BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Mongo on March 17, 2014, 08:48:49 PM
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I know I'm possibly opening a big LH/RH whine-a-thon, but I'm curious.
Do any of you make small (old school) moves to help get the corners out?
2 out of the last 3 sets I've had small transitions where I'm moving 1 and 1 or even just 1 with my feet to help get the corners out. I've gotten in trouble with ball changes a couple of times when just a small move did the trick.
Anybody else still flashing back to the 80's like I am?
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In practice or warmups I try a few different balls if leaving corners. In real scoring I adjust speed or lines as needed.
As a right hander this season i spend more time fighting 7s 8s and 9s and 10s are an after thought.
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I know I'm possibly opening a big LH/RH whine-a-thon, but I'm curious.
Do any of you make small (old school) moves to help get the corners out?
2 out of the last 3 sets I've had small transitions where I'm moving 1 and 1 or even just 1 with my feet to help get the corners out. I've gotten in trouble with ball changes a couple of times when just a small move did the trick.
Anybody else still flashing back to the 80's like I am?
I still go by 7-up/10 back, which is what I was taught in the late 80s/early 90s. It always seemed to be about entry angle to me, and that adjustment always worked. I don't move left or right until the ball checks up early or I come up too light. Then I'll make the adjustments left or right. But for the corner pins? I'm lined up, but just don't have the angle to carry them, so that 1/2" up for the 7 pin or back for the 10 pin tend to do it for me.
YMMV.
BL.
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If you are right handed and you move 1 to carry you are now behind for the next move, unless your move is off a strike.
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Somebody once told me don't chase carry. The whole moving up and back on the approach is a placebo, it doesn't work. Your brain will automatically adjust and end you up at the same place you always do unless you move a foot or more. There are smaller adjustments you can make to improve your carry. Chances are that if you're leaving flat 10s or 7s you have bigger problems than just a small move, but if you're ringing them, I'd just wait a few frames for the transition to catch up. A ringing corner pin just means the ball is coming in a tad late, but that you're getting good reaction, which means you shouldn't ring 5 or 6 in a row or anything. Flat corner leaves on the other hand means you're either playing the wrong line, using the wrong ball, or it's just transitioning poorly, maybe a combination of all 3.
The move I usually make is to move inside a board or two and get softer to try to create a better angle or transition. Again, there are small adjustments you can make, but I don't generally try to chase carry TOO much. If I'm playing the lanes right and the ball is transitioning well, I'd take 9/ over 6-3 any day of the week.
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I'm with Gizmo on this subject.
If you're leaving flat corner pins you're playing the wrong line, using the wrong ball, or not accounting for the transition. If you're in the pocket with solid single pin leaves, don't try to chase carry.
A couple weeks ago I started working on just softening my ball speed just a little to increase my angle and my scores have skyrocketed. I was in the 15.8-16.2 range and I worked myself into the 15.3-15.7 range and have average 251 my last 3 league sets going 278/793 - 300/694 - 289/777. Softening my speed has increased my entry angle so much that I feel like I'm carrying the world when I, along with pretty much everyone have had so much trouble carrying the corners at my center. We don't have a single 800 this season with quite a few good scratch bowlers and some former pba guys.
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try moving your eyes, not your feet
look further down the lane for more skid, look closer to the foul line for earlier roll
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There's no one recipe for me - it depends on the lanes, the conditions and the ball I'm throwing - but I don't come in weak or have deflection problems very often - 9 times out of 10 I'm just hitting the pocket wrong.
My movement is usually target first if I adjust for carry...changing the breakpoint.
I may move up or back (contrary to Gizmo, I know without any doubt that this is not placebo...I pay attention to where my feet end up and if I move back, I finish pretty much the same distance back on the foul line), and I may in extreme cases move to a different ball.
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try moving your eyes, not your feet
look further down the lane for more skid, look closer to the foul line for earlier roll
In doing this, you may miss your break point, causing the ball to come in late behind the head pin, leaving you that 10 pin, putting you in the position you are already in. Or worse, coming in a bit too light, leaving you 2-8-10 or 2-4-8-10.
Moving your eyes closer will get you into an earlier roll, yes, but you may burn up energy early, causing your ball to roll out, and lose its carry potential.
For me, it is all about entry angle to the pocket, not chasing the transition. That 7 up/10 back handles that entry angle issue. If I did nothing and waited a few frames, that few frames is the difference between a 200 game and a 250 game.
Adjustments for transition should be left or right. Entry angle would be forward or backward. Again, YMMV.
BL.
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Most issues with carry in today's environment is how the bowling ball is effected by the conditioner and lane surface...what this means is how the bowling ball responds or interacts with the conditioner or if it slows down properly coming out of it.
