbit_sla

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Re: Shinnecock Hills-Sport Shot ?!?!
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2004, 08:56:21 AM »
They did the same thing a couple years ago on Beth Paige Black.  Lots of whining and moaning about the course.  My thoughts on it are shut up and play golf!!!   They are supposed to be PROS, not crybabys.  They need to just chalk it up to experience and move on because the pga are going to throw them another course like that in the near future.
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Ishmael

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Re: Shinnecock Hills-Sport Shot ?!?!
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2004, 09:23:12 AM »
I agree with Pinbuster.  The pro's want tough, but fair.  Some of the shots at the open depended more on luck than skill.  I don't like that.  I like to see good shots rewarded and bad shots punished.
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Jeffrevs

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Re: Shinnecock Hills-Sport Shot ?!?!
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2004, 09:26:27 AM »
quote:
I agree with Pinbuster.  The pro's want tough, but fair.  Some of the shots at the open depended more on luck than skill.  I don't like that.  I like to see good shots rewarded and bad shots punished.


I too agree, but,...isn't THAT portion of comparing golf to bowling too difficult ? Because your dealing with a natural substance like grass, that grows ??  Does that make sense?
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BackToBasics

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Re: Shinnecock Hills-Sport Shot ?!?!
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2004, 10:21:20 AM »
There's a difference between tricked up and tough.  Shinnecock was tough but fair on Thursday and Friday (I was there both days).  They were rewarded for good shots and if you were playing well, you could shoot a few under (like Funk, Els and Michelson).  It was borderline on Saturday and outright ridiculous on Sunday.  When you have the average score at plus 9 for the best players in the world that's not fun to watch or play.  That's like a PBA tournament field averaging 180.  Guys aiming for bunkers in order to be able to have a chance at par or balls barely tapped rolling 20 feet past the hole.  That says lot about the condition. It brought luck into the equation and basically boiled down to a putting contest.  

This year's bowling US Open was tough but fair.  High average was 216 with only 66 guys averaging 200.  Not even close to what the USGA had at Shinnecock.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Shinnecock Hills-Sport Shot ?!?!
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2004, 10:58:17 AM »
Everything Anthony Chapman said ditto!

The US open used to be about great ball striking.
Now it is about great putting!

The top players in this years tournament were the best putters.

Though the greens looked like 100 feet by 50 feet in diameter, because of the absurd hardness, these greens actually played like there was a 10 by 10 landing area, and make sure you don't land on the little swale that angles down in that 10 foot area, from 200 yards.

Bottom line, beyond the accuracy capabilities of humans!  It is estimated that the top professionals err by about 1% on their average shot when playing their best.  300 yards = about 30 yards varience, and so on.  

Put Ben Hogan on these conditions and he would have had trouble averaging under 76 the last two days.

To think of players of this incredible caliber averaging 79 for a round is absurd!  These guys short games as a whole are almost 4 shots a round better than pros from 40 years ago!  Why if you brought in the pros from the 50s they would have been lucky to average sub 85.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I doubt that I'd even I'd be able to hit 9 greens in regulation!
PPS this tricking up is why this tournament is no longer no 1 in the world.  It may be number 3.  British, Masters, US open and PGA.
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Ragnar

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Re: Shinnecock Hills-Sport Shot ?!?!
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2004, 11:01:00 AM »
quote:
Bottom line, beyond the accuracy capabilities of humans! It is estimated that the top professionals err by about 1% on their average shot when playing their best. 300 yards = about 30 yards varience, and so on.


um, er 1% of 300 would be 3 yards.  and so on....
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Shinnecock Hills-Sport Shot ?!?!
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2004, 11:35:26 AM »
You are correct on my 1% difference.  I think what I meant to say was 1 degree in face alignment.  This is what I have found is that when tested the straightest long drivers are frequently 1 degree off in face alignment, (and not both directions for a total of 2 degrees but 1 degree total)

However as far as straight long drivers are concerned.

Something I know a bit about.  One can usually only contain a 300 yard drive in about a 30 yard area on softer ground.  The hardness of the ground at Shinnecock made the effective landing area about 10 yards wide and even less on the green.

The amount of varience allowed again was beyond human capabilities.  Therefore the contest became one of stategic miss calculation(miss on the safe side) combined with the best spare game(or did I mean pitching, chipping and putting game).

REgards,

Luckylefty
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It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

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LuckyLefty

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Re: Shinnecock Hills-Sport Shot ?!?!
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2004, 11:41:49 AM »
Just to give an idea.

I was fortunate enough to go and watch the 1971 US open at Merion.

Lee Trevino beat Jack Nicklaus in a playoff.

The course is too short for today's golf and will never be used again for a major.  Conditions were very severe for the times.  Stimpmeter of about 10, hardness of greens very hard, about 1/2 as hard as Shinnecock.

A month later a friend of mine who had been at best about 4th in the county amateur went there and shot 71.  He said EASY course, I should have played in the OPEN!  Right.  He would have shot about 87 on the same course set up for an open.

Note Billy Mayfair a top 20 or so player in 7 of the last 10 US opens shot 89 the last day and made a long putt on the last hole to do so!

Conditions at Shinnecock were so tough it was absurd!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS equal to a sport shot that puts the top pros below 200!
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It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Jeffrevs

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Re: Shinnecock Hills-Sport Shot ?!?!
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2004, 11:43:52 AM »
nice one bones!
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dirtbikebowler

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Re: Shinnecock Hills-Sport Shot ?!?!
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2004, 01:57:52 PM »
I think  the corse was kinda fair on thursday and friday like some of you had said. But on saturday and sunday i didnt think it was, especially when u have a 4 fot putt and u end up having a 25 footputt of the green when u just barly taped ur ball.
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stanski

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Re: Shinnecock Hills-Sport Shot ?!?!
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2004, 11:00:46 PM »
i thought it was very entertaining watching the pros struggle. it was so funny to watch some of those chips and putts roll wayyyy farther back then where they started, especially a few on number 1 and 7. Most entertaining day in pro golf i've ever watched.
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