BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: michael.willis9 on February 19, 2020, 06:47:57 PM
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I posted this on a big Facebook group but I’ll post it here. Should there be a penalty for bowling on the wrong lane?
If it were me, I’d treat it as a foul. Bowl the second shot on your correct lane.
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That’s a great question. I lean towards no but how do we not know the person didn’t bowl on the wrong lane on purpose for a free practice shot?? I think there is not a great answer to this.
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I lean towards no penalty. Cheaters will find their ways to cheat, but they also have to look at themselves in the mirror everyday and decide if they like that person.
We will never be able to "legislate" honesty and integrity.
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In the PBA if you bowl on the wrong lane and strike you have to erase the strike and go to the correct lane. If however you do not strike you finish the frame and it counts. I think this is a great rule that should be used everywhere.
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I lean towards no penalty. Cheaters will find their ways to cheat, but they also have to look at themselves in the mirror everyday and decide if they like that person.
We will never be able to "legislate" honesty and integrity.
Definitely can’t legislate integrity. But we can say “here’s your gutter†when you failed to see your name on the screen 3 feet in front of your face
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I lean towards no penalty. Cheaters will find their ways to cheat, but they also have to look at themselves in the mirror everyday and decide if they like that person.
We will never be able to "legislate" honesty and integrity.
Definitely can’t legislate integrity. But we can say “here’s your gutter” when you failed to see your name on the screen 3 feet in front of your face
Foxworthy: "Here's your sign."
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I posted this on a big Facebook group but I’ll post it here. Should there be a penalty for bowling on the wrong lane?
If it were me, I’d treat it as a foul. Bowl the second shot on your correct lane.
This is covered by USBC rule.
Rule 9 – Bowling on the Wrong Lane
In league or tournament play, a dead ball shall be called and the player or players required to rebowl
on the correct lane when:
a. One player bowls on the wrong lane.
b. One player from each team on the pair of lanes bowls on the wrong lane.
If more than one player on the same team bowls on the wrong lane in turn, all deliveries stand as
bowled. Upon discovery, bowlers shall complete subsequent frames on the correct lanes.
If a player bowls on the wrong lane in a singles tournament where a change of lanes is made, a
tournament may by rule require the delivery to stand and the player to finish the frame on the incorrect
lane when a strike is not recorded. When a strike is made, a dead ball shall be called and the player
required to re-bowl on the correct lane.
In singles match-play competition, where a player normally bowls two frames each time it is the
player’s turn to bowl, the foregoing shall also apply provided the error was discovered before the
opposing player has made a delivery. Otherwise, the score stands as bowled, with all subsequent
frames in the game bowled on the correct lanes.
If there is a protest then
Rule 10 – Provisional Ball
A provisional ball or frame shall be bowled when a protest involving a foul, legal pinfall or a dead ball
made and cannot be resolved by the two team captains or a tournament official.
The following procedures apply when a dispute occurs:
a. For the first ball of any frame, or after the second ball in the 10th frame if the first ball was a strike
1. Foul: The player shall complete the frame and then bowl one provisional ball at a full setup of
pins.
2. Illegal Pinfall: The player shall complete the frame and then bowl one provisional ball at the
same setup which would have remained standing had the disputed pin(s) not have fallen.
3. Dead Ball: The player shall complete the frame and then bowl a complete provisional frame.
b. On a spare attempt or the third ball of the 10th frame:
1. Foul and Illegal Pinfall: No provisional ball is necessary.
2. Dead Ball: A provisional ball shall be bowled at the same setup which was standing when the
disputed ball was bowled.
The score sheet and a record of both scores for the frame in which the provisional delivery was
made shall be kept. The protest must be referred to the league board of directors or tournament
management for a decision. If they are unable to make a decision, the local association or USBC
Headquarters/Rules can be asked for a decision on submission of the facts relating to the protest.
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I posted this on a big Facebook group but I’ll post it here. Should there be a penalty for bowling on the wrong lane?
If it were me, I’d treat it as a foul. Bowl the second shot on your correct lane.
This is covered by USBC rule.