The way the game was played previously was more with a hit at the release thus allowing the ball to 'skid' easier to create more angle down lane due to the way urethane responds to a thinner oil...today hitting the ball at the release or accelerating thru the bottom causes the ball to respond improperly to the down lane friction.
Carry, assuming the proper ball is in play, generally is dictated by less deviation at the release or hit and proper amount of speed...too much hit or too much speed decreases the probability of the ball slowing down correctly allowing it to create the proper angle for carry.
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'Last PBA telecast I watched, Randy P said on a weak 10 to move right.....this was for a fairly slow revving stroker.....
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If somebody is paying more attention to where their feet end up than how they're throwing the shot, that doesn't sound like a recipe for success. And I did qualify it, you can't just move a couple inches and number one think that a couple inches is going to turn a 10 pin into a strike, or number two think you're so accurate that you'll end up exactly that distance back from the foul line. If you're that accurate that a couple inches back matters, you wouldn't be leaving 10s in the first place. If you move a foot, yeah there's a pretty good chance you'll end up in the neighborhood of a foot back from where you normally end up.
Sometimes it's just changing angles. If there's more dry outside, move your breakpoint a board or two right and catch that dry earlier. If there's not, move your breakpoint a board in. Don't always have to make moves with your feet, sometimes you just have to play with the shape a little.
There's no one recipe for me - it depends on the lanes, the conditions and the ball I'm throwing - but I don't come in weak or have deflection problems very often - 9 times out of 10 I'm just hitting the pocket wrong.
My movement is usually target first if I adjust for carry...changing the breakpoint.
I may move up or back (contrary to Gizmo, I know without any doubt that this is not placebo...I pay attention to where my feet end up and if I move back, I finish pretty much the same distance back on the foul line), and I may in extreme cases move to a different ball.
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If somebody is paying more attention to where their feet end up than how they're throwing the shot, that doesn't sound like a recipe for success. And I did qualify it, you can't just move a couple inches and number one think that a couple inches is going to turn a 10 pin into a strike, or number two think you're so accurate that you'll end up exactly that distance back from the foul line. If you're that accurate that a couple inches back matters, you wouldn't be leaving 10s in the first place. If you move a foot, yeah there's a pretty good chance you'll end up in the neighborhood of a foot back from where you normally end up.
Sometimes it's just changing angles. If there's more dry outside, move your breakpoint a board or two right and catch that dry earlier. If there's not, move your breakpoint a board in. Don't always have to make moves with your feet, sometimes you just have to play with the shape a little.
Lol, as if checking where my foot stopped after the ball has hit the rack is somehow detrimental to my shot? Get over yourself.
It's one of several tools in my bag, and I can and do change my start position if I'm having pin leaves - but not all of us conform to your declarations or behave consistently just because it's pat bowling lore to say "you'll just end up compensating".
What I do to change my carry, like what many pros do, is subjective and based on hours of practice to prove that it consistently DOES make a difference, else I wouldn't employ it. It's why I hate rote prescriptions for carry or movements. We're not robots, and we can all perform the same tasks with differing results no matter what Slowinsky or Baker say about "correct".
And, you're absolutely wrong about a couple of inches making a difference....5 or 6 inches can change where that ball contacts and leaves the oil just enough to address the 3 pin differently with the same shot and breakpoint - that's PRECISELY what changes 10 pin leaves - a very small change in direction, angle or speed will trip the 6 correctly. In fact, it's the only thing that changes the 10 pin. Where you hit the 3 is what happens to the 10. Period.
Don't contradict me with empirical nonsense about a game you've never seen in person, or tell me what I know to be true is not. It's arrogant and presumptuous at best, and insulting at worst.
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If somebody is paying more attention to where their feet end up than how they're throwing the shot, that doesn't sound like a recipe for success. And I did qualify it, you can't just move a couple inches and number one think that a couple inches is going to turn a 10 pin into a strike, or number two think you're so accurate that you'll end up exactly that distance back from the foul line. If you're that accurate that a couple inches back matters, you wouldn't be leaving 10s in the first place. If you move a foot, yeah there's a pretty good chance you'll end up in the neighborhood of a foot back from where you normally end up.
Sometimes it's just changing angles. If there's more dry outside, move your breakpoint a board or two right and catch that dry earlier. If there's not, move your breakpoint a board in. Don't always have to make moves with your feet, sometimes you just have to play with the shape a little.
Lol, as if checking where my foot stopped after the ball has hit the rack is somehow detrimental to my shot? Get over yourself.
It's one of several tools in my bag, and I can and do change my start position if I'm having pin leaves - but not all of us conform to your declarations or behave consistently just because it's pat bowling lore to say "you'll just end up compensating".
