win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: So let me get this straight . .  (Read 6198 times)

Gizmo823

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2167
So let me get this straight . .
« on: November 18, 2014, 05:45:51 PM »
There's a rule in our scratch league that bit us last week, and I find it kind of suspect.  The blind score is 200.  Our season is divided into thirds, and you can only use your average as an absent score once per third, or you have to use 200.  You CAN choose when you want to use your average, it's not like the first time you can't make it you have to use it, but here's the other side of the coin.  If your average is UNDER 200, you STILL get the option to use 200 if you aren't there.  We had a good week last week and got almost all the points, but the last game we should have won by 1, but actually lost by 6 because this guy got to use 200 instead of his real average of 193.  Is it a big deal?  Nah, the prize fund is flatter than any handicap league I've ever seen, everybody basically just uses it as a savings account and splits the added money up.  It's the least scratch scratch league I've ever seen, but it's the combination of the rules that get me. 

You can only use your average once per third so that you don't get a big average for a couple weeks and then take the next few weeks off and use your average.  Two lane courtesy (which we actually just vetoed a couple weeks ago).  We have league shirts that we MUST wear, or we get fined that night, there are no warnings.  You don't pay that night, you can't bowl.  Then the blind score rule of 200.  Yet we have a super flat prize fund.  I'm not sure what all these rules are protecting, it's a glorified good ol boy league but they're super militant with the rules.  I don't like that you get to use 200 if you aren't there even if your average is under.  If you join a scratch league averaging 190, sorry, you know what you're getting yourself into.  Don't get it . .
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

 

Jorge300

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6407
Re: So let me get this straight . .
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2014, 06:03:32 PM »
Gizmo,
   That's one of the dumbest rules I ever heard. How can someone or a team benefit from someone not being there. Hell if you are averaging 190, bowl 2-3 weeks then pay to not bowl and you just gave your team 10 pins a game. Plus it's static so if for some reason the lanes are exceptionally hard one night (for example the oil machine breaks and doesn't oil and they don't figure it out until after you guys start bowling, or the opposite, it puts too much oil out for some reason) while everyone else struggles to make average, the person not still gets 10 pins over their average. We always used the rule, a vacant or blind score was 200, but if a rostered bowler missed a week, it was their average. But if they missed more then 2 consectuive weeks, then it was 10 pins off their average for every week they miss going forward. So miss one week, use average. Miss the next week, use average. Miss the next week, use average - 10 pins, miss 4th straight week, average - 20 pins, and so on. People will sometime miss 2 weeks, vacations, work, etc. But after that you better find a sub. This made sure that you didn't have the scenario you have or the one they seem to be afraid of. Might be a suggestion for next year's rules.
 
on edit: I used to bowl in a large, big money scratch league with similar rules. Haf to wear team shirt, or fined. Had to wear black slacks (for men) or fined. No hats while bowling. We wanted to look professional to attract a sponsor. We paid $37 a week (back in 2004) and first place got $10,000 (4 man team). We had the league capped at 800, so we had bowlers average in the 170's in the league. Points were head to head against the person across from you, plus extra for team game and team total. But even that league has fallen into despair with crash. I bowled in that league for 4 years and the lowest # of teams we had was 32. Now the dress code is gone, down to 3 on team, and there were only 10-12 teams last time I looked. Just be lucky you still have league like this, and try to work to make it stronger.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 06:09:22 PM by Jorge300 »
Jorge300

northface28

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3333
Re: So let me get this straight . .
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2014, 06:06:30 PM »
You have a knack for finding some strange leagues.
NLMB 150 Dream Team
#NoTalking
#HellaBandz

SVstar34

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5468
Re: So let me get this straight . .
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2014, 06:13:26 PM »
That doesn't make any sense. If you're not bowling you shouldn't get a higher score than your average

kidlost2000

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5789
Re: So let me get this straight . .
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2014, 07:02:33 PM »
Our league your blind score is 10 below your average for all averages. Would be nice to be 170 and miss a week and shoot 90 above your average.
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

Gizmo823

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2167
Re: So let me get this straight . .
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2014, 07:46:53 PM »
It's also a second shift league that starts at 9pm, so although we do have sponsor names on our shirts, literally no one is there to watch except for some significant others.  We've had several league meetings this year about adjusting some things.  A handful of new teams from out of town joined the league last year and were really pretty shocked at how things operated and how much money they didn't get back at the end of the year.  Several things have been adjusted, but there are still some weird rules.  The blind score is the next bone to pick, it just doesn't make any sense that you could miss a week and get a higher score than what you most likely would have bowled.  But that rule was the difference between going 29-1 and 24-6 which is what it ended up being.  Again, in this league you don't make or lose a lot of money, so it's not a big deal, but I don't see the point of having a scratch league and all these rules if there isn't a bit of competition. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

itsallaboutme

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2017
Re: So let me get this straight . .
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2014, 04:59:06 AM »
Somebody needs to pay better attention at the league meeting when the rules are discussed. 