Rule 9 – Bowling on the Wrong Lane
In league or tournament play, a dead ball shall be called and the player or players required to rebowl
on the correct lane when:
a. One player bowls on the wrong lane.
b. One player from each team on the pair of lanes bowls on the wrong lane.
If more than one player on the same team bowls on the wrong lane in turn, all deliveries stand as
bowled. Upon discovery, bowlers shall complete subsequent frames on the correct lanes.
If a player bowls on the wrong lane in a singles tournament where a change of lanes is made, a
tournament may by rule require the delivery to stand and the player to finish the frame on the incorrect
lane when a strike is not recorded. When a strike is made, a dead ball shall be called and the player
required to re-bowl on the correct lane.
In singles match-play competition, where a player normally bowls two frames each time it is the
player’s turn to bowl, the foregoing shall also apply provided the error was discovered before the
opposing player has made a delivery. Otherwise, the score stands as bowled, with all subsequent
frames in the game bowled on the correct lanes.
If there is a protest then
Rule 10 – Provisional Ball
A provisional ball or frame shall be bowled when a protest involving a foul, legal pinfall or a dead ball
made and cannot be resolved by the two team captains or a tournament official.
The following procedures apply when a dispute occurs:
a. For the first ball of any frame, or after the second ball in the 10th frame if the first ball was a strike
1. Foul: The player shall complete the frame and then bowl one provisional ball at a full setup of
pins.
2. Illegal Pinfall: The player shall complete the frame and then bowl one provisional ball at the
same setup which would have remained standing had the disputed pin(s) not have fallen.
3. Dead Ball: The player shall complete the frame and then bowl a complete provisional frame.
b. On a spare attempt or the third ball of the 10th frame:
1. Foul and Illegal Pinfall: No provisional ball is necessary.
2. Dead Ball: A provisional ball shall be bowled at the same setup which was standing when the
disputed ball was bowled.
The score sheet and a record of both scores for the frame in which the provisional delivery was
made shall be kept. The protest must be referred to the league board of directors or tournament
management for a decision. If they are unable to make a decision, the local association or USBC
Headquarters/Rules can be asked for a decision on submission of the facts relating to the protest.
Come on man, we don't need no stinkin' rules! ;D
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This got to be an issue on the megabuck tournaments during the 90s
A couple of guys were really taking advantage. I think the solution was where the PBA rule came from
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I posted this on a big Facebook group but I’ll post it here. Should there be a penalty for bowling on the wrong lane?
If it were me, I’d treat it as a foul. Bowl the second shot on your correct lane.
This is covered by USBC rule.
Rule 9 – Bowling on the Wrong Lane
In league or tournament play, a dead ball shall be called and the player or players required to rebowl
on the correct lane when:
a. One player bowls on the wrong lane.
b. One player from each team on the pair of lanes bowls on the wrong lane.
If more than one player on the same team bowls on the wrong lane in turn, all deliveries stand as
bowled. Upon discovery, bowlers shall complete subsequent frames on the correct lanes.
If a player bowls on the wrong lane in a singles tournament where a change of lanes is made, a
tournament may by rule require the delivery to stand and the player to finish the frame on the incorrect
lane when a strike is not recorded. When a strike is made, a dead ball shall be called and the player
required to re-bowl on the correct lane.
In singles match-play competition, where a player normally bowls two frames each time it is the
player’s turn to bowl, the foregoing shall also apply provided the error was discovered before the
opposing player has made a delivery. Otherwise, the score stands as bowled, with all subsequent
frames in the game bowled on the correct lanes.
If there is a protest then
Rule 10 – Provisional Ball
A provisional ball or frame shall be bowled when a protest involving a foul, legal pinfall or a dead ball
made and cannot be resolved by the two team captains or a tournament official.
The following procedures apply when a dispute occurs:
a. For the first ball of any frame, or after the second ball in the 10th frame if the first ball was a strike
1. Foul: The player shall complete the frame and then bowl one provisional ball at a full setup of
pins.
2. Illegal Pinfall: The player shall complete the frame and then bowl one provisional ball at the
same setup which would have remained standing had the disputed pin(s) not have fallen.
