win a ball from Bowling.com
« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 9

Author Topic: So the guy I bowled against tonight shot 921....***USBC Update***  (Read 13401 times)

302efi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2609
So the guy I bowled against tonight shot 921....***USBC Update***
« on: October 15, 2008, 01:36:40 PM »
...with handicap

How in the hell am I suppose to beat that ?


***10/20/08 Update***
I just received this response from USBC about handicap scores going over 300/900 handicap:

" Leagues have the ability to put a cap on handicap scores that would prevent any scores above 300 or 900 from being recorded.

Two years ago at the National convention, delegates voted against a proposal that would do the same thing in tournaments.

In short, leagues would be able to put in place such a rule at the leagues organizational meeting, however, a tournament director may not put such a rule in place "
--------------------
quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.

Sport Bowling is a F**king joke



Edited on 10/20/2008 2:15 PM
Logged

 

MI 2 AZ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8160
Re: So the guy I bowled against tonight shot 921....***USBC Update***
« Reply #76 on: October 16, 2008, 04:09:21 PM »
quote:
There is a total of 33 possible points a night:

Individual per game (Guy across from you) 1 point
Team per game (Team total per game) 2 points
Individual series (Guy across from you) 2 points
Team series (Team total per game) 2 points

If a guy with no handicap is limited to 300 per game max, shouldnt a guy with handicap be limited to 300 as well ?


In a singles league with no points for totals, I would have no problem with seeing a limit of 300 per game after handicaps, but for other leagues, the lost/deducted pins could effect team game and series points and the individual series points.  With your league setup, the lost pins could cost the bowler's team up to six points.  


--------------------

I am the Sgt Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________

New to BR? - Please check this:  BR FAQ
Logged
_________________________________________
Six decades of league bowling and still learning.

ABC/USBC Lifetime Member since Aug 1995.

agroves

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4939
Re: So the guy I bowled against tonight shot 921....***USBC Update***
« Reply #77 on: October 16, 2008, 04:44:32 PM »
quote:
What if two guys with handicaps in the 50's, one has 59 pins of cap and the other has 50 pins of cap, both shoot lights out on the same night?  Lets say for argument that their scores are 268 and 257 respectively.  That's where the 300/900 limit rule would get tricky.  You'd have one guy who should have beaten the other guys with handicap, but they end up tied because their scores+cap are artificially limited.

Not that something like that happens very often, but probably more often than one guy shooting 300 scratch and the other shooting 300+ with cap.
--------------------
-Clint


What happens if two guys on opposing teams shot 300?  They tie..thats all.
--------------------
• Men wake up as good-looking as they went to bed.
• Women somehow deteriorate during the night.
Logged

ccrider

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2230
Re: So the guy I bowled against tonight shot 921....***USBC Update***
« Reply #78 on: October 16, 2008, 05:18:32 PM »
My game has been all over the place. If it was not for my handicap, my team would have fired me.

If you don't like handicaps, bowl in a scratch league.

Someday, I hope to be good enough to beat most bowlers in our men's league, despite their handicap or my handicap.

CC
--------------------
Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.

Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.
Logged

Dan Belcher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3954
Re: So the guy I bowled against tonight shot 921....***USBC Update***
« Reply #79 on: October 16, 2008, 05:23:24 PM »
quote:
If you don't like handicaps, bowl in a scratch league.
For the millionth time, we aren't complaining about handicap itself!  We're complaining specifically about being allowed to have a score higher than 300 in a game with handicap.
Logged

nospareball

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 662
Re: So the guy I bowled against tonight shot 921....***USBC Update***
« Reply #80 on: October 16, 2008, 07:43:56 PM »
quote:

What happens if two guys on opposing teams shot 300?  They tie..thats all.
--------------------
• Men wake up as good-looking as they went to bed.
• Women somehow deteriorate during the night.


Yup, I'm not disputing that fact.  But in my example above, the guy who shot 269 beat the other guy scratch and handicap, but can only end up with a tie.  Does that make sense?  I guess what I'm trying to say is that it opens up a can of worms, and you end up with more weird situations then when you started out.
--------------------
-Clint
Logged

302efi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2609
Re: So the guy I bowled against tonight shot 921....***USBC Update***
« Reply #81 on: October 16, 2008, 07:46:56 PM »
quote:
quote:
If you don't like handicaps, bowl in a scratch league.
For the millionth time, we aren't complaining about handicap itself!  We're complaining specifically about being allowed to have a score higher than 300 in a game with handicap.


