Okay I think the train has got off the tracks and is starting to burn.

Just a little side note on the 3 unit minimum.  That rule came out after quite a bit of study by the ABC.  Unfortunately for the ABC resin balls made their appearance shortly after the 3 unit rule.  They probably should have gon to something lik e 5-6 units in light of new technologies.

If you go back and listen again you will find I didn't say urethane was a crutch, I said people use it as a crutch. you also left out the part where I eluded to them saying when they bowl bad they say they had to use urethane especially in league. That was the crutch, not the ball the excuse.

Okay, I listened again "people say "Well I'm throwing a urethane ball' and you said "Big deal""

I don't see how that eludes to them saying when they bowl bad they saying they had to use urethane  especially in league as a excuse for bowling bad.

Maybe instead of eluding to things, just come right out and say it.

Of I course I understand you have to watch what you say, you don't want to alienate any possible customers.

Plus you probably can't say something like "The majority of players don't need a Urethane ball and shouldn't buy them." because of company restrictions you maybe under that limit what youy can say in public that might impact somebodies sales or Radicals should you decide produce one in the future.

My opinion, i am entitled to have one,

Yes, You are entitled to a opinion no one said you weren't.

apparently everyone on the internet does.

I'm guessing that's a allusion to something, that we probably shouldn't come right out and say about people on  the internet.

Part 2 was that there are low strength resin balls that can be drilled to roll like urethane that wont blow open the pattern. That's a fact we have done tests and studies.

As for Urethane ruining the shot, Resin balls ruin a shot too. Just in a different way, for somebody else.

Learn to adjust to the conditions, don't complain about the guy ahead of you and how he didn't leave perfect conditions that suited your shot.

To many players today expect pristine conditions every time they make a shot.

If they don't get those perfect condition's, then that's their excuse (how ever they felt it was caused) for their bowling bad "Their crutch"

Urethane balls for the average customer, average league bowler is a novelty, most did not bowl with urethane when it first came out so it's new to them.

An just to note, I'm by no means a great bowler or have ever claimed to be. But I've been around a long time, see a lot and heard lot, I started out with polyester, my first urethane was a Angle LD and several others after that (in fact I still have my Org. Faball Burgundy Hammer from back in the day.).

I'm far from a 240 average boarder, but I will insist that carry down does exist. I don't care what anyone says. But it doesn't exist in most shots that people see.

Of course there's carrydown, all anyone has to do is walk down the lanes after a league and look.

The real debate is whether or not it's enough to affect modern bowling balls.

Carry Down definitely still exists even is some leagues. This season I bowl in a for fun small mixed 5 person league where one team 3 bowlers use plastic and carry down does happen. Not necessarily a bad thing for me every time as I think I had my best nite in that league 1 of 2 times we bowled them as I didn't have to migrate as far left in the last game as most nites in this particular house.

Quote from: lilpossum1 on December 07, 2017, 06:07:53 PM

I'm far from a 240 average boarder, but I will insist that carry down does exist. I don't care what anyone says. But it doesn't exist in most shots that people see. I bowl in a house with wooden lanes where the oil machine doesn't strip. They strip fully on Wednesdays, back 10 or 15' on Thursdays, and never again. Because of the wooden lanes, the volume is pretty decent to start with. And it keeps building night after night in the heads and mids, except for what the reactivate balls take off. If they get a little of open bowling, the plastic house balls carry down a lot of oil by the time sunday rolls around. Pun completely intended. With fresh heads, there are times we can barely get a ball to wiggle or finish. But these are all conditions that are perfect to create the carry down. 99.99999% of bowlers will never see a scenario to create those conditions, especially not with any regularity.

For league probably. I will also readily admit open bowling after a birthday party yes you may well see some shot affecting carry down since they dont make 6lb Sure Locks.

Carry Down definitely still exists even is some leagues. This season I bowl in a for fun small mixed 5 person league where one team 3 bowlers use plastic and carry down does happen. Not necessarily a bad thing for me every time as I think I had my best nite in that league 1 of 2 times we bowled them as I didn't have to migrate as far left in the last game as most nites in this particular house.

Quote from: HackJandy on December 07, 2017, 07:16:14 PM

Quote from: lilpossum1 on December 07, 2017, 06:07:53 PM

I'm far from a 240 average boarder, but I will insist that carry down does exist. I don't care what anyone says. But it doesn't exist in most shots that people see. I bowl in a house with wooden lanes where the oil machine doesn't strip. They strip fully on Wednesdays, back 10 or 15' on Thursdays, and never again. Because of the wooden lanes, the volume is pretty decent to start with. And it keeps building night after night in the heads and mids, except for what the reactivate balls take off. If they get a little of open bowling, the plastic house balls carry down a lot of oil by the time sunday rolls around. Pun completely intended. With fresh heads, there are times we can barely get a ball to wiggle or finish. But these are all conditions that are perfect to create the carry down. 99.99999% of bowlers will never see a scenario to create those conditions, especially not with any regularity.

For league probably. I will also readily admit open bowling after a birthday party yes you may well see some shot affecting carry down since they dont make 6lb Sure Locks.

Which is kind of my point.  Urethane does affect the shot some but it doesn't destroy it especially if a bowler is capable of adjusting at all.  Modern reactive bowling balls handle late light oil much better than early friction generally.

Very good points juggernaut.  I made s bit of a long winded post in another thread chronicling what you just said.  Carrydown impacts urethane ball reaction much more than it impacts resin

I think you guys hit it square. When I use urethane, after the heads begin to go and there is some hold, I find myself moving right into the dry while the resin users that can throw it are moving left.

On a fresh shot I have to play more direct but don’t see the urethane doing nearly as much damage to the fresh as the super soaker resins.