3. Dead Ball: The player shall complete the frame and then bowl a complete provisional frame.
b. On a spare attempt or the third ball of the 10th frame:
1. Foul and Illegal Pinfall: No provisional ball is necessary.
2. Dead Ball: A provisional ball shall be bowled at the same setup which was standing when the
disputed ball was bowled.
The score sheet and a record of both scores for the frame in which the provisional delivery was
made shall be kept. The protest must be referred to the league board of directors or tournament
management for a decision. If they are unable to make a decision, the local association or USBC
Headquarters/Rules can be asked for a decision on submission of the facts relating to the protest.
Thanks. I know there’s a rule. But for league it just states clear the score and bowl the frame on the correct lane. My comment was about, SHOULD there be a penalty for it.
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There are enough rules as it is.
The chance of someone bowling on the wrong lane, as part of some elaborate and intentional cheating attempt, are about zero.
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I lean towards no penalty. Cheaters will find their ways to cheat, but they also have to look at themselves in the mirror everyday and decide if they like that person.
We will never be able to "legislate" honesty and integrity.
Exactly, look at the Houston Astros and New England Patriots.
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I lean towards no penalty. Cheaters will find their ways to cheat, but they also have to look at themselves in the mirror everyday and decide if they like that person.
We will never be able to "legislate" honesty and integrity.
Definitely can’t legislate integrity. But we can say “here’s your gutter†when you failed to see your name on the screen 3 feet in front of your face
Foxworthy: "Here's your sign."
Actually "Here's your sign" was Bill Engvall's, not Jeff Foxworthy.
So...here's your sign
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I lean towards no penalty. Cheaters will find their ways to cheat, but they also have to look at themselves in the mirror everyday and decide if they like that person.
We will never be able to "legislate" honesty and integrity.
This is a good take. I will always carry myself with honesty. If I get beat I'm the first in line to shake someone's hand and say "well done". If someone has to cheat (or some other unethical way) to beat me they're the ones that have to live w/it. At the end of the day I'll always know what I've won/earned and every pin I've scored is for real, and to me, that's what matters.
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It's bowling. If someone is seriously that desperate for a point then that's their problem, not mine.
I have had my butt kicked so many times over the years I have calluses. I've been on both ends of the whooping, and either way it's just bowling...
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I lean towards no penalty. Cheaters will find their ways to cheat, but they also have to look at themselves in the mirror everyday and decide if they like that person.
We will never be able to "legislate" honesty and integrity.
Exactly, look at the Houston Astros and New England Patriots.
Yeah not sure exactly when if you ain't cheating you ain't trying and fake it til you make it, ends justify means, etc, displaced a man is only as good as his word and integrity but it did. True in virtually every aspect of life now and not a fan. Sucks as a parent having to battle that message constantly. /off soapbox
(edit: fine with rule as it currently is at the rec bowling level btw)
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I would vote No it shouldn't be a penalty. Erase the score and go bowl on the proper lane. Yeah there will be times where people get to erase an ugly split but others where you wipe off a strike too. I have done this on accident a few times completely on accident as well as the accidental tossing the first ball in the tenth after the bowler ahead of me sat down instead of throwing his fill ball. Oops. The biggest crime here is not paying attention. If it was a problem that an individual did an amount that indicated it was intentional or involved a ball change that would essentially be a practice frame in the middle of competition than I absolutely agree with the assessment of a foul penalty or something worse. If it's not in the rule book league officers should rule on it and make it a league rule.
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Actually "Here's your sign" was Bill Engvall's, not Jeff Foxworthy.
So...here's your sign
________________________________________________________________
Thanks mrwizerd, I'm getting older and my memory is fading fast. Any time I need to remember something perfectly I will reach out to you.
By the way, wizerd is actually spelled wizard.
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Actually "Here's your sign" was Bill Engvall's, not Jeff Foxworthy.
So...here's your sign
________________________________________________________________
Thanks mrwizerd, I'm getting older and my memory is fading fast. Any time I need to remember something perfectly I will reach out to you.
By the way, wizerd is actually spelled wizard.
