Author Topic: Embrace or not to embace? that is the question.. (Read 1617 times)

Rantings · « **on:** March 27, 2004, 12:18:06 AM »

Technology that is. Bowlers are crying about technology ruining the game but watching golf today I hear more golfers now embracing the new technology though in the past some voiced opposition. Why not bowlers?
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Bowling is for sissies..ask Bones...

pin-chaser · « **Reply #1 on:** March 27, 2004, 03:34:20 PM »

Rantings, given equal talent of two players, the one using technology has a distinct advantage. As well, the player "matching up" (choosing the correct ball for the condition) has an advantage even over a more talented bowler.

Plain and simple, if you dont use it, you have little chance to be competitive.
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Getting all the pins I can.

Rantings · « **Reply #2 on:** March 27, 2004, 04:26:46 PM »

P-C, Agree.

BUT why are many crying the game is being ruined by technology? do you agree or disagree?

Some even blame it on the decline of bowling while golf embraces the change and grows.
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Bowling is for sissies..ask Bones...

pin-chaser · « **Reply #3 on:** March 27, 2004, 05:44:55 PM »

It was not safe to ask me THAT question... but SINCE you did...
And I will try to be as short as I can.

Your presumption is that bowling is a sport, I dont think that is a universally accepted concept across the sporting world.

I agree that the game has changed signficantly from one of accuracy through physical repetition to one of maximum power and the allowing and/or taking advantage of area that is intentionally given. In order to do take more advantage of this area, lane surfaces, bowling balls and bowling pins have all been modified. Synthetic lane surfaces and bowling balls (through several enhancements) have combined to increase friction, which increases entry angle, produces less deflection and opens up (creates more mistake room) the lane. Pins have become lighter and double voided making them topple significantly easier.

You can argue enhancements in every sport threaten them as well. But the integrity of the sports remain with the requirement that thier participants maintain a level of skill. In no other sport, can the technical advances of technology completely out weight the skills of the participant. This has been assured by thier governing bodies... ie., oversized tennis racquets are used by professionals, the super long flying golf ball isnt allow by professionals, basketballs are getting smaller for professionals.

However in bowling, the "sport" has become converted to nearly one single factor... "matching up". The best physical bowler, the one who can repeat shots with the most accuracy and consistantcy is frequently out scored by someone who has much less skills but correctly identifies the correct shell surface, layout and weight block for the condition that is present. Because of this "match up" the lesser "physically talented" bowlers can carry significantly better and create almost unmissable area.

So does choosing the correct equipement make bowling a sport? You might argue that is does in golf as there are many choices. However, in golf (and I am limited in knowledge) professionals determine the proper flex of shaft as determined by swing speed, determine a type of metal prefered and stick with that equipement for long periods of time. While having the correct choices of equipement if golf surely makes a huge impact for the professionals, it is the skill required to swing them that makes the golfer. The golfer does not have 8,10,12 sets of clubs all different and is required to use them in order to "match up" to courses.

Bowlings equipement simply plays too important a role is this "sport". Want some proof... despite the reduction of ABC/WIBC/YABA membership of over 50% in the last 7 years, award scores of 300,299,298,800 have increased 200%. Half the bowlers and twice the scores... If we look further back in time, it gets worse. Lets look at records, I have compiled a spread sheet detailing the records for, men, women, yaba, singles, team game, team series and 97% of all records for all states have been re-established in the past 7 years. Bowling has been america's most participated indoor sport, it has been here since 1890's... but 97% of ALL records have been established in the last 7 years despite the lowest number or participants since the 1920's.

Yes bowling is declining, a chart would suggest that if it continues its current rate, bowling could end completely in about 7 years. Of course that wont happen there are to many of us purists that will continue no matter what. Is there anyway that we can prove that the cause is the rampant scoring. NO. Do I think that it is, No. However, I have to believe that when bowlers are able to shoot 300 and average 200 within 6 months or a year of starting that the easiness of the "sport" has a direct impact as to wether bowlers are retained long term. There is more open play bowling than ever and fewer leagues. Arent leagues competition. If we made the basketball hoop larger, how long would professional basketball remain? If we tilted fairways, tilted greens and made the holes twice as large how long would it survive.

