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Author Topic: Should we be thinking more about hand positions and less about equipment?  (Read 2159 times)

mumzie

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Like everyone else on this site, I have been struggling with carry. Most house shot conditions will allow almost anyone to hit the pocket, but as we all know, carry is what separates the scorers from the non-scorers.
A lot of people, including myself, have advocated changing balls when the corners just won't go.
However, when I have a good look with a particular ball, where it's breaking at the right place (not too early or too late), and it's hitting the pocket solid, I am reluctant to change.
I have started changing hand positions to slightly change the roll, and seeing more success doing this than by changing equipment.
Shouldn't we try this first - assuming we're hitting the pocket and have an otherwise good look?


Oh - usually what I have to do is back out of the ball, and get more to the side, less behind it, to get the corners to go. Sometimes, it's the other way around, but not usually.
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ksucat

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Re: Should we be thinking more about hand positions and less about equipment?
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2003, 12:50:27 PM »
Subtle hand position changes definitely give you a huge advantage over most other bowlers.  The correct ball roll (axis rotation, tilt, etc) can make several balls in your arsenal work on the same condition.  However, the wrong ball roll for the lane severely limit how many balls will work, if any.  I don't know why, but I seem to get a greater sense of accomplishment when I make a hand position change to score well than if I just grab another ball.  I feel like I earned that strike.  I realize equipment knowledge is a valuable part of today's game, it just doesn't rate as high for me as physical adjustments in terms of respect.  

Keep trying a few different techniques.  Just remember to keep your "A" game strong.  You still want to be able to dominate when you find that condition that suits you.

Shoutout33

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Re: Should we be thinking more about hand positions and less about equipment?
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2003, 01:27:29 PM »
Sawbones,

Just because one carries umpteen balls to a tourney doesn't mean that they'll win either. (please look at my most recent topic starter, I'd love to here what everyone has to say.) I mean, I'm 33 and I'm still old school, but I have some generation X in me as well too. I agree wholeheartedly about hand positions (even though I'm not good at it...), and I still feel that what was taught back in the day will work with today's crazy technology.
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livespive

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Re: Should we be thinking more about hand positions and less about equipment?
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2003, 01:43:01 PM »
Yeah, I'm 30 myself and I am an old schooler.
I come to the alley with 3 balls because that's what fits in the bag.
In shadow bowling I find a ball that works, and most of the time I will
stick with that ball. I'll change lines, or hand positions unless for some reason the lanes go from flood to a drout in the same night.
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T-GOD

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Re: Should we be thinking more about hand positions and less about equipment?
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2003, 01:43:38 PM »
hand positioning/adjustments is by far the most effective way to tweak your ball reactions and carry problems. I would much rather do this then to move and/or switch balls. =:^D

LuckyLefty

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Re: Should we be thinking more about hand positions and less about equipment?
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2003, 01:48:15 PM »
To the original poster Sawbones, oh wait I just checked and it was mumzie.

I thought this was the 350th version of the same post by Sawbones, sorry!

hmmm, hand positions or ball choice, never heard that one proposed here before, ummmmmmm, ummmmmm, jeez I've gotta think I mean after 351 times, ummmm,uuummmmm, ummmmm.

Is the right answer ball changes!?

Let me know.  I'm dying to know the politically correct answer, oh wait, not my final answer, I think it's Wrist Braces, yeah that's it WRIST Braces, FInal ANswer!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS thanks Regis.
PPS just found a new setting on my wrist brace!
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

LuckyLefty

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Re: Should we be thinking more about hand positions and less about equipment?
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2003, 02:10:48 PM »
I'm not versatile, I just want to grab the right ball!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS want to throw the same every ball!
PPS how many balls do I need now?
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

star

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Re: Should we be thinking more about hand positions and less about equipment?
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2003, 06:30:50 AM »
mumzie, I think youve come to the correct conclusion.
I love being able to change hand positions on the ball. Its turned me from a bodger to someone who scores more consitantly.
I agree with you on the carry isssue also. Leaving 10 pin after 10 pin can be stopped by just giving the ball a little more side roll. However when the lanes start to dry up a bit coming more up the back of the ball keeps the same shape and still has the ability to kick out those 10's. I also find Im a bit more accurate when I get the chance to shoot like that.
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Doc Hollywood

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Re: Should we be thinking more about hand positions and less about equipment?
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2003, 08:26:03 AM »
Mumzie - I think that in order to decide whether you should change hand positions or switch balls depends on many thing.  One of which is, Can you repeat the change effectively?  If so the hand change may be the best bet.  If not then a ball change may be in order.