This would have never gotten through in any league I ever bowled in.  I've been in 4 hour league meetings way back when.  Every team was out to make rules that gave them an advantage.  One year they even came up with the "known bowler" rule to combat guys taking 3 or 4 years off and coming back at 170 when they used to average 210.  But this was a 24 team league that had a prize fund that pushed $100k 25 years ago.

Pinbuster

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4585
  • Former proshop worker
Re: So let me get this straight . .
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2014, 07:59:08 AM »
Our scratch league blind rule was that you got 10 pins less than the low score that was bowled by any bowler on the other team that game.

That way a blind always hurt the team.

Sounds like a rule that needs to be changed.

Monster Pike

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19904
  • Be careful what you wish for...;)
Re: So let me get this straight . .
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2014, 08:23:56 AM »
Our scratch league blind rule was that you got 10 pins less than the low score that was bowled by any bowler on the other team that game.

That way a blind always hurt the team.


Sounds like a rule that needs to be changed.

No, not if it's the worst bowler from the team missing & the competition's low bowler shoots higher than the guy missing... Then it's a reward... It only hurts if the guy missing is good & the opponents low guy not so good... So I think I disagree with that rule, too...

That sends the message that good bowlers can't miss league nights, stinky bowlers, go ahead & miss, we just might do better w/out ya...  Not fair to the better bowlers who may have to miss for legitimate family, health, work reasons etc...

 Leagues I've ever been in take the missing bowler's league avg. minus 10 that night. No matter how many nights in a row they miss.  I could see a progression a 5 more pins after the 2nd or 3rd week, but not 10...

Joe Cool

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1811
Re: So let me get this straight . .
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2014, 08:54:48 AM »
I agree the rule is a bit odd at best, but why do people never complain about odd/bad rules until it bites them in the ass? 
Hit the pocket and hope for the best

trash heap

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2648
Re: So let me get this straight . .
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2014, 09:08:44 AM »
USBC rules have handicap included with an absentee score. Everyone gets caught up on a person's score.  Who cares.  It should be one score for everyone.

Now when it comes to league deciding on that absentee score, its up to the league either to really penalize a team or not.

Examples:

A league has handicap base of 230. Everyone's average is based off this number.

Either set the absentee score to 220 (People bowling are not affected by the missing person) or set it to 130 (penalize team for not having a full roster). Maybe go some where in between.

Reason for one score is to make it simple. Why should it be based off the individual's average?  Each team should be down the same number for an absentee bowler. Why should there be a difference?

The men's league at the local center has the absentee score set to 130. Basically stating to a team you have 100 pins to make up each game if you are missing a bowler. Go in any night you will see most teams have five bowlers.

If a league is struggling to complete teams maybe that score is too much, bring up the absentee score. Carefule though,  if you set it too high, there is a better chance that bowlers might not show up.

If it was me, it depends on the number of bowlers on a team.

3 Person Team = Absentee Score should be minus 40 of the handicap base
4 Person Team = minus 60 of the handicap base
5 Person Team = minus 80 of the handicap base.

Basically each person bowling on that night at least has to make up 20 pins for their missing team mate.
Talkin' Trash!

Jorge300

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6407
Re: So let me get this straight . .
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2014, 10:03:48 AM »
Trash heap,
    Why would you penalize a team for a missing bowler? Things happen in life. People get stuck at work, people get sick during the day, people have emergencies...so what you are saying with this rule is "too bad, show up and bowl anyway". That is as bad as the rule Gizmo pointed out. And anytime you use a single score for everyone, you risk that the score will be higher than the missing person's average, unless you set it ridiculously low. Using the absent bowler's average or minus 10 off their average is fair. It takes into account the skill of the bowler and gives them a score commensurate with that skill. Why should the rest of the team each have to bowl 20 pins above their average to win a game just because somone was forced to miss a night?
Jorge300

milorafferty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11188
  • I have a name, therefore no preferred pronouns.
Re: So let me get this straight . .
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2014, 11:57:04 AM »
You have a knack for finding some strange leagues.

Agreed, I wonder what the hell is in the water in those Wichita bowling alleys.
"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

"If you don't stand for our flag, then don't expect me to give a damn about your feelings."

Gizmo823

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2167
Re: So let me get this straight . .
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2014, 12:17:47 PM »
It's a scratch league, it hasn't really applied in the past.  Only in the last couple years have we started to have people join the league that average less than 200.  It USED to be a penalty, and still is for 95% of the league.  Having to take 200 after using your average from one week is supposed to be incentive to show up or find a sub.  I just hadn't realized before you could use 200 even if you average under 200 . .

I agree the rule is a bit odd at best, but why do people never complain about odd/bad rules until it bites them in the ass?
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

cheech

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1360
Re: So let me get this straight . .
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2014, 08:30:28 PM »
our blind score is 190 in the scratch league no matter what if there is an open spot. gives you an incentive to find a sub.