Ok...enough... you see my point. Sorry for this...but you asked for it.

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Getting all the pins I can.

pin-chaser · « **Reply #4 on:** March 27, 2004, 10:41:43 PM »

Bones, I bow to you. You are certianly correct in your opinion that some bowlers are not taking full advantage of the equipement. That only servs as further evidence that scoring is out of control when some bowlers are not recieving there full benifit from todays equipement. Pro Shop operators surely do a much better job today than in previous decades at matching balls, layouts and grips to bowlers when they are given the opportunity to do so.

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Getting all the pins I can.

tenpinspro · « **Reply #5 on:** March 28, 2004, 09:39:48 AM »

Thank you Pin-chaser,

quote:
Pro Shop operators surely do a much better job today than in previous decades at matching balls, layouts and grips to bowlers when they are given the opportunity to do so.

I was there 20-25 years ago when it wasn't as difficult. Now the job has become very technical and you have to have an open mind and a ton of flexibility in matching an individual to a piece of equipment.
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Rantings,

The crying is coming from bowlers whose talent can or has been surpassed by others because of technology. Imagine the NCGA didn't stop it at titanium and manufacturers could actually make clubs now that hit the ball 500 yards. You don't think Tiger and all the pros would complain? They wouldn't be special anymore because of their length and skills, now every hack(like me) could go out there and utilize this club to their advantage. Try to imagine Tiger with a half swing trying to hit this club and trying to be accurate at it would be tremendously difficult. Well, that's what the guys who could hook with plastic and urethane now feel and end up having to do with the newer technology, half lifting/stroking and so on...

Smash49 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 28, 2004, 10:32:30 AM »

Bowling is a goal oriented sport! As long as we keep score people will try to find out how to score more than the other guy. It's human nature to find a better way. Until the game becomes no challenge people will continue to do it. Look at NASCAR or Indycar racing. Every year the sanctioning bodies try to find a way to slow the cars down for safety and never succeed. Speeds in the 1930's around 110 mph now on the verge of 250 mph. To not embrace technology can also have an equally bad effect by limiting bowling's growth. Where would we be today if pin boys were still setting pins for 10 cents a game.

Smash49
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Smash49
robert@bowlersslidesock.com
Bowler's Slide Sock: Reduces or eliminates problems with Slick OR Tacky approaches.
www.bowlersslidesock.com

Juggernaut · « **Reply #7 on:** March 28, 2004, 11:40:03 AM »

I must chime in on this. In the past I have blamed equipment (ie..ball) technology for lots of the maladies today. They have made scoring a far less daunting task for the underskilled.

However, looking at the replies in this thread made me think. It's not just the balls, it's the lane conditions also. An earlier post made a referrence to older technology balls. I would gladly still use one today.

The black turbo was my favorite, followed closely by the black,red, and blue hammers ( not to mention the pink hammer of short oil days!). Sadly though, for the majority to use the new, high flaring balls, the house I bowl in now uses as much oil for ONE PAIR of lanes as they used to use for 1/2 the house(8 lanes)! That means there is at least 8 TIMES the oil there used to be.

Now while the blue hammers were aggressive, even they won't cut through the carrydown created by this much oil. I can (and occasionally still do) use one for the first game when the backends are fresh, but towards the end of game one, you can see the old blue starting to fade, and no adjusting helps for long. The carrydown just eats the old, low flaring balls alive.

Yes, I have tried a flaring urethane ( ie. stingray,stingray/c,thunderflash, etc...) but they hooked too early when dull and not enough bite in the carrydown when polished. So I am left with this choice-ADAPT OR DIE!