What I do to change my carry, like what many pros do, is subjective and based on hours of practice to prove that it consistently DOES make a difference, else I wouldn't employ it. It's why I hate rote prescriptions for carry or movements. We're not robots, and we can all perform the same tasks with differing results no matter what Slowinsky or Baker say about "correct".
And, you're absolutely wrong about a couple of inches making a difference....5 or 6 inches can change where that ball contacts and leaves the oil just enough to address the 3 pin differently with the same shot and breakpoint - that's PRECISELY what changes 10 pin leaves - a very small change in direction, angle or speed will trip the 6 correctly. In fact, it's the only thing that changes the 10 pin. Where you hit the 3 is what happens to the 10. Period.
Don't contradict me with empirical nonsense about a game you've never seen in person, or tell me what I know to be true is not. It's arrogant and presumptuous at best, and insulting at worst.
Bold for emphasis. Very well said.
BL.
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6 inches on a 60 foot lane equates to a change of 0.0084%, or less than 1%. You know how small your standard deviations on rev rate, speed, axis tilt, and angle of rotation would have to be to take advantage of that consistently? You might as well be saying, "Well my rev rate is 400, but if it's not hooking soon enough, I just change it to 404." Theoretically it sounds good, practically it doesn't.
However, I'm definitely not saying it doesn't work for you. If you say it does, I believe you. I'm just not sure it works for you in the way that you think it does. You know how many times somebody has brought a ball in and said it sucked and wanted the surface changed when I knew better? Take it back, flip the spinner on and off a few times, then take it back out after doing absolutely nothing to it. All the sudden it's a brand new ball and they go nuts with it.
I've also found out from many hours of coaching that when you try to get someone to do something they've never done before, they either over-focus on that one thing, or they don't pay enough attention to it and their muscle memory compensates and nothing changes. Your point about hating rote prescriptions is spot on though. Everyone is different, everyone executes concepts differently to end up at the same result. You get the concept of what needs to happen across, and then find out how their game would execute that the best.
I will still say that there are quicker, easier ways that work better with what somebody already does than trying to adjust to moving forwards or backwards on the approach, especially on the fly without having all those hours to practice it. So once again, way to start an argument where one didn't exist.
If somebody is paying more attention to where their feet end up than how they're throwing the shot, that doesn't sound like a recipe for success. And I did qualify it, you can't just move a couple inches and number one think that a couple inches is going to turn a 10 pin into a strike, or number two think you're so accurate that you'll end up exactly that distance back from the foul line. If you're that accurate that a couple inches back matters, you wouldn't be leaving 10s in the first place. If you move a foot, yeah there's a pretty good chance you'll end up in the neighborhood of a foot back from where you normally end up.
Sometimes it's just changing angles. If there's more dry outside, move your breakpoint a board or two right and catch that dry earlier. If there's not, move your breakpoint a board in. Don't always have to make moves with your feet, sometimes you just have to play with the shape a little.
Lol, as if checking where my foot stopped after the ball has hit the rack is somehow detrimental to my shot? Get over yourself.
It's one of several tools in my bag, and I can and do change my start position if I'm having pin leaves - but not all of us conform to your declarations or behave consistently just because it's pat bowling lore to say "you'll just end up compensating".
What I do to change my carry, like what many pros do, is subjective and based on hours of practice to prove that it consistently DOES make a difference, else I wouldn't employ it. It's why I hate rote prescriptions for carry or movements. We're not robots, and we can all perform the same tasks with differing results no matter what Slowinsky or Baker say about "correct".
And, you're absolutely wrong about a couple of inches making a difference....5 or 6 inches can change where that ball contacts and leaves the oil just enough to address the 3 pin differently with the same shot and breakpoint - that's PRECISELY what changes 10 pin leaves - a very small change in direction, angle or speed will trip the 6 correctly. In fact, it's the only thing that changes the 10 pin. Where you hit the 3 is what happens to the 10. Period.
Don't contradict me with empirical nonsense about a game you've never seen in person, or tell me what I know to be true is not. It's arrogant and presumptuous at best, and insulting at worst.
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What about the 1/2" moves up and back?
.84%/12
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I tend to favor ball speed/hand change over feet change.
Works better when Im leaving 10 pins, at least for me.
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I'll also point out that if you're lined up correctly and making good shots, you shouldn't be leaving 10 pins. If you do, that's an error. You don't make adjustments off errors. If it's transition, the math says that small of an adjustment won't work. Also, if the pattern is 38 feet long, the ball isn't going to start magically hooking at 37 feet 6 inches just because you moved back 6 inches. The ball stays in the oil the same length unless you're lofting over a portion of it early. Even then, factoring in CoF for the ball staying in the oil 6 inches longer doesn't translate to the ball hooking 6 inches earlier.