No problem...if you need anything else remembered let me know. LOL
Also I know "Wizard" is spelled with an "A" but I wanted to put a slight twist on it.
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I lean towards no penalty. Cheaters will find their ways to cheat, but they also have to look at themselves in the mirror everyday and decide if they like that person.
We will never be able to "legislate" honesty and integrity.
Definitely can’t legislate integrity. But we can say “here’s your gutter†when you failed to see your name on the screen 3 feet in front of your face
I'd love to see how this would pass muster with giving a penalty to a lot of youth bowlers under the age of 10 when they are eager to get on the lanes and accidentally bowl on the wrong lane..
Or someone who is legally blind (read: not completely blind) and can't see the screen above them as there isn't one down on the lanes to know which side they would need to be on.
I lean towards no, but a lot of people take their vision and where they are currently at in the game for granted with this proposal.
BL.
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Until bowling comes up with a somewhat standardized scoring display, it probably will not happen.
As someone involved in creating software, why the hell are there so many different scoring systems anyway? Every bowling alley seems to have their own version.
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I posted this on a big Facebook group but I’ll post it here. Should there be a penalty for bowling on the wrong lane?
If it were me, I’d treat it as a foul. Bowl the second shot on your correct lane.
Nope! Happens all the time for a variety of reasons! I just witnessed it happening to our league Treasurer, who was involved with solving a money issue with the envelopes!! She had held folks up while having to deal with the situation.....and then rushed onto the lanes to bowl, only to bowl on the wrong lane! it happens! NO!
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Until bowling comes up with a somewhat standardized scoring display, it probably will not happen.
As someone involved in creating software, why the hell are there so many different scoring systems anyway? Every bowling alley seems to have their own version.
Different companies, AMF, Qubica, Brunswick, USBowling, etc. with different software and user interfaces. The systems are expensive, hard to upgrade, have different system requirements, etc.
Trying to get the bowling industry to agree on a standard for automated scoring would be impossible. It would be easier to convince bowling centers to go back to overhead projectors and manual scoring!
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Until bowling comes up with a somewhat standardized scoring display, it probably will not happen.
As someone involved in creating software, why the hell are there so many different scoring systems anyway? Every bowling alley seems to have their own version.
Different companies, AMF, Qubica, Brunswick, USBowling, etc. with different software and user interfaces. The systems are expensive, hard to upgrade, have different system requirements, etc.
Trying to get the bowling industry to agree on a standard for automated scoring would be impossible. It would be easier to convince bowling centers to go back to overhead projectors and manual scoring!
My local area has mostly AMF systems and no two are alike.
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I'm not in favor of penalizing this as, in 999 out of 1000 instances, it's an honest mistake and done with no nefarious intent. The only way I'd look into penalizing it is if it could somehow be shown that someone is deliberately doing this. Otherwise, mistakes happen, let it go, and bowl on the correct lane.
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Perhaps the Walk of Atonement from Game of Thrones is in order?
"A sinner comes before you, Cersei of House Lannister Typical House Hack. He has committed the acts of falsehood and fornication bowling on the wrong lane or out of turn. He has confessed his sins, and begged for forgiveness. To demonstrate his repentance, he will cast aside all pride, all artifice, and present himself as the bowling gods made him... to you, the good people of this city. He comes before you with a solemn heart, shorn of secrets, naked before the eyes of gods and men, to make his walk of atonement."
―The High Sparrow to the people of King's Landing.
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Until bowling comes up with a somewhat standardized scoring display, it probably will not happen.
As someone involved in creating software, why the hell are there so many different scoring systems anyway? Every bowling alley seems to have their own version.
Different companies, AMF, Qubica, Brunswick, USBowling, etc. with different software and user interfaces. The systems are expensive, hard to upgrade, have different system requirements, etc.
Trying to get the bowling industry to agree on a standard for automated scoring would be impossible. It would be easier to convince bowling centers to go back to overhead projectors and manual scoring!
