BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: xrayjay on April 08, 2014, 02:46:07 PM
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Those that roll over their thumb holes or have a tendancy to crack the area around the thumb slug, should they avoid using IT?
I tend to crack/damage thumb holes on spare balls throwing end over end. And at least one strike ball in the past. Likewise, I've also tried without a slug but my thumb gets really tacky really fast - even though i have semi to very dry hands.
I like working out my thumb holes to shape/fit with urethanes slugs. but with the IT systems and alike systems being around for a while now, I'm pretty sure they have imporved on these systems.
I remember guys with broken slug IT that came off during league, or cracked "molly"?? or ball it. Or the IT thumb just comes off the ball..... And there are those with different colored, sized, or angled IT thumbs which I think can get confusing. Or just adds more weight and space to the already heavy packed bag.
Should I go for it? and use a slug for a the poly ball only?
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Some people overcomplicate things. I have exactly two IT thumbs, both the same size, which is a size larger than normal, and I put two pieces of tape in. If for some odd reason my thumb actually swells, which it doesn't and shouldn't, (provided you don't drink excessively during bowling, among other things unconnected to actual bowling that cause body swelling), I'll be able to remove the tape, but I've never had to. The second slug is just a backup in the unlikely event my primary slug fails.
Here is my method of installation for both systems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtI0vkbKD3s
Since making these adjustments, primarily roughing up any surface being glued, I've had literally zero failures out of either system for anyone. The plastic piece on the bottom of the slug used to come already glued to the slug, but it doesn't anymore. I'm glad for that, because that used to be a common failure area. Now that I'm able to sand the surfaces before gluing, they never come apart anymore. The safety molly is also better now, because instead of just gluing it in there as a fail safe, it actually acts as another anchor for the piece on the bottom of the slug.
Even if you don't drill a lot of balls, getting just a couple slugs worked out just right and being able to have the exact same fit in each ball is worth getting the system for. My hand gets tacky occasionally too, but you can adjust hole texture and play with tape to alleviate that. I also put a vent hole near the bottom of the slug in the vent slit on the side to prevent suction if your thumb fits too well.
Drilling different sized or angled thumbs is ridiculous in my opinion. I used to swell and shrink quite a bit, but as soon as I fixed my fit, I have no more issues. The slug should also always be drilled at 0, trying to play with different thumb angles during bowling can only be problematic or aggravate an already existing problem. I roll over my thumbhole when I throw the ball straight at spares, and I have no problems. I'd say it has more to do with how it hits in the pit than rolling over it.
I still suggest putting a regular slug in your spare ball, or at least have a dedicated IT slug that stays in your spare ball if you want the exact same feel. That being said, there's no reason to have more than two slugs drilled exactly the same for either backup, or using a different ball on each lane, or if you have a dedicated one for your spare ball. People who have 4 or 5 different slugs are putting a bandaid on a problem or needlessly complicating things.
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"Drilling different sized or angled thumbs is ridiculous in my opinion"
I do not agree with the first part of this statement. When the weather changes, so will your thumb especially if you bowl all year round. This also hold true if you bowl sweepers or marathons. This is the beauty of this system. If your thumb remains static regardless of weather or amount of games bowled, then you may not need a removable thumb.
As far as pitch changes, this system works great for experimenting. You can alter a thumb slug with a different pitch (within reason) to see if your feel is better or worse without re-drilling the ball. Easy and simple.
Not everyone likes the feel of tape and having multiple IT's with different sizes is the way to go. Instead of putting in an extra piece of tape, you just switch slugs. Where is the bandaid ? Guess you can call the tape a bandaid also. Everyone's body is different and we all try to obtain that perfect feel however we get it.
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My fit is perfect, but my hand swells and shrinks, sometimes during a league night. All I drink is water, so it isn't anything to do with alcohol. Most of the time in the winter, I use my smallest thumb. In the summer, I swell up two sizes. In the spring and fall, I never know what size I will use. I have three sizes that I use based on weather.
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I could see where different sizes comes into play with all the thumb swelling some bowlers face. If I bowl during the summer up in Vegas or Reno, I would need a bigger thumb fit. So, if I decided to go with IT, I would keep a back up with the same size, and one a size bigger.