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I'll also point out that if you're lined up correctly and making good shots, you shouldn't be leaving 10 pins. If you do, that's an error. You don't make adjustments off errors. If it's transition, the math says that small of an adjustment won't work. Also, if the pattern is 38 feet long, the ball isn't going to start magically hooking at 37 feet 6 inches just because you moved back 6 inches. The ball stays in the oil the same length unless you're lofting over a portion of it early. Even then, factoring in CoF for the ball staying in the oil 6 inches longer doesn't translate to the ball hooking 6 inches earlier.
I don't want to get into a big disagreement here, but your 6 inches analogy isn't taking everything into account. If you assume that you will stop six inches further back on the approach and are hitting the same spot at the arrow (at an angle ... not straight in front of you) you will change the launch angle. You will actually keep your ball further inside down lane. If you target down the lane and hit the same spot, then your assumption is probably more valid, though the ball will have "flared" a small amount more by the time it hits the end of the pattern. I tend to believe that small changes can be the difference between carry and no carry. There are so many other factors here that are bowler specific. I tend to finish up at the same spot regardless of where I start from (take longer or shorter strides), and thus my delivery will change. Sometimes moving up for me causes me to put the ball down sooner, and I get a slightly earlier ball reaction. Not because my ball is on the lane longer, but because my delivery changes.
Overall I think it isn't like you move throwbot up or down the lane 6 inches and look at the results. I think moving around changes more than just the amount of time the ball is in the oil.
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If I can't strike with my big toe on the big dot, it's everyone and everything's fault but mine.
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If I can't strike with my big toe on the big dot, it's everyone and everything's fault but mine.
That would mean that your little toe should be below the little dot next to the big dot. if not, it's my fault.?
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Listen, I bowled with Fred Flintstone, I know what works for me.
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I tend to favor ball speed/hand change over feet change.
Works better when Im leaving 10 pins, at least for me.
The only problem I have seen with changing these (which would be one of the last things I would change) would be that the adjustment wouldn't be consistent. You can't safely say that you could throw the ball harder, at the same speed each and every time. One shot may be faster than the next, never giving the ball time to start up or come out of the pattern where it needs to be to carry. You can at least change your position on the approach more consistently than keeping the same ball speed.
Same goes for hand position. Now, what I am meaning about hand position here is more relative to the wrist and not to the hand. I wouldn't change from having my thumb at 11 or 11:30 to 10 o'clock to carry a corner pin, as that would kill your overall hook on the ball. If I'm doing that, I may as well move right, and square up.
That also applies to the wrist as well. breaking the wrist kills the hook as well, and cuffing it more may give you a bit more end over end, but may also cause the ball to check up early, leaving you with a high hit.
BL.
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Yeah I know but when I had the whole rundown typed earlier it was too long for anyone to read lol. The launch angle change was incredibly small, and there are a ridiculous amount of variables, but that's kind of my point.
I'll also point out that if you're lined up correctly and making good shots, you shouldn't be leaving 10 pins. If you do, that's an error. You don't make adjustments off errors. If it's transition, the math says that small of an adjustment won't work. Also, if the pattern is 38 feet long, the ball isn't going to start magically hooking at 37 feet 6 inches just because you moved back 6 inches. The ball stays in the oil the same length unless you're lofting over a portion of it early. Even then, factoring in CoF for the ball staying in the oil 6 inches longer doesn't translate to the ball hooking 6 inches earlier.
I don't want to get into a big disagreement here, but your 6 inches analogy isn't taking everything into account. If you assume that you will stop six inches further back on the approach and are hitting the same spot at the arrow (at an angle ... not straight in front of you) you will change the launch angle. You will actually keep your ball further inside down lane. If you target down the lane and hit the same spot, then your assumption is probably more valid, though the ball will have "flared" a small amount more by the time it hits the end of the pattern. I tend to believe that small changes can be the difference between carry and no carry. There are so many other factors here that are bowler specific. I tend to finish up at the same spot regardless of where I start from (take longer or shorter strides), and thus my delivery will change. Sometimes moving up for me causes me to put the ball down sooner, and I get a slightly earlier ball reaction. Not because my ball is on the lane longer, but because my delivery changes.
Overall I think it isn't like you move throwbot up or down the lane 6 inches and look at the results. I think moving around changes more than just the amount of time the ball is in the oil.
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I have been around a lot of good/great bowlers in my life, and have never met one that made up/back adjustments on the approach unless it was to get around the ball return.
Could anyone provide an example of someone who is above league bowler status that actually use these adjustments this century?
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Most adjustments such as minimal lateral moves or distance are merely nothing more than a mindset that it's gonna change the roll, thus creating confidence in the swing which makes the bowler think it worked...it's generally something that can not be proven but in my belief, if the bowler thinks it works it's viable...
