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Author Topic: So Urethane is just a crutch that ruins the shot  (Read 33497 times)

Aloarjr810

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So Urethane is just a crutch that ruins the shot
« on: December 05, 2017, 10:07:11 AM »
Phil Cardinale's did a FB live feed shot on Dec. 1st in it he tells what he thinks about urethane and why Radical won't have a urethane ball (at least at the moment).


See about the 17min. mark
https://www.facebook.com/radical.bowling.technologies/videos/1490117054441795/

basically it boiled down to

1-Radical won't have a Urethane (Right Now)
2-People use Urethane as a crutch.
3-You can use a resin ball with a mild drilling and a surface change and it won't ruin the shot as bad as Urethane will.
4-But if your on Radical staff and you want to use Urethane Brunswick makes real good ones.
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milorafferty

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Re: So Urethane is just a crutch that ruins the shot
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2017, 01:50:45 PM »
Quote from: HackJandy on December 05, 2017, 01:42:56 PM
Quote from: milorafferty on December 05, 2017, 01:34:06 PM
Quote from: HackJandy on December 05, 2017, 01:29:37 PM
True Mo did make one of the best urethane ball back in the day (Sumo) so yeah I am sure 25 years later he could do something pretty amazing.

I seem to be the only person who doesn't "get" Mo.

I keep hearing how great his stuff was, how innovative he is and that his knowledge is second to none.

I have owned a few Morich balls and wasn't impressed. Not bad balls, but there are better options. If Mo is so much smarter than everyone else in bowling, why was his company such a dismal failure? Why wasn't every bowler using his stuff if it was so great?

It's the same with the Lane #1 guy, if the products are so much better(as they claim), then why aren't more bowlers buying their stuff?

Lane 1 was because $300 balls don't sell and when he did catch lightning in a bottle with the Brunswick pours he decided to unwisely stiff them.  Mo does know his stuff and is accessible but yeah plenty of other companies know their stuff as well.  Have to have the marketing unless your balls are just otherworldly and if they are your deeper pocket competitors are going to have the same ball out in a few months.  Ask Nu-Line.

Sorry, but Lane #1 was failing way before their $300 bowling ball. Nu-Line was before my time, but wasn't Storm bowling started in Bill Chrisman's garage? As I understand it, the guy was a chemist before starting High Score Products(Now Storm).

Motiv bowling had some financial backing with their parent company's existing products, but they seemed to get off to a decent start as well. And it's not like they are a Fortune 500 company either, so the money needed can't be that high.

Richie and Mo both talk a good game, but they both strike me a "All hat, no cattle".
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HackJandy

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Re: So Urethane is just a crutch that ruins the shot
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2017, 02:07:08 PM »
Quote from: milorafferty on December 05, 2017, 01:50:45 PM
Quote from: HackJandy on December 05, 2017, 01:42:56 PM
Quote from: milorafferty on December 05, 2017, 01:34:06 PM
Quote from: HackJandy on December 05, 2017, 01:29:37 PM
True Mo did make one of the best urethane ball back in the day (Sumo) so yeah I am sure 25 years later he could do something pretty amazing.

I seem to be the only person who doesn't "get" Mo.

I keep hearing how great his stuff was, how innovative he is and that his knowledge is second to none.

I have owned a few Morich balls and wasn't impressed. Not bad balls, but there are better options. If Mo is so much smarter than everyone else in bowling, why was his company such a dismal failure? Why wasn't every bowler using his stuff if it was so great?

It's the same with the Lane #1 guy, if the products are so much better(as they claim), then why aren't more bowlers buying their stuff?

Lane 1 was because $300 balls don't sell and when he did catch lightning in a bottle with the Brunswick pours he decided to unwisely stiff them.  Mo does know his stuff and is accessible but yeah plenty of other companies know their stuff as well.  Have to have the marketing unless your balls are just otherworldly and if they are your deeper pocket competitors are going to have the same ball out in a few months.  Ask Nu-Line.

Sorry, but Lane #1 was failing way before their $300 bowling ball. Nu-Line was before my time, but wasn't Storm bowling started in Bill Chrisman's garage? As I understand it, the guy was a chemist before starting High Score Products(Now Storm).

Motiv bowling had some financial backing with their parent company's existing products, but they seemed to get off to a decent start as well. And it's not like they are a Fortune 500 company either, so the money needed can't be that high.

Richie and Mo both talk a good game, but they both strike me a "All hat, no cattle".