But, I've seen bowlers when who have a case filled with 5 +/- 1 thumbs. I understand it's easier to experiement with pitches/angles. But once a person finds out what works (pitch/angle), why have 2 or 3 with different pitches/angles? what's the purpose?
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Tape isn't a bandaid if it never comes out . . it's a way of creating a little space between your thumb and the hole to avoid suction on the release, or reducing the friction. I used to buy 500 count rolls of white tape because I'd swell and shrink like crazy CONSTANTLY, and I'd go through one of them every year. I'd have to put in 3-5 pieces when I got to league because everything was a crater, and inside of a game it would all come out. Got down to Albuquerque for nationals when it was there, literally couldn't get my thumb into anything, holes all had to be drilled out, but as soon as we got down to bowl, I couldn't hang onto anything and had ran out of tape. Since I fixed my fit and don't grip anymore, I still have over half the roll of tape left that I bought in 2008 after we got back from Albuquerque, and my wife has used most of that.
If you want to spend $150 on slugs, I'm sure your pro shop won't argue with you, I just think it's completely needless, and that's coming from somebody who used to go through 500 count rolls of tape in one season. I get the idea, I just know the cause and think it's fixable without drilling 5 or 6 different sized slugs.
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So tape is a bandaid if you have to add or remove a piece or two?
You must live in a climate controlled environment, eat the same thing every day and don't travel much and bowl in different climates.
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Who was that in response to . . ? A few pieces of tape isn't a bandaid, agree with that.
I live in Kansas, where it was 35 degrees this morning and will be 75 today, gets to over 100 in the summer and below 10 in the winter, I eat just about anything I can get my hands on, usually have a couple drinks while I bowl, and just traveled to Springfield over the weekend to bowl. League last Tues and Thurs, drove to Springfield Fri, bowled 6 games Sat, 3 games Sun all while completely gorging myself whenever we ate, then league again last night. No tape went in, no tape came out, same slug.
Like I said, before I changed my fit and stopped gripping, I went through 500 pieces a year. The smallest thing in the world would make my thumb go nuts, but when your thumb is artificially enlarged due to bad fit, gripping, clutching, excess friction on release, etc., it's going to enhance or increase the influence of any outside cause for swelling or shrinking. When I went to Albuquerque in 08, I just used slugs back then, when we got there to bowl, I had to have everything actually put on the press and drilled out because my thumb was so huge. Hour later I couldn't hang onto anything and had to reslug everything when I got back home.
Now I have one slug that I've used for several years, went to Reno and back no problems, Baton Rouge, Springfield a couple times, 2 pieces of tape always stay in the hole, just need replacing every couple months.
I'm not saying no one should ever swell or shrink, I'm not saying everyone has a bad fit, I'm not saying everyone grips . . but if you actually have a need or use for 4 or 5 different slugs, you're doing something wrong and it would be in your best interest to check into it. Coming from somebody who used to go through 500 pieces a year, and now only goes through maybe 20, and that's just to replace old worn out tape, it's not like I don't at least understand the problem or issue or haven't been there. If you want to drill 4 or 5 slugs, that's up to you, but I wouldn't recommend it to people like it's the norm, because in every case where I've had requests from people to drill several different sized slugs, it's always because they have fit or gripping issues. Not trying to be a dick or look down on people from my perch, I just feel very strongly that there's a better way, and seeing as how I used to be there several years ago, I'm very familiar with the situation.
So tape is a bandaid if you have to add or remove a piece or two?
You must live in a climate controlled environment, eat the same thing every day and don't travel much and bowl in different climates.
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That was in reply to your comment that "tape isn't a bandaid if it never comes out".
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For the experts on these slugs. Can one drill these interchanbable inserts at different pitches than 0, 0 to the pitch that was originally intended?
I think I saw some comments to that affect above..
Regards,
Luckylefty
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For the experts on these slugs. Can one drill these interchanbable inserts at different pitches than 0, 0 to the pitch that was originally intended?
I think I saw some comments to that affect above..
Regards,
Luckylefty
yeah, I didn't understand that part much. (i try not to get into the dynamics, drillings, etc.. just over load for me)
So the IT slug is zero, and the hole is pitched/angled, correct? Or is the hole 0,0 and the IT slugs can be drilled to the desired pitches/angles?