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too much hit or too much speed decreases the probability of the ball slowing down correctly allowing it to create the proper angle for carry.
I'm from the "old school" days and learning not to hit the ball at the bottom took some time to get used to. Huge difference in ball motion when done right.
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Yes you got to see that one session...it can be quite noticeable
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I have been around a lot of good/great bowlers in my life, and have never met one that made up/back adjustments on the approach unless it was to get around the ball return.
Could anyone provide an example of someone who is above league bowler status that actually use these adjustments this century?
I've bowled with some good guys who do it, regional players (I've never bowled with pros nor asked them). It's not as common as it once was, and like me it's usually not the first choice but I've seen very good tourney guys move (generally up).
I am not wanting to get in a pissing match, but honestly in a tournament setting with a lot of pros, you'd have to be extremely motivated to pay attention to where everyone starts and when they adjust and compare. Have you actually done that? Who announces "Hey everyone I'm leaving 10's so here I am moving 6" back!"??
When I make a forward/backward move (which isn't often), I just do it and no one around me is seeing it. They'll notice other overt changes, but how the hell could anyone keep up with the precise start spot of a house full of A-grade bowlers throughout a whole event?
Would it validate me if I said "Norm Duke does it", nor change your mind about its effectiveness? Likely not, and if not a single pro ever changed starting positions, I'd still know from doing it that I've had good luck with it on the rare occasions it's what changed the pocket for the better.
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If you mention norm duke it would do nothing to validate it. If norm backed up 6" on the approach he would have to start on the tile, so I'm positive it's not an adjustment he uses.
When I was bowling I didn't pay any attention to what others were doing. But I've work with and studied under some of the greatest coaches and discussed the game with some of the best bowlers ever.
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If you mention norm duke it would do nothing to validate it. If norm backed up 6" on the approach he would have to start on the tile, so I'm positive it's not an adjustment he uses.
When I was bowling I didn't pay any attention to what others were doing. But I've work with and studied under some of the greatest coaches and discussed the game with some of the best bowlers ever.
I did. And it was prominent when I saw it. No you can't say that it was "this century", but during the 1995 or 1996 Omaha Lancer Open (LPBT/PWBA), Curtis Odom stopped by to check on how his wife and the rest of the ladies were bowling. And he was calling out which pin they would stick the moment the ball hit the lane; he was right each time. 10 pin. 7 pin. 4-9. 9 pin. While talking-to someone behind me, He saw his wife stick two 10 pins. He told them to watch how she'll move back a bit on her next ball on that lane to carry the 10 pin. Sure enough that I am alive, she stood back roughly 4 - 5" on the approach, threw her same line, and carried the 10.
It was something my coach taught me when I bowled juniors, was validated when my coach in collegiates said the same thing (Bill Straub), and was validated a 3rd time when a PBA member and PWBA member did the same thing.
I'm not going to argue against that, what I was taught, and what I saw with my own eyes; nor am I going to argue against what actually works for me.
EDIT: There is this.
http://www.slideshare.net/bestbowlingtips/bowling-tips-how-to-carry-the-10-pin
codifies everything I've said.
BL.
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Keep thinking it makes a difference.
I don't consider slideshare a credible authority on the game of bowling, but it's on the internet, so it must be true.
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People who use the up and back changes in their approach were taught by people who did that. The teachers were probably older and that is what they did back in the day.
Newer teachers who have developed their curriculum based on current philosophies and data do not teach the up and back change. Older teachers who don't teach the up and back change adapted to the current game.
Nothing says you can't make the move back 6" to carry the ten pin. In fact, you could probably figure out exactly how far right you would have to move to get the same result. This is the only thing current teachers are saying. If moving 6" back is the same as moving 1/2 board right, then the new era will make the 1/2 board right move, not the 6" back.
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If someone has repeated trouble with the 10 or any other pin, they're playing the lanes wrong. I can't remember the last time I bowled a set and left the same thing repeatedly. Last night the only leave I repeated was the 7 pin on back to back shots. Tuesday I think I had maybe 3 10s all night, if that. Like Rico said, sometimes all you need to do is believe something is working, and if you throw the ball more confidently, the pins know that. Sometimes that's ALL I've done when I've had a few rough frames, I tell myself to stop worrying about the carry and commit to the shot more, and that fixes it every time. But that's what I said earlier, it's a placebo, and it may work just fine, just not in the way you think it does. Sometimes it's about tricking your brain into being more comfortable, and that translates to the pins.