Richie I can agree with as my Stealth Bomber is one of my worst balls (these days Ritchie is only good for urethane ball polish).  Mo though does have some good pieces which I own.  Will readily agree Storm and Motiv make some fine pieces as well as I also own some.  Ever major company seems to have its strengths and weaknesses (Mo for example is great with cores and Storm as you say is awesome at chemistry (cover stock formulations)).   Sales don't always equal best ball as pretty sure the plastic ball market beats reactives in not only numbers sold but probably in overall revenue as well.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 02:26:48 PM by HackJandy »
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Juggernaut

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Re: So Urethane is just a crutch that ruins the shot
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2017, 02:31:48 PM »
Quote from: milorafferty on December 05, 2017, 01:34:06 PM

I seem to be the only person who doesn't "get" Mo.

I keep hearing how great his stuff was, how innovative he is and that his knowledge is second to none.

 No, you’re not the only one.

 
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Impending Doom

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Re: So Urethane is just a crutch that ruins the shot
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2017, 02:39:36 PM »
Mo's early offerings were great. I had a 3d offset super hook and Sledgehammer, both were out of this world. So when Morich started, I tried a Colossus. Hated it. Gave it away. Tried an Awesome Hook and Awesome Revs. Gave the Hook away and gave the Revs to my brother.

Mo's problem is that he thinks more is better. More intermediate diff, more flare, more engine, more everything!

But sometimes, less is more. As much as I loved my Network, .030 intermediate diff is too much. .025 is pushing it. Ritchie had the same problem with the DIFFERENCE. Too much.

Lane 1 had some killers as well, but they were all with the weaker Brunswick covers. The 900 Global covers sucked on the cores, and there is only so much you can do with one core shape.
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JamminJD

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Re: So Urethane is just a crutch that ruins the shot
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2017, 02:41:33 PM »
Quote from: Impending Doom on December 05, 2017, 02:39:36 PM
Mo's early offerings were great. I had a 3d offset super hook and Sledgehammer, both were out of this world. So when Morich started, I tried a Colossus. Hated it. Gave it away. Tried an Awesome Hook and Awesome Revs. Gave the Hook away and gave the Revs to my brother.

Mo's problem is that he thinks more is better. More intermediate diff, more flare, more engine, more everything!

But sometimes, less is more. As much as I loved my Network, .030 intermediate diff is too much. .025 is pushing it. Ritchie had the same problem with the DIFFERENCE. Too much.

Lane 1 had some killers as well, but they were all with the weaker Brunswick covers. The 900 Global covers sucked on the cores, and there is only so much you can do with one core shape.

Agree.
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HackJandy

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Re: So Urethane is just a crutch that ruins the shot
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2017, 03:00:06 PM »
Quote from: Impending Doom on December 05, 2017, 02:39:36 PM
Mo's early offerings were great. I had a 3d offset super hook and Sledgehammer, both were out of this world. So when Morich started, I tried a Colossus. Hated it. Gave it away. Tried an Awesome Hook and Awesome Revs. Gave the Hook away and gave the Revs to my brother.

Mo's problem is that he thinks more is better. More intermediate diff, more flare, more engine, more everything!

But sometimes, less is more. As much as I loved my Network, .030 intermediate diff is too much. .025 is pushing it. Ritchie had the same problem with the DIFFERENCE. Too much.

Lane 1 had some killers as well, but they were all with the weaker Brunswick covers. The 900 Global covers sucked on the cores, and there is only so much you can do with one core shape.

Also agree but with the caveat I am one of the kind of rare bowlers who rarely can have too much ball due to my style which is probably why Mo's pieces work well for me.  I guess many people struggle with most solid reactives on THS but that isn't me.
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charlest

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Re: So Urethane is just a crutch that ruins the shot
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2017, 04:30:33 PM »
Quote from: milorafferty on December 05, 2017, 01:34:06 PM
Quote from: HackJandy on December 05, 2017, 01:29:37 PM
True Mo did make one of the best urethane ball back in the day (Sumo) so yeah I am sure 25 years later he could do something pretty amazing.

I seem to be the only person who doesn't "get" Mo.

No, you are not. I don't get the adulation he receives for 95% of his balls. I will agree that 2-5% of them were ground breaking.

Quote
I keep hearing how great his stuff was, how innovative he is and that his knowledge is second to none.

His knowledge and creativity are 2nd to none; his ability to communicate his ideas rate right behind Trump and a chimpanzee. He literally need a translator. I don't understand 90% of what he says, but then I only have a Master degree in computers and Mathematics.

I suspect Pinel dropped out every English class he attended.

Quote
I have owned a few Morich balls and wasn't impressed. Not bad balls, but there are better options. If Mo is so much smarter than everyone else in bowling, why was his company such a dismal failure? Why wasn't every bowler using his stuff if it was so great?

Because he is not and never has been a businessman. His arrogance is beyond comprehension. I can't even believe he got someone, as rational and with as much common sense as Phil, to agree to work with him. Maybe Brunswick made Phil some promises?