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Funny, I would think that guys like Norm Duke and Wes Malott would be able to find a competent driller who could give them a proper fit instead of fiddling with all that tape we see them using on TV. ;D ;D
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For the experts on these slugs. Can one drill these interchanbable inserts at different pitches than 0, 0 to the pitch that was originally intended?
I think I saw some comments to that affect above..
Regards,
Luckylefty
yeah, I didn't understand that part much. (i try not to get into the dynamics, drillings, etc.. just over load for me)
So the IT slug is zero, and the hole is pitched/angled, correct? Or is the hole 0,0 and the IT slugs can be drilled to the desired pitches/angles?
I don't do it personally(I'm not skilled enough for it to make a difference.), but I know a regional pro who has a collection of ITs with slight differences in pitch.
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Normally the slug is drilled at zero and the pitch is in the ball. You can alter the pitch when you drill a new IT but you have to be sure the drill will not go thru the sides of the slug. Example, if you ball already has 1/8 reverse and 0 lateral and you want to try 0 reverse and 1/8 lateral, you would drill the slug 1/8 forward and 1/8 lateral. This pitch will offset whats in the ball and the result is what you wanted. Again, this is mostly for experiments.
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Yeah, the smaller your thumb, the easier it is to do, but the "correct" way is to drill the pitch into the ball, and just drill the slug itself at 0, BUT it does give you some flexibility to experiment or try some things with different pitches pretty easily.
Normally the slug is drilled at zero and the pitch is in the ball. You can alter the pitch when you drill a new IT but you have to be sure the drill will not go thru the sides of the slug. Example, if you ball already has 1/8 reverse and 0 lateral and you want to try 0 reverse and 1/8 lateral, you would drill the slug 1/8 forward and 1/8 lateral. This pitch will offset whats in the ball and the result is what you wanted. Again, this is mostly for experiments.
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When you bowl as many games as they do as frequently as they do, stuff is just gonna happen . . but I'm not a big fan of Duke's fit. A lot of the "old school" guys stick with what they know. Duke has forward in his fingers and his span is too long which puts more pressure on his thumb. But if you only bowl league a couple times a week and even a tournament every weekend, no reason for you to need 4 or 5 slugs . . a couple pieces of tape here or there on occasion are all you should need.
Lol and while we're at it, I'm not a fan of the Vise tape that people put on the back of their thumbs! If your span is the right length and you aren't gripping you shouldn't need it to protect your thumb anyway, I can see if people would rather use it than tape in the actual ball, but if you're putting it on your thumb to keep from tearing it up . . tsk tsk . .
Funny, I would think that guys like Norm Duke and Wes Malott would be able to find a competent driller who could give them a proper fit instead of fiddling with all that tape we see them using on TV. ;D ;D
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When you bowl as many games as they do as frequently as they do, stuff is just gonna happen . . but I'm not a big fan of Duke's fit. A lot of the "old school" guys stick with what they know. Duke has forward in his fingers and his span is too long which puts more pressure on his thumb. But if you only bowl league a couple times a week and even a tournament every weekend, no reason for you to need 4 or 5 slugs . . a couple pieces of tape here or there on occasion are all you should need.
Lol and while we're at it, I'm not a fan of the Vise tape that people put on the back of their thumbs! If your span is the right length and you aren't gripping you shouldn't need it to protect your thumb anyway, I can see if people would rather use it than tape in the actual ball, but if you're putting it on your thumb to keep from tearing it up . . tsk tsk . .
Funny, I would think that guys like Norm Duke and Wes Malott would be able to find a competent driller who could give them a proper fit instead of fiddling with all that tape we see them using on TV. ;D ;D
I actually use the Vise Hada tape(Usually Red) on the back of my thumb. Proper fit has nothing to do with the reason I use it though.
It gives a consistent release every time, year round. It can be humid, dry or in between. Hot, cold it doesn't matter, my thumb comes out of the ball exactly the same way every time. A thumb slug(not to mention a slug-less hole) just can't do that. If I want a quicker or slower release, I can change to a different tape with the appropriate friction properties.
Tape is just another tool, it can be used improperly or for the purpose it was designed.
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And that's perfectly reasonable. I use a couple pieces of white on the front to number one prevent suction, and also to have a little texture to help keep me from gripping. Just see way too many people with popped blood vessels near their cuticles, rubbing the back of their thumb knuckle raw that run in to buy the tape so they can keep gripping without tearing their thumb up . . lol pet peeve!