I remember when "crank was king". I learned to bowl by emulating my heroes like Mark Roth, Bob Handley and the likes. Now the game has changed and so has the players consistently making the winners circle. You will see the occasional cranker, and I too have my good days, but more often than not it will be a powerstroker or a tweener that you have to look out for.
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Just call me Darreyl, it's much easier to say!

pin-chaser · « **Reply #8 on:** March 28, 2004, 04:35:45 PM »

Bones, let me try to explain my point but it is subtle and a prime example was last years world championships first match between between weber and mika. Weber flushed 11 shots... physically bowled as perfect as a human can... yet lost to mika, who missed several pocket shots but strung together a turkey in the middle. I know that mika is a GREAT GREAT bowler but that match, and most matches come down to matching equipement and NOT physical skill. As well, todays equipement in more likely to cause a less talented bowler to stike and give a physically better bowler a tap. The higher the scores get, the more likely today that a bad break will loose the match for the better bowler while the power players are more likely to to strike. It is not simply a matter of accepting higher scores, if the odds were even that the better bowler would win, then yes it is that simple. But as the scores get higher the odds swing more in favor of the less accurate bowlers. Just look at who wins tournaments. The odds have swung so far in that direction. And you know what I am talking about.

Jaberwacky, In 1977-1980 I bowled in a center that had the largest top at ever. 3 passes with the lane machine of 10 to 10 and NO oil placed outside of 10. Blocking lanes has ALWAYS been around. Even when the BUDWIESERS shot there infamous 3858 the track was evident due to shalac but there was oil placed inside of the track too. While lane conditions have become very technical and inherently very consistant, todays balls simply take better advantge of them then ever before. The fact is, if you put out a tough shot, it is possible that the condition would change into something very easy by a couple players working together. I agree using lane conditioner to alter the path of balls to create area is and always has hurt bowling integrity. However, there is nothing that can be done about that today.

Alaskabill, I agree with you that lifestyle is a major factor in the reduction of league bowlers. Economics and the less williness to commit to long leagues needs to be addressed to lure and retain bowlers. The evidence of this is that, while league patronage is down, open play has never been better. We need to find away to convince open play bowlers to join leagues.
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Getting all the pins I can.

nd300 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 28, 2004, 07:26:27 PM »

I can remember a time when getting a sub was almost impossible to do because evryone was on a team of 5 people-and no one missed a night the whole season!!!!!!!!!
Now it's commonplace to have a 6,7,or 8 man roster so that you can have a night off or someone to call when you have to work late or a family event to attend. I guess that is good in the sense of family being important but it also gives rise to the flip side........
It used to be that wives stayed home with the kids so that Dad could have his night out with the guys, but with women's liberation and the new concept of almost instant divorce if things aren't perfect at home you can see why league numbers are down and open play is up. Families are bowling together and for Dad to have a night out is a concept that has accounted for the afore mentioned decline in numbers.
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Chris

pin-chaser · « **Reply #10 on:** March 29, 2004, 01:23:07 PM »

Bones,
u
You were/are a doctor. Medicines were developed to cure disease, your statement, exept it or give up would mean that there would be no penicilin...

If something is wrong, it is wrong. If humanity simply accepts whats before them we ignor our future. Certianly bowling is in decline, the Integrity of the sport is loosing more ground every year. I wont begin to say, that bowlings losses are directly related to scoring however I think everyone concurs that it is one of many reasons. While in this tread you here me complaining about scoring, in other I complain about other things that are contributing.

If something is wrong it needs fixing, despite all opposition. For heaven sakes, when I make a mistake I take ownership, make it right at all costs. That is what needs to happen with the scoring pace today in bowling. Hard choices need to be made, all voices need to be heard in order to determine a suitable path. My personal bowling days are past, (even though this weekend i shot 260,300,279=839 because of TECHNOLOGY). Sure it was fun to average 256 over 8 games because of Technology. But that in itself does not make it right. I made mistakes, plenty of them. When you can make mistakes and still score it isnt right, that isnt a sport. It takes skill to be a sport and the reduction of that skill by techonology invalidates the sport.
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Getting all the pins I can.

Rantings · « **Reply #11 on:** March 29, 2004, 01:44:24 PM »

P-C,

I didn't presume that bowling is a sport..you presumed I presumed but I didn't presume. The game is what I said...

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Bowling is for sissies..ask Bones...