Quote
It's the same with the Lane #1 guy, if the products are so much better(as they claim), then why aren't more bowlers buying their stuff?

Let's not bring Ritchie ("Ignorance is Bliss") Sposato into this discussion.
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milorafferty

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Re: So Urethane is just a crutch that ruins the shot
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2017, 04:57:40 PM »
Quote from: charlest on December 05, 2017, 04:30:33 PM
Quote from: milorafferty on December 05, 2017, 01:34:06 PM
Quote from: HackJandy on December 05, 2017, 01:29:37 PM
True Mo did make one of the best urethane ball back in the day (Sumo) so yeah I am sure 25 years later he could do something pretty amazing.

I seem to be the only person who doesn't "get" Mo.


Because he is not and never has been a businessman. His arrogance is beyond comprehension. I can't even believe he got someone, as rational and with as much common sense as Phil, to agree to work with him. Maybe Brunswick made Phil some promises?



I haven't met either of the guys in person, but the few times I've read post from them, they both seem like giant "Richards".


So you are suggesting that Brunswick did the equivalent of tying a pork chop around Mo's neck to get the dog(Phil in this case) to play with him?  ;D ;D
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 04:59:32 PM by milorafferty »
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tburky

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Re: So Urethane is just a crutch that ruins the shot
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2017, 06:04:26 PM »
Quote from: charlest on December 05, 2017, 04:30:33 PM
Quote from: milorafferty on December 05, 2017, 01:34:06 PM
Quote from: HackJandy on December 05, 2017, 01:29:37 PM
True Mo did make one of the best urethane ball back in the day (Sumo) so yeah I am sure 25 years later he could do something pretty amazing.

I seem to be the only person who doesn't "get" Mo.

No, you are not. I don't get the adulation he receives for 95% of his balls. I will agree that 2-5% of them were ground breaking.

Quote
I keep hearing how great his stuff was, how innovative he is and that his knowledge is second to none.

His knowledge and creativity are 2nd to none; his ability to communicate his ideas rate right behind Trump and a chimpanzee. He literally need a translator. I don't understand 90% of what he says, but then I only have a Master degree in computers and Mathematics.

I suspect Pinel dropped out every English class he attended.

Quote
I have owned a few Morich balls and wasn't impressed. Not bad balls, but there are better options. If Mo is so much smarter than everyone else in bowling, why was his company such a dismal failure? Why wasn't every bowler using his stuff if it was so great?

Because he is not and never has been a businessman. His arrogance is beyond comprehension. I can't even believe he got someone, as rational and with as much common sense as Phil, to agree to work with him. Maybe Brunswick made Phil some promises?

Quote
It's the same with the Lane #1 guy, if the products are so much better(as they claim), then why aren't more bowlers buying their stuff?

Let's not bring Ritchie ("Ignorance is Bliss") Sposato into this discussion.

This may be a little off the topic. Many years ago a buddy of mine had a pro shop. We decided to go to mo's seminar on the ninja I believe. Mo was so far over everybodies head that I turned to my buddy and said WTF lol.
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charlest

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Re: So Urethane is just a crutch that ruins the shot
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2017, 07:18:11 PM »
Quote from: milorafferty on December 05, 2017, 04:57:40 PM
Quote from: charlest on December 05, 2017, 04:30:33 PM
Quote from: milorafferty on December 05, 2017, 01:34:06 PM
Quote from: HackJandy on December 05, 2017, 01:29:37 PM
True Mo did make one of the best urethane ball back in the day (Sumo) so yeah I am sure 25 years later he could do something pretty amazing.

I seem to be the only person who doesn't "get" Mo.


Because he is not and never has been a businessman. His arrogance is beyond comprehension. I can't even believe he got someone, as rational and with as much common sense as Phil, to agree to work with him. Maybe Brunswick made Phil some promises?



I haven't met either of the guys in person, but the few times I've read post from them, they both seem like giant "Richards".

I have met Pinel when he supposed to give us lessons. He was more interested in selling flats of MoRich balls than in coaching us as part of a pro shop seminar in selling Morich balls.
FYI he measured my PAP as 2 3/4" over x 0" up, when every other pro shop and I, myself, have measured me as 5" over, 0" up. Not sure what hangover he had when he did that  but it wasn't conducive to sales or a good impression.