When you bowl as many games as they do as frequently as they do, stuff is just gonna happen . . but I'm not a big fan of Duke's fit. A lot of the "old school" guys stick with what they know. Duke has forward in his fingers and his span is too long which puts more pressure on his thumb. But if you only bowl league a couple times a week and even a tournament every weekend, no reason for you to need 4 or 5 slugs . . a couple pieces of tape here or there on occasion are all you should need.
Lol and while we're at it, I'm not a fan of the Vise tape that people put on the back of their thumbs! If your span is the right length and you aren't gripping you shouldn't need it to protect your thumb anyway, I can see if people would rather use it than tape in the actual ball, but if you're putting it on your thumb to keep from tearing it up . . tsk tsk . .
Funny, I would think that guys like Norm Duke and Wes Malott would be able to find a competent driller who could give them a proper fit instead of fiddling with all that tape we see them using on TV. ;D ;D
I actually use the Vise Hada tape(Usually Red) on the back of my thumb. Proper fit has nothing to do with the reason I use it though.
It gives a consistent release every time, year round. It can be humid, dry or in between. Hot, cold it doesn't matter, my thumb comes out of the ball exactly the same way every time. A thumb slug(not to mention a slug-less hole) just can't do that. If I want a quicker or slower release, I can change to a different tape with the appropriate friction properties.
Tape is just another tool, it can be used improperly or for the purpose it was designed.
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Everyone uses tape, all kinds of tape, it is not a bandaid for a bad fit. Why ? because we are all different and some skin is more sensitive than others. Moist skin, dry skin whatever, we are different. Like I said earlier, we are all striving for the perfect feel and we all have our little trick to accomplish it.
Norm Duke has never been in my shop and I never checked his span to see it its right or wrong, but he has been making a very good living with a bowling ball since he was a teenager so who in their right mind is going to tell him he has a bad fit ?
I drill for folks that their thumb never changes and some do not use tape, while others are always adjusting their thumb based on the climate and number of games bowled. NO, this is not a BAD FIT, just bowlers trying to maintain that perfect feel. Everybody is different.
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And that's perfectly reasonable. I use a couple pieces of white on the front to number one prevent suction, and also to have a little texture to help keep me from gripping. Just see way too many people with popped blood vessels near their cuticles, rubbing the back of their thumb knuckle raw that run in to buy the tape so they can keep gripping without tearing their thumb up . . lol pet peeve!
When you bowl as many games as they do as frequently as they do, stuff is just gonna happen . . but I'm not a big fan of Duke's fit. A lot of the "old school" guys stick with what they know. Duke has forward in his fingers and his span is too long which puts more pressure on his thumb. But if you only bowl league a couple times a week and even a tournament every weekend, no reason for you to need 4 or 5 slugs . . a couple pieces of tape here or there on occasion are all you should need.
Lol and while we're at it, I'm not a fan of the Vise tape that people put on the back of their thumbs! If your span is the right length and you aren't gripping you shouldn't need it to protect your thumb anyway, I can see if people would rather use it than tape in the actual ball, but if you're putting it on your thumb to keep from tearing it up . . tsk tsk . .
Funny, I would think that guys like Norm Duke and Wes Malott would be able to find a competent driller who could give them a proper fit instead of fiddling with all that tape we see them using on TV. ;D ;D
I actually use the Vise Hada tape(Usually Red) on the back of my thumb. Proper fit has nothing to do with the reason I use it though.
It gives a consistent release every time, year round. It can be humid, dry or in between. Hot, cold it doesn't matter, my thumb comes out of the ball exactly the same way every time. A thumb slug(not to mention a slug-less hole) just can't do that. If I want a quicker or slower release, I can change to a different tape with the appropriate friction properties.
Tape is just another tool, it can be used improperly or for the purpose it was designed.
Here is a tip for you if you use tape to prevent suction. This applies to the Vise IT with the Vise Slugs with the rib in the back. Drill a very small hole in the slug near the IT base, suction problem solved.
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Yeap, already do it. Definitely a good suggestion!