I think overall looking at how the ball is reacting on the lane and how it stands up is the best way to decide if a hand change would be the best bet.  Seeing how the axis tilt and rotation are changing on the lane as the ball is going down the lane would give you the best read.  You stated that often times you need to come around the side more and this is an indication that the ball is losing the tilt and rotation early and using up enrgy early and this usually result in flat tens.  When you see the ball come into the pocket and deflect to the right for righties and left for lefties instead of driving the pocket. it is time for for the hand position change and/or a ball change that holds axis tilt and rotation longer.  A change to line that has more head oil would work as well.

For those that are reading that do not understand this concept.  During a practice time put a piece of tape on the PAP and throw an aggressive ball down the lane with near zero axis roation and see how long it stays there.  Then throw the ball with about 45 degrees rotation and see how long it stays before migrating toward zero.  Then try to throw at close to 90 degrees and see how long it hold rotation.  If you do this on a dry condition or with strong backends you will see what I am talking about.  You also need to see what the balls reaction is once it hits the pins.  Does it drive or does it deflect.  If youbegin to see this reaction and then watch bowlers who leave a lot of 10's often times you will see the ball deflect and hit the 9 pin in the face instead of to the left of it.  Opposite for lefties, 8 pin.

This a very good exercise when getting a new ball.  Experiment to see what the capabilities of the ball are when throwing different axis rotations and see how long the ball takes to migrate.

I hope this explains it well.
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atomized

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Re: Should we be thinking more about hand positions and less about equipment?
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2003, 01:24:09 PM »
Mumzie as Doc and Bones sorta said, you may need to experiment to find which works. Maybe this practice can help.
The idea is to throw at first arrow until you strike, then move to the next arrow until you strike and so on until you get to 4th or 5th arrow then come back down to one again. You have to be within 1 board of the arrow you are aiming at. If you use 2 balls you have to strike with, it will give you a good idea how one ball reacts to the other. Anyway you sure get to use lots of different hand positions. Good luck.

atomized

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Re: Should we be thinking more about hand positions and less about equipment?
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2003, 03:15:58 PM »
Bones I agree with you but for different reasons. If I tuck my pinky finger on med to dry lanes or with lanes that have screaming backends, I can get 5 or 6 boards move. On the other hand on heavy oil to med-hvy or moderate backends maybe 2 or 3 boards.
Just like on any given Sunday it's forth and one, do you always run off takle, QB sneak or pass. It depends on the factors around you. Most times a little hand change will do you, but if the lanes seem to be changing quickly, is it 8th frame and a close match, what balls did you bring. Sometimes changing postions work, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes changing balls work sometimes it doesn't. It is not so cut and dry anymore. And if all else fails, you can always fling it.

LuckyLefty

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Re: Should we be thinking more about hand positions and less about equipment?
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2003, 03:45:14 PM »
I think the posts about bowlers throwing 300 for one game and low 600s for three shows a lot of the confusion regarding, ball changes, hand position,
and quickly moving oil patterns.

Sawbones post on title something like "How did we screw up a good thing".

When it's right todays condition is really easy to score well on.  But when it's tough it's murder.

In the Old days it just seemed like it was mostly easy to hit the pocket, just carry was a problem.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I think even spares are much harder on many different conditions today.


It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Brickguy221

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Re: Should we be thinking more about hand positions and less about equipment?
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2003, 04:21:04 PM »
I am not versatile with hand positions. Probably because of my somewhat forced armswing and not a loose-natural swing. I have one release and that is it, so I am forced to change balls, unless moving further-closer to the foul line works.
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