Quote
So you are suggesting that Brunswick did the equivalent of tying a pork chop around Mo's neck to get the dog(Phil in this case) to play with him?  ;D ;D

I would have to assume so, based on both Phil's and Pinel's reputations.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 07:20:44 PM by charlest »
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charlest

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Re: So Urethane is just a crutch that ruins the shot
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2017, 07:23:30 PM »
Quote from: tburky on December 05, 2017, 06:04:26 PM
Quote from: charlest on December 05, 2017, 04:30:33 PM
Quote from: milorafferty on December 05, 2017, 01:34:06 PM
Quote from: HackJandy on December 05, 2017, 01:29:37 PM
True Mo did make one of the best urethane ball back in the day (Sumo) so yeah I am sure 25 years later he could do something pretty amazing.

I seem to be the only person who doesn't "get" Mo.

No, you are not. I don't get the adulation he receives for 95% of his balls. I will agree that 2-5% of them were ground breaking.

Quote
I keep hearing how great his stuff was, how innovative he is and that his knowledge is second to none.

His knowledge and creativity are 2nd to none; his ability to communicate his ideas rate right behind Trump and a chimpanzee. He literally need a translator. I don't understand 90% of what he says, but then I only have a Master degree in computers and Mathematics.

I suspect Pinel dropped out every English class he attended.

Quote
I have owned a few Morich balls and wasn't impressed. Not bad balls, but there are better options. If Mo is so much smarter than everyone else in bowling, why was his company such a dismal failure? Why wasn't every bowler using his stuff if it was so great?

Because he is not and never has been a businessman. His arrogance is beyond comprehension. I can't even believe he got someone, as rational and with as much common sense as Phil, to agree to work with him. Maybe Brunswick made Phil some promises?

Quote
It's the same with the Lane #1 guy, if the products are so much better(as they claim), then why aren't more bowlers buying their stuff?

Let's not bring Ritchie ("Ignorance is Bliss") Sposato into this discussion.

This may be a little off the topic. Many years ago a buddy of mine had a pro shop. We decided to go to mo's seminar on the ninja I believe. Mo was so far over everybody's head that I turned to my buddy and said WTF lol.

He requires a personal translator, as I said above, or a dose of antabuse.
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HackJandy

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Re: So Urethane is just a crutch that ruins the shot
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2017, 09:12:51 PM »
And yet the thread started of something semi dumb Phil said lol.  All that said Ritchie is a whole other level of douche nozzle.  Nothing I have seen of Mo online where I thought anything but perhaps socially awkward and maybe a little full of himself but Ritchie often comes across as a complete asshat.  Maybe he isn't and he did give something to the bowling world I suppose so probably best not to throw dog poop I guess but too late.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 09:17:51 PM by HackJandy »
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JamminJD

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Re: So Urethane is just a crutch that ruins the shot
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2017, 11:26:47 PM »
Met Phil and Mo several times. Mo needs  a lot of patience and willing to agree with him.
Phil is genuinely a nice guy, yes he can be staunch or strong willed sometimes but all in all he seems to mean well. I think they both bring things to the table that help, but I’m sure it’s interesting sometimes....
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bowler100

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Re: So Urethane is just a crutch that ruins the shot
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2017, 12:24:55 AM »
Quote from: Impending Doom on December 05, 2017, 02:39:36 PM
Mo's early offerings were great. I had a 3d offset super hook and Sledgehammer, both were out of this world. So when Morich started, I tried a Colossus. Hated it. Gave it away. Tried an Awesome Hook and Awesome Revs. Gave the Hook away and gave the Revs to my brother.

Mo's problem is that he thinks more is better. More intermediate diff, more flare, more engine, more everything!

But sometimes, less is more. As much as I loved my Network, .030 intermediate diff is too much. .025 is pushing it. Ritchie had the same problem with the DIFFERENCE. Too much.

Lane 1 had some killers as well, but they were all with the weaker Brunswick covers. The 900 Global covers sucked on the cores, and there is only so much you can do with one core shape.
I know this is beside the point you were making but what exactly was people's beef with the Morich line of balls? Did they tend to puke too much for a lot of bowlers? 
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MI 2 AZ

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Re: So Urethane is just a crutch that ruins the shot
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2017, 12:36:12 AM »
Quote from: Aloarjr810 on December 05, 2017, 10:07:11 AM
Phil Cardinale's did a FB live feed shot on Dec. 1st in it he tells what he thinks about urethane and why Radical won't have a urethane ball (at least at the moment).


See about the 17min. mark
https://www.facebook.com/radical.bowling.technologies/videos/1490117054441795/

basically it boiled down to

1-Radical won't have a Urethane (Right Now)
2-People use Urethane as a crutch.
3-You can use a resin ball with a mild drilling and a surface change and it won't ruin the shot as bad as Urethane will.
4-But if your on Radical staff and you want to use Urethane Brunswick makes real good ones.

Phil needs to have the video not be a mirror image so that his company name will be easily read.  :)
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