And that's perfectly reasonable. I use a couple pieces of white on the front to number one prevent suction, and also to have a little texture to help keep me from gripping. Just see way too many people with popped blood vessels near their cuticles, rubbing the back of their thumb knuckle raw that run in to buy the tape so they can keep gripping without tearing their thumb up . . lol pet peeve!
When you bowl as many games as they do as frequently as they do, stuff is just gonna happen . . but I'm not a big fan of Duke's fit. A lot of the "old school" guys stick with what they know. Duke has forward in his fingers and his span is too long which puts more pressure on his thumb. But if you only bowl league a couple times a week and even a tournament every weekend, no reason for you to need 4 or 5 slugs . . a couple pieces of tape here or there on occasion are all you should need.
Lol and while we're at it, I'm not a fan of the Vise tape that people put on the back of their thumbs! If your span is the right length and you aren't gripping you shouldn't need it to protect your thumb anyway, I can see if people would rather use it than tape in the actual ball, but if you're putting it on your thumb to keep from tearing it up . . tsk tsk . .
Funny, I would think that guys like Norm Duke and Wes Malott would be able to find a competent driller who could give them a proper fit instead of fiddling with all that tape we see them using on TV. ;D ;D
I actually use the Vise Hada tape(Usually Red) on the back of my thumb. Proper fit has nothing to do with the reason I use it though.
It gives a consistent release every time, year round. It can be humid, dry or in between. Hot, cold it doesn't matter, my thumb comes out of the ball exactly the same way every time. A thumb slug(not to mention a slug-less hole) just can't do that. If I want a quicker or slower release, I can change to a different tape with the appropriate friction properties.
Tape is just another tool, it can be used improperly or for the purpose it was designed.
Here is a tip for you if you use tape to prevent suction. This applies to the Vise IT with the Vise Slugs with the rib in the back. Drill a very small hole in the slug near the IT base, suction problem solved.
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Yeah, the smaller your thumb, the easier it is to do, but the "correct" way is to drill the pitch into the ball, and just drill the slug itself at 0, BUT it does give you some flexibility to experiment or try some things with different pitches pretty easily.
Normally the slug is drilled at zero and the pitch is in the ball. You can alter the pitch when you drill a new IT but you have to be sure the drill will not go thru the sides of the slug. Example, if you ball already has 1/8 reverse and 0 lateral and you want to try 0 reverse and 1/8 lateral, you would drill the slug 1/8 forward and 1/8 lateral. This pitch will offset whats in the ball and the result is what you wanted. Again, this is mostly for experiments.
That makes sense...
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The driller where I live drills the holes to zero and the pitch in the slug so people can try out other people's bowling balls. obviously spans are a bit different, but you can usually at least see what a ball/drilling will or won't do for you.
That said, I'm not sure that's the ideal way to do it for the individual, but there are benefits to the group.
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I use carpet tape and white tape up front. And when I bowled a lot, leagues or tourneys, the back of my thumb turned dark and rough from the friction. It wasn't pretty that's for sure, but at least it's not a Roth thumb.
I've used tape of all types. Vise red, grey, & black; roll of white & black; frank'n tape; and electrical tape :) but the carpet tape still gives me that ability to come out of the ball on time. I really like the feel of a very snug thumb, and the CT provides that. It's just rough on my skin.
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*Facepalm* Actually that's a genius marketing ploy . . but one that takes advantage of ignorance . .
The driller where I live drills the holes to zero and the pitch in the slug so people can try out other people's bowling balls. obviously spans are a bit different, but you can usually at least see what a ball/drilling will or won't do for you.
That said, I'm not sure that's the ideal way to do it for the individual, but there are benefits to the group.
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The driller where I live drills the holes to zero and the pitch in the slug so people can try out other people's bowling balls. obviously spans are a bit different, but you can usually at least see what a ball/drilling will or won't do for you.
That said, I'm not sure that's the ideal way to do it for the individual, but there are benefits to the group.
whao....really? I don't nobody touching my ba....equipment
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Joe Cool and Stan,
Thanks for your answers!
I conceptualize that it can be done. My local ball driller puts the slug in a special ball with an anchor(my name in the bottom of the thumb hole to drill his Inner slug). He was not sure if they allowed much variation off of 0 or much drilling off center as maybe it could damage the anchor.
I assume from your answers that damage from drilling pitches off of 0 for the inner slug or off center for that slug.