I was watching Cutthroat Kitchen a couple nights ago. They got down to the dessert round, and this guy got sabotaged and had his sugar replaced with Pop Rocks. He opened a package he thought was blueberry and dumped it into his sauce. Turns out he was looking at the back of the package, and the real flavor of the Pop Rocks was bubble gum. He ended up calling it blueberry anyway, because he explained that if you tell somebody something is a certain flavor and they're expecting that flavor, sometimes you can trick the brain into perceiving it that way. This world famous food expert was doing the judging, and when he was told it was a blueberry sauce, he ate it and never noticed.
So once again, if moving back on the approach works, great! I never said it didn't. I just said it's not working for the reasons you think it is. If you're playing 20-8, and you move back 6 inches, you know what the total launch angle change is in degrees? Rounded up, it's 0.02 degrees, or in other words, 2 hundredths of a degree. That translates to you laying it down 1/3 of a MILLIMETER further right if you back up 6 inches on the approach, meaning if you have laser accuracy, you'll still be overlapping your original track given an average footprint width.
And in doing research about footprint width, I found this: The negatively charged electron clouds on the outside of the bowling ball's molecules are repelled by the negative electron clouds of the floor's molecules - the ball levitates slightly.
I also found this if you want to have some fun: http://www.real-world-physics-problems.com/physics-of-bowling.html
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That was all calculated based on 20-8 at 38', btw . .
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If I can't strike with my big toe on the big dot, it's everyone and everything's fault but mine.
Yep, (screams) "These lanes are bone dry, im looking at 3rd Arrow".
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I have been around a lot of good/great bowlers in my life, and have never met one that made up/back adjustments on the approach unless it was to get around the ball return.
Could anyone provide an example of someone who is above league bowler status that actually use these adjustments this century?
None,its ancient 1980s bowling folklore, much like bowling with a towel hanging from your back pocket, but hey, whatever works, right?
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I fully expect the guys making the 6" forward/back adjustment to have their towel hanging out of their pocket.
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I fully expect the guys making the 6" forward/back adjustment to have their towel hanging out of their pocket.
Too bad I carry a 215 average and have multiple 300s to my name. So please take your expectations and keep them to yourself. Feel free to hit the USBC site and check my bona fides.
Or better yet, we could take it to the lanes.
Besides.. you missed the fact that the info I referenced was from a book.
So you keep believing that I'm wrong, while I carry the corner when I have a problem.
BL.
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A. too many bowlers wanna play blackjack...stand on 20 hit 10...B. agreed if you are repeatedly leaving a certain pin your angle is wrong and it's not how close you are to the foul line C. when I have someone move 6" it's to adjust their footwork in regards to where the ball is in their approach or to adjust their ball speed up or down but generally not to correct pin carry but how or where the ball slows down nothing else
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Brad nothing personal but there are a lot of good bowlers on the Internet and you can NOT base individual situations as gospel...each individual situation is that nothing else...so get off your glorified high horse...
I haven't bowled in over 10 yrs but my 25 yrs as a competitor on every level was pretty good and much of what or how I did things I do NOT teach and I've been a pretty decent instructor for more than a few years...closer to 20-25 yrs
You have to understand what is relevant and what isn't in today's game...there are many other vital components of the swing that is important than how close you start to the foul line...plain & simple
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I average 215 too . . lefthanded. Nobody ever said you were wrong, you just aren't right for the reasons you think you're right for. Look a bit higher and see my math on it. If that's what it takes to get your head comfortable, that's all fine and good, but there are easier ways to achieve the same result. I wouldn't teach that to anyone, but I'm not going to tell you to stop doing it if it works for you.
I fully expect the guys making the 6" forward/back adjustment to have their towel hanging out of their pocket.
Too bad I carry a 215 average and have multiple 300s to my name. So please take your expectations and keep them to yourself. Feel free to hit the USBC site and check my bona fides.
Or better yet, we could take it to the lanes.
Besides.. you missed the fact that the info I referenced was from a book.
So you keep believing that I'm wrong, while I carry the corner when I have a problem.
BL.
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Ric's more fun when he's free to speak his mind.
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Yeap . . and I agree with his statement on edit. There are things I do too that I'd never teach to anybody.
Ric's more fun when he's free to speak his mind.
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215 and it looks like we hit a nerve about the towel. Just what I would expect.
For the last 7 years the only time I've put bowling shoes on is to test balls. But, I guarantee that you and your 215 average don't want any part of taking me to the lanes.
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215 on today's conditions for the most isn't anything to brag about...I averaged almost 220 my last year of juniors which was 81 or 82...
I'm always funny...
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Brad nothing personal but there are a lot of good bowlers on the Internet and you can NOT base individual situations as gospel...each individual situation is that nothing else...so get off your glorified high horse...