Edited on 3/29/2004 2:38 PM

pin-chaser · « **Reply #12 on:** March 29, 2004, 02:07:59 PM »

IceEmQuick,

You opinion has equal weight to mine. I completely agree with you that societal changes play a signifificant role in the reduction of league bowlers. As well, there are many many other contributing factors. As I stated, scoring is just one and maybe not the most significant. This thread is about scroing and technologies and the acceptance of the way things are.

And while you are happy to accept them and encourage more, I see what has happened over the 30+ years I have bowled as a negitive effect on the big picture of bowling. If everybody accepted the way things are today, would it get any better? I think we will still loose as many bolwers or more. IF we fix the problem of technology, do I think that will solve bowlings wow's? No, I still think bowling will continue to dwindle.

In many leagues several 300's are shot each night. In many leagues, 800's are shot regularly. Although it has not reached the level that convinces you, it has reached levels that have convinced many.

I do agree with you also, that I am offended that I cannot compete with bowlers of today and their ability to utilize equipment to offset there inherent lack of skill. It has made a mockery of my lifestime spent studying and honing my physcal bowling prowess. I understand the differences in the eras of bowling and I accept it. I am making modifications in my physical game to take advantage of todays technology and quite frankly it is fun. But I will take my 300 back in 1977 and my 800 in 1979 to the grave with me as a testiment to my bowling ability. The 857 I shot 3 years ago, the 5 x 300 and 3 x 800 I shot in the last 9 months, I just done care about. It was fun, but it did not require skill.
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Getting all the pins I can.

hotwire13 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 29, 2004, 03:30:24 PM »

icemquick...u are definitely right...the lanes themselves dictate how they need to be played. but everyone should remember that technology is part of the game today...if u are unwilling to learn and adjust to the technical aspects of the game, then everyone that is willing will pass u right by. 15 years ago, bowling was all individual ability competing with not too many equipment differences. today, bowling has become a much more level playing field(most lane conditions) that determines better bowlers according to their equipment choices and decisions on how to attack the lane. its a completely different game today. certain houses may have high scores, and others will have lower ones, but when u mix bowlers from both houses on a neutral condition, the best ones will be whoever makes the right decisions on equipment and laneplay. 15 years ago, doing this same experiment would probably not yield the same type of results because equipment and lane conditions were for the most part, similar. the "better" bowlers almost always were determined by just their physical ability. my father tells me this all the time...u bowl on a flood, theres oil everywhere, and all u can do is survive and make spares. today, taht would put u at the bottom of the rankings. technology has not ruined the game - it has CHANGED teh game...bowlers can decide whether they think its for the better.
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Erik Olsen - e13ez85@hotmail.com

pin-chaser · « **Reply #14 on:** March 29, 2004, 07:08:56 PM »

IceEmQuick,

Your thoughts are not flawed because they are your true thoughts and I respect them 100%. I have talked to many thousands of people about this issue and have heard alot of the theories... one that I think might have more to do with things than I orginally though.

Bowlings hey day from a popularity and membership stand point was in the 60's. Maybe not so incidentaly that would be about 20 years after WWII and dead center in the baby boom. There was a surplus of people then and those bowlers have been leaving the sport over the last 15 years. This could very well be a significant factor in the reduction. Perhaps not all but perhaps a significant.

And I guess that is the crux of my issue. Bowling has not done enough research into why this is happening to our sport, or at least has not shared this information. I have spent the last 6 months looking at numbers and information. I am not an expert but I care about this sport. I am starting a website soon, very soon, that will provide alot of information. Information of all types. For anyone interested once it is online I will give out the site.

I want to be sure that anyone, who reads my opinions in these threads understand that I am a nobody and my voice is no more important than anyone elses. Everyones voice needs to be heard and understood if we are to reutrn bowling back to the heydays. That is my goal.. and the more I learn the better I understand.
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Getting all the pins I can.

Author Topic: Embrace or not to embace? that is the question.. (Read 1617 times)

Rantings

Embrace or not to embace? that is the question..

pin-chaser

Re: Embrace or not to embace? that is the question..

Rantings

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pin-chaser

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pin-chaser

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tenpinspro

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Smash49

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Juggernaut

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pin-chaser

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nd300

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pin-chaser

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Rantings

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pin-chaser

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hotwire13

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pin-chaser

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