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Author Topic: pin down or pin up for long, heavy oil?  (Read 12013 times)

Xcessive_Evil

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pin down or pin up for long, heavy oil?
« on: December 09, 2009, 02:07:52 AM »
Just seeing what people prefer.  I like using pin-down on heavy oil since I typically play a tighter line on these conditions and would much rather have a arcy motion into the pocket and gives me a bit more room for error.

I like using pin-up on broken down conditions or shorter conditions since it allows me to play outside since pin-ups respond later and more aggressive at the breakpoint.

Anyone else the same way?
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Xcessive_Evil

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Re: pin down or pin up for long, heavy oil?
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2009, 12:58:45 PM »
I tried the RICO thing, and it really didn't work for me-but then again, this was about 3 years ago.  In my leagues this year, there has definitely been a bit longer and heavier, so I've needed to make surface adjustments.
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J_w73

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Re: pin down or pin up for long, heavy oil?
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2009, 01:34:38 PM »
for me pin down and close to leverage pin balls don''t seem to move for me IN heavy or long oil.. This summer I had some success using a 5 1/2 pin to pap Greem Gargoyle with an extremely high pin on the shark.. really close to the VAL.. the ball reacts super fast to friction.. when it hits the end of the pattern it snapped to the pocket..
I had some pretty good success as long as I kept the speed consistent..
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180



Edited on 12/9/2009 4:18 PM
350 RPM, 17 MPH

icewall

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Re: pin down or pin up for long, heavy oil?
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2009, 03:15:08 PM »
quote:
I tried the RICO thing, and it really didn't work for me-but then again, this was about 3 years ago.  In my leagues this year, there has definitely been a bit longer and heavier, so I've needed to make surface adjustments.
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yeah the rico layout isnt really a layout in my opinion because the reaction you get is completely dependent on your PAP. for me its more then 5 1/2" from my pap but the hole down helps to create flare. oddly enough i can get a pretty strong reaction from that "layout".

but i bet the rico works better for people with a pap that would put the pin in a stronger flaring position... maybe 4 1/2". probably a really mean drilling then!
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insidedrive

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Re: pin down or pin up for long, heavy oil?
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2009, 03:57:49 PM »
cmurder nailed it on this one.

Pin down and pin up mean nothing, it all comes down to your PAP and how far you put the pin from the pap with relation to the angles you create on the ball.

For example, I am a very high track tweener, I'm 5 1/2 over by 1 up on my PAP.  If I ever drill a ball with the pin below the fingers it is greatly increasing my angle to val thus decreasing my motion downlane.  So much in fact that it defeats the original purpose of a "pin under" drill.  These types of drillings for me go very very long with little to no backend.  IE a burnt second shift for house shot ball.

Pros and others talk about pin under and over because they have similar PAPs 4 inches or less over and 1/2 inch or more down.  This is a very different track from what someone like me would throw and therefore their idea of pin over/under is greatly different from what matches up for my game.

A low track bowler's equivalent of a pin down drill for me would be pin directly above the fingers.  

A low track bowler's equivalent of a pin up drill for me would be the pin 1.5+ inches above the fingers.

Always always ALWAYS measure you drillings based on your PAP or even your Track.  

My best ball for Shark is a Rogue Cell with the pin 2 inches above the ring finger and 1/4 inch right.  That is quite the opposite of what others would call a proper "pin down" long oil drill.  But thats because it's what works for my game.

Hope this helps.

J_w73

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Re: pin down or pin up for long, heavy oil?
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2009, 04:17:25 PM »
quote:
I don''t really want to start an argument here or high jack the thread,but the idea of pin up or down IMO is a bunch of hype, the distance from your pap is what really matters,especially using Mo''s dual angle techinique,then the drill and breakpoint angles. The closer the pin to your pap,the early it rolls and the farther the pin from your pap the longer it goes, plain and simple!!!
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yes.. pin to pap is the first and primary influence.. but a 5 1/2 pin to pap ball with the pin in center grip vs a 5 1/2 pin to pap with the pin close to the VAL is a night and day reaction... ball without holes and just layed out and thrown on throwbot.. no difference.. but once you put holes in the ball it does make a difference.
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180



Edited on 12/9/2009 5:19 PM
350 RPM, 17 MPH

Jay

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Re: pin down or pin up for long, heavy oil?
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2009, 05:32:33 PM »
It's kind of hard for me to tell unless I drill two of the same ball, but my PAP is about 4 5/8 over and I think pin up layouts tend to be smoother or less continuous than pin down.  At the same time, I think I had a ball that thumped around the breakpoint with the pin under my middle finger.  Pins to the right of my ring(3 1/2" or less from PAP), seem to be hit or miss.  The Black Widow I had drilled 3 3/8" was the biggest backend ball I'd ever thrown.
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Xcessive_Evil

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Re: pin down or pin up for long, heavy oil?
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2009, 08:56:54 AM »
Well, I showed up at the lanes a bit early last night to see if my thinking was wrong the entire time-and...it was.  The lane operator was nice enough to give me a pair of lanes. One had a 42' shot, the other 38'.  I used a 63* 4.5 28* Kinetic Energy, and a 65* 4" 70* Black Widow Sting, both at 2000.

On the 42', I got lined up pretty quick with the Kinetic Energy, and as soon it got to the breakpoint, it revved up fast and figuretively jumped into the pocket.  The Sting labored a bit, as if it was unsure if it wanted to move or not.

The 38' was a complete reversal. When the Sting hit the bp, it wasn't all jumpy and made its way to the pocket smoothly.  The Kinetic Energy was alot of over/under and just flat out erratic.  

So, thanks to all that provided their opinions.  It helped quite a bit.
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