Dan I don't think people can actually read...They just assume the worst when they see the word "handicap"
--------------------
quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.

Sport Bowling is a F**king joke
Logged

Dan Belcher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3954
Re: So the guy I bowled against tonight shot 921....***USBC Update***
« Reply #82 on: October 16, 2008, 08:09:18 PM »
quote:
quote:
quote:
If you don't like handicaps, bowl in a scratch league.
For the millionth time, we aren't complaining about handicap itself!  We're complaining specifically about being allowed to have a score higher than 300 in a game with handicap.


Dan I don't think people can actually read...They just assume the worst when they see the word "handicap"
--------------------
quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.

Sport Bowling is a F**king joke
Well, I guess they can't read much, but at least they know one particular word of the English language quite well apparently.  
Logged

agroves

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4939
Re: So the guy I bowled against tonight shot 921....***USBC Update***
« Reply #83 on: October 16, 2008, 08:56:11 PM »
quote:
quote:

What happens if two guys on opposing teams shot 300?  They tie..thats all.
--------------------
• Men wake up as good-looking as they went to bed.
• Women somehow deteriorate during the night.


Yup, I'm not disputing that fact.  But in my example above, the guy who shot 269 beat the other guy scratch and handicap, but can only end up with a tie.  Does that make sense?  I guess what I'm trying to say is that it opens up a can of worms, and you end up with more weird situations then when you started out.
--------------------
-Clint


I understand, but I still think it should end up in a tie...  JMO...
--------------------
• Men wake up as good-looking as they went to bed.
• Women somehow deteriorate during the night.
Logged

scotts33

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8452
Re: So the guy I bowled against tonight shot 921....***USBC Update***
« Reply #84 on: October 16, 2008, 09:12:38 PM »
quote:
    quote:I'd say if you don't like it 302 just bowl scratch leagues. If there are no scratch leagues.....oh well.

    BTW...is everybody in the league under 220?
    --------------------
    Scott

As I've posted earlier, there is none nowhere in the county..lol There is a Classic league on Monday nights that capped per team and I'm on it

As far as 220 in the league, the league is made up of 30 teams, 5 man teams. There is a couple, maybe 3-4 people between 220-228 I'd say.


Then, IMO the league is not based off a high enough number.  It should be based off the highest average the year before.  Are the 3-4 bowlers that average over 220 going minus or just nothing over 220?  Your base is not high enough.

Since, they're are no scratch leagues in your area change the rule or just bowl with the rules the way they are.
--------------------
Scott

Logged
Scott

302efi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2609
Re: So the guy I bowled against tonight shot 921....***USBC Update***
« Reply #85 on: October 16, 2008, 10:41:40 PM »
quote:
quote:
    quote:I'd say if you don't like it 302 just bowl scratch leagues. If there are no scratch leagues.....oh well.

    BTW...is everybody in the league under 220?
    --------------------
    Scott

As I've posted earlier, there is none nowhere in the county..lol There is a Classic league on Monday nights that capped per team and I'm on it

As far as 220 in the league, the league is made up of 30 teams, 5 man teams. There is a couple, maybe 3-4 people between 220-228 I'd say.


Then, IMO the league is not based off a high enough number.  It should be based off the highest average the year before.  Are the 3-4 bowlers that average over 220 going minus or just nothing over 220?  Your base is not high enough.

Since, they're are no scratch leagues in your area change the rule or just bowl with the rules the way they are.
--------------------
Scott



Yeah I'm not to worried about the handicap too much, I'd just like to see the USBC ules be changed reflecting scores being allowed over 300/900.

IMO, allowing "free pins" to total over the max shootable score is a joke.

"Dude I shot my first 300 last !"

"Well my friend shot a 318"

Dose that even sound right ...lol^^^^
--------------------
quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.

Sport Bowling is a F**king joke
Logged

nospareball

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 662
Re: So the guy I bowled against tonight shot 921....***USBC Update***
« Reply #86 on: October 16, 2008, 10:45:29 PM »
quote:
quote:
quote:

What happens if two guys on opposing teams shot 300?  They tie..thats all.
--------------------
• Men wake up as good-looking as they went to bed.
• Women somehow deteriorate during the night.