Now try having your center rip out the vintage Big B system and install an AMF one...in the middle of the season. No confusion there or anything! :P
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I do it all the time it’s a great way to get a practice shot in if you are not sure how a lane is transitioning. I especially love doing it in match play during a close match, sometimes my opponent gets upset but what the hell its within the rules and I have won many tournaments using this gamesmanship tactic.
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One night, just before my job was outsourced, I bowled on the wrong lane twice in league. Clearly I had other priorities that night. Both times I went with my name instead of the arrow. Never ever once did I even consider anyone would think I was cheating. It's human, we've all done it. And then we get hacks that actually do it to cheat and think it's ok... Unreal. If you can't win honestly, cheating is considered fair. Wow.... Thankfully it's just a small percentage who had bad childhoods. Seriously, it's an honest mistake....
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I do it all the time it’s a great way to get a practice shot in if you are not sure how a lane is transitioning. I especially love doing it in match play during a close match, sometimes my opponent gets upset but what the hell its within the rules and I have won many tournaments using this gamesmanship tactic.
Assuming you are actually doing this.
Since your doing on it purpose "all the time" that would be considered using improper tactics which mean your violating usbc rules.
Rule 17b. Improper Conduct
An individual can also be charged with the following violation(s):
1. Engaging in improper tactics or conduct in connection with the game of bowling including, but not limited to, physical and verbal abuse toward other persons.
Penalty: Membership may be suspended or denied to anyone who is involved in a violation of this rule. Leagues may also remove the individual following the provisions in Rule 115a or Rule 115c.
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Until bowling comes up with a somewhat standardized scoring display, it probably will not happen.
As someone involved in creating software, why the hell are there so many different scoring systems anyway? Every bowling alley seems to have their own version.
Different companies, AMF, Qubica, Brunswick, USBowling, etc. with different software and user interfaces. The systems are expensive, hard to upgrade, have different system requirements, etc.
Trying to get the bowling industry to agree on a standard for automated scoring would be impossible. It would be easier to convince bowling centers to go back to overhead projectors and manual scoring!
Now try having your center rip out the vintage Big B system and install an AMF one...in the middle of the season. No confusion there or anything! :P
Been there, did that.
Sunset Lanes (now Wildfire Lanes), Henderson, NV. in 1999 going into 2000, they ripped out everything Brunswick - the A2 pinsetters, black/white scoring monitors that had the tube monitors.. even the lanes.. brought in the lanes from Arizona Charlie's that had just closed, and put in the magnetic pinsetters and scorekeepers from Mendes. Pro to that: you can respot your own pins to practice spares, etc. Cons to that: you could get a potentially horribly offset pin on a full rack. And then came the learning curve.
At the time, it had the toughest, most competitive leagues in all of Vegas.. now, not so much, especially since they dropped from a 40 lane house to a 24 lane house, and Sunset Station opened up shop.
BL.
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It's bowling. If someone is seriously that desperate for a point then that's their problem, not mine.
I have had my butt kicked so many times over the years I have calluses. I've been on both ends of the whooping, and either way it's just bowling...
its not so much for a point, more so for the sake of time. it happens too much, put a penalty on it and i bet more people will take the second or two it takes to look at the scoreboard. our house also has issues with lanes breaking down, its an issue we're trying to get worked on as well. but pair the lane issues with people bowling on the wrong lane more often than they should and shit adds up. 3 person league taking over 2.5 hours to bowl 3 games
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It's bowling. If someone is seriously that desperate for a point then that's their problem, not mine.
I have had my butt kicked so many times over the years I have calluses. I've been on both ends of the whooping, and either way it's just bowling...
its not so much for a point, more so for the sake of time. it happens too much, put a penalty on it and i bet more people will take the second or two it takes to look at the scoreboard. our house also has issues with lanes breaking down, its an issue we're trying to get worked on as well. but pair the lane issues with people bowling on the wrong lane more often than they should and shit adds up. 3 person league taking over 2.5 hours to bowl 3 games
Do you know bowlers? :)
Add a penalty to that and just watch how much time you save. First will come the excuses, then the apologies, then the argument before someone has to go and get a league officer before trying to figure out how to correct the monitor to show the penalty. I doubt you would actually save any time rather than just correcting the monitor and moving on as we do now.