I haven't bowled in over 10 yrs but my 25 yrs as a competitor on every level was pretty good and much of what or how I did things I do NOT teach and I've been a pretty decent instructor for more than a few years...closer to 20-25 yrs
You have to understand what is relevant and what isn't in today's game...there are many other vital components of the swing that is important than how close you start to the foul line...plain & simple
But that also doesn't give any of them the right to judge me or my game because of something they do or do not believe. As I mentioned at least three times in this thread, YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY. But I have not once berated or judged anyone else's physical or mental game here. I would hope that the same respect could be given in return, but As with a lot of other people, I am proven wrong.
215 and it looks like we hit a nerve about the towel. Just what I would expect.
Hardly. I'm not the type of person who has spent 37 of my 40 years of life working hard on something to have someone who doesn't know me or my game dictate what type of bowler I am.
For the last 7 years the only time I've put bowling shoes on is to test balls. But, I guarantee that you and your 215 average don't want any part of taking me to the lanes.
I welcome the challenge, because I am not afraid of losing. Only inspires me to get better. So yes. I do.
BL.
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So you were working hard at the game at age 3? Give me a break.
And if you have been working hard on your bowling for 37 years and have only gotten to 215 I want to clue you in on something, your not going to get any better.
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I'm the funny one? You guys inspire me!
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So you were working hard at the game at age 3? Give me a break.
And if you have been working hard on your bowling for 37 years and have only gotten to 215 I want to clue you in on something, your not going to get any better.
and with that, I know that I am better than you. No matter what you say or do, I'll always win. So keep believing what you want, because all you can ever do is try to prop yourself up to look better by dumping on others. You'll just serve to remind everyone else how sad and pathetic a life like that is, and that you can't, won't, nor don't know how to make it better.
I'm bowing out of this, because you don't deserve my time now. Keep on trying to prop yourself up at the expense of others; it may be the only thing you will ever be good at.
BL.
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You may think he's propping himself up at the expense of others...but you continue to spew who you bowled against 25 yrs ago or what you did in college or blah blah blah...you posts are either condescending or you telling others how good you think you are or were...who cares in the big scheme of things...you are trying to big a fish in a pond...nothing more nothing less...
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Ric's more fun when he's free to speak his mind.
Ric is funnier in person lol :)
- I think he showed me some tricks to this game too ;)
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Brad,
I mentioned nothing of my game until you and your 215 average called me out. So that's a long way from propping myself up at the expense of others. That's just clarifying for you that you will be beaten like a drum if you would choose to bowl against me.
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Brad where you at?
I'm down for some pots, $15-20 a game if you live near NorCal. I booked a 202. I don't mind at all too ;) btw, just because I look asian doesn't mean I bag lol...but seriously I'm down for a friendly scratch...
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My boy takin' care of my light work.
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My boy takin' care of my light work.
And I'll bring the "towel"......
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Video or it didn't happen.
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I'm flabbergasted that averaging 215 on house is something to boast about. Furthermore, I highly doubt you're carrying corners consistently averaging 215.
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Video or it didn't happen.
LOL sounds like motley crew does bay watch lol
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Why do so many bowling topics turn into personal attacks? Can't we keep that stuff in the Misc Non-Bowling forum? It's okay to disagree with others, we all don't see everything the same, but it would be nice to keep the personal stuff out.
I like to see others' opinions on bowling related topics, even if it won't work for me, just to broaden my knowledge. A lot of things that I learned in the '60's or 70's are being contradicted now by instructors probably because the bowling balls and the lane surfaces have evolved, so seeing these topics are a help.
And the OP did ask for 'old school' moves.
Oh, and a 215 at one house may be a 205 at another and still yet a 230 at another. We don't all bowl on the same conditions. Compare a sport average to a THS average.
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Non Misc forum is cliquey IMHO.
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If you ask LuckyLefty I have a cult
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What a sad pissing match about something that's subjective and personal.
Some of you need to take some time away from the game and take your frustrations out clubbing baby seals or something.
Cripes.
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This what happens when you join BR :)
If you expect etiquette on here, good luck.
If you can't stand the BS that goes on around here, then take a break from BR. I did a few years ago. We can blame Mustare aka mr 900 if that's possible ?? For that...
This post is nothing compared to history of BR...
I'd rather beat Richard than a seal....
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Why do so many bowling topics turn into personal attacks? Can't we keep that stuff in the Misc Non-Bowling forum? It's okay to disagree with others, we all don't see everything the same, but it would be nice to keep the personal stuff out.
I like to see others' opinions on bowling related topics, even if it won't work for me, just to broaden my knowledge. A lot of things that I learned in the '60's or 70's are being contradicted now by instructors probably because the bowling balls and the lane surfaces have evolved, so seeing these topics are a help.