Yup, I'm not disputing that fact.  But in my example above, the guy who shot 269 beat the other guy scratch and handicap, but can only end up with a tie.  Does that make sense?  I guess what I'm trying to say is that it opens up a can of worms, and you end up with more weird situations then when you started out.
--------------------
-Clint


I understand, but I still think it should end up in a tie...  JMO...
--------------------
• Men wake up as good-looking as they went to bed.
• Women somehow deteriorate during the night.


Fair enough.  Could a rule like this be put in place for a league/tournament?  Or would it have to be an official rule from the USBC?
--------------------
-Clint
Logged

Pinbuster

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4585
  • Former proshop worker
Re: So the guy I bowled against tonight shot 921....***USBC Update***
« Reply #87 on: October 17, 2008, 07:10:01 AM »
All this ado about nothing.

In 45 years of league bowling I don't believe I have ever seen a game or series lost just because one bowler shot over 300 or 900. The opponent has always shot considerably less than 300/900.

Now tournaments are a different matter. I have seen a singles event won with a handicap score over 900. But so what if they cap it at 900. No one is going to tie them shooting scratch.
Logged

Jorge300

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6407
Re: So the guy I bowled against tonight shot 921....***USBC Update***
« Reply #88 on: October 17, 2008, 07:46:48 AM »
quote:
quote:
There is a total of 33 possible points a night:

Individual per game (Guy across from you) 1 point
Team per game (Team total per game) 2 points
Individual series (Guy across from you) 2 points
Team series (Team total per game) 2 points

If a guy with no handicap is limited to 300 per game max, shouldnt a guy with handicap be limited to 300 as well ?


In a singles league with no points for totals, I would have no problem with seeing a limit of 300 per game after handicaps, but for other leagues, the lost/deducted pins could effect team game and series points and the individual series points.  With your league setup, the lost pins could cost the bowler's team up to six points.  


--------------------

I am the Sgt Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________

New to BR? - Please check this:  BR FAQ


This is another excellent point, but in fact MI has short changed the low average bowler in his example.

Take the 921 example in the OP. Let's for arguement say they rolled a triplicate so with handicap that's 307/game. And lets also for arguements sake, to make 302 happy, the opponent of this low average bowler shoots 900 scratch. If the you cap the scores at 300, you potentially cost the low average bowler and his team 10.5 points. Instead of getting 3 points for individual game, they 1.5 for the 3 ties. You could lose all 6 team game points, if you didn't win by more then 7 pins, you lose 1 point in individual series with the tie instead of the win and you potentially lose the 2 points for team series. You effect almost 1/3 of the nights points just because some scratch bowlers have their panites in a bunch over a scenario that will likely never happen.

Funny thing is 302 has never posted what he bowled against this 921, probably because the guy beat him scratch and he just wanted to find something to complain about.
--------------------
Jorge300

Logged
Jorge300

Dan Belcher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3954
Re: So the guy I bowled against tonight shot 921....***USBC Update***
« Reply #89 on: October 17, 2008, 08:15:49 AM »
quote:
Funny thing is 302 has never posted what he bowled against this 921, probably because the guy beat him scratch and he just wanted to find something to complain about.
Actually, look on the previous page.

"His was getting 81 pins a game.
His first game was 342, second was a 302 and the last was 277 (all with handicap)"
(I did the math for you if you're curious, that'd be shooting 261-221-196=678 scratch)
"I shot 708 scratch, so 711 with handicap..lol"

But 302efi isn't even complaining here that he got beat.  That's not the problem here.  It just made him realize a flaw in the handicap system that somebody can have a score higher than a perfect game should give you.  How is that fair???
Logged

LuckyLefty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17348
Re: So the guy I bowled against tonight shot 921....***USBC Update***
« Reply #90 on: October 17, 2008, 09:04:25 AM »
that is my point too.

In this example I believe it is irrelavant...because 302efi didn't even come close to 900.  

Even if this guy now that he has a new ball gets established real soon at his real average 180 or better.  He would have won with a "FAIR" handicap.

The issue as Pinbuster stated above is usually moot.  No unbelievable scores were shot by anyone except Mr. Low average but going up fast Mr. 676!

He was gonna win...deserved to win....did win on a very memorable night for him.  Whether he ends up staying in the 150 to 160 area or goes up over 200 over the next year.  If he goes up because of his new ball and fit...he will remember this as the night....he began to get good!

When you shoot 300 or 900 and get beat....a good time to worry about this.


REgards,

Luckylefty

--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Logged
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 9
« previous next »