It seems that doing as stated by Joe Cool is very standard, one must only be careful to not introduce too much pitch that the thumbhole penetrates the side of the slug based on the comments in this thread.
Regards,
Luckylefty
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You can't fit that much pitch in a thumb slug if you don't drill the pitch into the ball. The average adult male's thumb size is probably somewhere between 29/32 and 1" (and most likely some oval angles). So the most you'll fit is maybe 1/4 (if that) either way even using a 1 3/8 size IT. And let's say you drill one ball with the pitch into the ball and the next ball with the pitch into the thumb, that slug won't be flush in both balls.
But anyhow, I've started to go away with the IT system, as i've seen hoards of them breaking lately. Seems to me that the quality has gone down as my first IT slug I drilled for myself (5 years ago roughly) lasted forever, and now they seem to be breaking all over the place (in different parts of the system) for my customers.
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Has the plastic been fracturing or breaking, or just a lot of stuff coming unglued?
You can't fit that much pitch in a thumb slug if you don't drill the pitch into the ball. The average adult male's thumb size is probably somewhere between 29/32 and 1" (and most likely some oval angles). So the most you'll fit is maybe 1/4 (if that) either way even using a 1 3/8 size IT. And let's say you drill one ball with the pitch into the ball and the next ball with the pitch into the thumb, that slug won't be flush in both balls.
But anyhow, I've started to go away with the IT system, as i've seen hoards of them breaking lately. Seems to me that the quality has gone down as my first IT slug I drilled for myself (5 years ago roughly) lasted forever, and now they seem to be breaking all over the place (in different parts of the system) for my customers.
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I've seen a little of everything. Most of the time it's the Ball-IT and Slug IT plastic that breaks. Once in a while I get the Slug-IT jumping over the stopper which makes it just keep spinning. I'm not entirely sure it's not the bowlers somehow making these things happen, because I've only personally had 2 slug it's or ball it's break on me in the 4-6 years i've used the system. But i've recently personally stopped using them anyway and went back to regular slugs.
Has the plastic been fracturing or breaking, or just a lot of stuff coming unglued?
You can't fit that much pitch in a thumb slug if you don't drill the pitch into the ball. The average adult male's thumb size is probably somewhere between 29/32 and 1" (and most likely some oval angles). So the most you'll fit is maybe 1/4 (if that) either way even using a 1 3/8 size IT. And let's say you drill one ball with the pitch into the ball and the next ball with the pitch into the thumb, that slug won't be flush in both balls.
But anyhow, I've started to go away with the IT system, as i've seen hoards of them breaking lately. Seems to me that the quality has gone down as my first IT slug I drilled for myself (5 years ago roughly) lasted forever, and now they seem to be breaking all over the place (in different parts of the system) for my customers.
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Ok. I've never had any issues with my personal ones, but I know that at first several people had the slug-it come unglued from the slug and just spin. The molly kept it from coming off completely, but we had to reglue several. I've got a buddy that I had switch over to the system, and he shattered every single one of his in just a couple months. Never seen that happen with anybody else, but he really rips on the ball. Since we started sanding or roughing up every surface or piece getting glued, we haven't had any problems, but that wouldn't account for pieces breaking . .
I've seen a little of everything. Most of the time it's the Ball-IT and Slug IT plastic that breaks. Once in a while I get the Slug-IT jumping over the stopper which makes it just keep spinning. I'm not entirely sure it's not the bowlers somehow making these things happen, because I've only personally had 2 slug it's or ball it's break on me in the 4-6 years i've used the system. But i've recently personally stopped using them anyway and went back to regular slugs.
Has the plastic been fracturing or breaking, or just a lot of stuff coming unglued?
You can't fit that much pitch in a thumb slug if you don't drill the pitch into the ball. The average adult male's thumb size is probably somewhere between 29/32 and 1" (and most likely some oval angles). So the most you'll fit is maybe 1/4 (if that) either way even using a 1 3/8 size IT. And let's say you drill one ball with the pitch into the ball and the next ball with the pitch into the thumb, that slug won't be flush in both balls.
But anyhow, I've started to go away with the IT system, as i've seen hoards of them breaking lately. Seems to me that the quality has gone down as my first IT slug I drilled for myself (5 years ago roughly) lasted forever, and now they seem to be breaking all over the place (in different parts of the system) for my customers.