And the OP did ask for 'old school' moves.
Oh, and a 215 at one house may be a 205 at another and still yet a 230 at another. We don't all bowl on the same conditions. Compare a sport average to a THS average.
Dude, you sound like Rodney King. "Why can't we all just get along."
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So us participating in some harmless on line s*%t talking is comparable to clubbing baby harp seals? Where do you live?
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So us participating in some harmless on line s*%t talking is comparable to clubbing baby harp seals? Where do you live?
Based on his history, I'd venture to say a shed In a rural area in the South.
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So us participating in some harmless on line s*%t talking is comparable to clubbing baby harp seals? Where do you live?
But what about a persons feels??
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Why do so many bowling topics turn into personal attacks? Can't we keep that stuff in the Misc Non-Bowling forum? It's okay to disagree with others, we all don't see everything the same, but it would be nice to keep the personal stuff out.
I like to see others' opinions on bowling related topics, even if it won't work for me, just to broaden my knowledge. A lot of things that I learned in the '60's or 70's are being contradicted now by instructors probably because the bowling balls and the lane surfaces have evolved, so seeing these topics are a help.
And the OP did ask for 'old school' moves.
Oh, and a 215 at one house may be a 205 at another and still yet a 230 at another. We don't all bowl on the same conditions. Compare a sport average to a THS average.
Dude, you sound like Rodney King. "Why can't we all just get along."
You mean he was wrong? :)
Seriously, I thought that there were posting rules in place for this site, like no personal attacks and no swearing or using other characters in place of swear words, but I just looked and I can't find them, so I guess anything goes now just like in the Misc Non-bowling forum.
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Here's the funny thing, nobody was judging YOU or your game! We are judging and talking about the method of moving forward or back on the approach. It has been reiterated time and time again that if it works for you, fine! It's also not about believing or not believing in something. It is not fundamentally or mathematically a method or practice that will result in the change needed to carry the 10. But if it makes you more comfortable and you believe in the move, the quality of your shot will improve. Like I said before, there have been several times this year that I had some issues, and ALL I CHANGED was committing to the shot more. Didn't move, didn't adjust, just told myself to trust the shot more, and I'd get right back on stringing them.
But honestly, now that you said you average 215 and have "multiple 300s" we're all judging your game now . . but you went there. I didn't start bowling until I was 19, bowled a full season lefthanded, missed half of a couple other seasons due to injuries, and if you want to base who's right and wrong on resumes, we can certainly go there.
Again, nobody said anything about your game at all. The technique doesn't mathematically work, but that doesn't mean it won't work for you. It just means it's not a fundamental principle, and going waaaay back to my first post on this topic, it's a placebo. But we all know that placebos have a surprising success rate.
Brad nothing personal but there are a lot of good bowlers on the Internet and you can NOT base individual situations as gospel...each individual situation is that nothing else...so get off your glorified high horse...
I haven't bowled in over 10 yrs but my 25 yrs as a competitor on every level was pretty good and much of what or how I did things I do NOT teach and I've been a pretty decent instructor for more than a few years...closer to 20-25 yrs
You have to understand what is relevant and what isn't in today's game...there are many other vital components of the swing that is important than how close you start to the foul line...plain & simple
But that also doesn't give any of them the right to judge me or my game because of something they do or do not believe. As I mentioned at least three times in this thread, YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY. But I have not once berated or judged anyone else's physical or mental game here. I would hope that the same respect could be given in return, but As with a lot of other people, I am proven wrong.
215 and it looks like we hit a nerve about the towel. Just what I would expect.
Hardly. I'm not the type of person who has spent 37 of my 40 years of life working hard on something to have someone who doesn't know me or my game dictate what type of bowler I am.
For the last 7 years the only time I've put bowling shoes on is to test balls. But, I guarantee that you and your 215 average don't want any part of taking me to the lanes.
I welcome the challenge, because I am not afraid of losing. Only inspires me to get better. So yes. I do.
BL.
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And the reason everything on this site turns into a pissing contest is because everyone has an opinion that they want to be right. Nobody wants to have calm logical debates about things, everybody looks for any reason they can find to start drama like it's high school or something.
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I hoped people understand at no point should you brag about being a good or great bowler.....even on a bowling website. Its nothing to brag about.
On the list of things to be proud of being good at would include golf, darts, and billards. All ahead of bowling. Bowling falls in the realm of curling and synchronized water dancing.
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Dude, curling is RIVETING. It's like chess PLUS bowling . .
I hoped people understand at no point should you brag about being a good or great bowler.....even on a bowling website. Its nothing to brag about.
On the list of things to be proud of being good at would include golf, darts, and billards. All ahead of bowling. Bowling falls in the realm of curling and synchronized water dancing.