Post by: KDawg77 on July 10, 2007, 03:22:19 AM
"Bottom line from the people at USBC is that they are going to make bowling a sport vice a recreational event that it has been most of these years. Yes the talk is with USBC making all lanes use the sport shot.
This info came from the USBC annual meeting that Rick Fortin attended.
Bowling is going to be fashioned after the sport of golf and tennis.
I think there is more on bowl.com."
Back to me: I can't imagine going all sport shot. Yikes!
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Post by: Eddie M on July 10, 2007, 11:28:54 AM
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Post by: FastTracker33 on July 10, 2007, 11:33:20 AM
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Post by: KDawg77 on July 10, 2007, 11:35:32 AM
, but I can't wrap my brain around why every league would end up that way when there are so many that has bowlers who don't want anything besides some organized recreation out of the game.--------------------
Texas is neither southern nor western. Texas is Texas - Senator William Blakley
http://www.myspace.com/lefthandedhammerpride
http://members.bowl.com/FindAMember/memberView.aspx?mp=418&ms=2006&s=2006-2007
Post by: Kinalyx on July 10, 2007, 11:42:44 AM
Bowling, just like everything else, is a business. If they went to a sport shot in every single league, about 60+% of bowlers would quit. Imagine if the house hack....u know the guy, basically lives in the bowling alley, works there, only bowls in the 1 center, but averages 230. This is the guy that wont bowl anything outside of the center, cause he averages 180 elsewhere. These people will quit all together.
The number of people that want a challenge on the lanes is an insanely small number in comparison to the guys that want to bowl 1 league a week & average 190-200.
I think a better idea to make bowling more of a sport, is to make sure that every center has at least ONE sport shot/PBA league. We have 1 sport league in all of houston as far as i know. There is another center that will put out PBA & regional shots on certain days for practice, but not in league.
Shawn
Post by: shelley on July 10, 2007, 11:42:56 AM
I realize there's nothing stopping a house from putting down a compliant shot for inspection, then putting down a different shot for leagues. Yes, they could do it still if sport conditions are mandated. But it's simple enough to create a really easy compliant shot that you don't have to tinker with it to keep your house bowlers happy. Sport shots are a different story.
If they're going to change the scoring by changing the conditions, a little at a time will go a long way. It's 3 units this year, make it five next year. Eight the year after that. Scores might come down a little bit in the cake houses, but maybe not so much that you drive your bowlers away. It's called getting your foot in the door, and people don't mind that nearly as much as they mind getting their door busted down with a Sherman tank.
SH
Post by: ThongPrincess on July 10, 2007, 12:00:59 PM
Even if they go to all leagues being Sport, centers will run non-sanctioned leagues for the recreational bowler. They will set up their own awards programs and bowlers will not lose out. It will limit the number of bowlers at Nationals and other sanctioned tournaments since they require sanction as part of elegibility. Yes a bowler could purchase a sanction card, but would not have a sanctioned average to use. It could get very interesting.
It will also be interesting to see what happens when the new leadership takes office next month. There will be a new President (or whatever they call him)who comes from the BPAA.
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USBC Bronze Coach
"I cannot change the direction of the wind but I can adjust my sails to reach my destination." Jimmy Dean
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Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on July 10, 2007, 12:06:14 PM
quote:
Couple "gotta be a sport shot" with the new "inspect the lanes once every four or five years" policy and they can't figure out what they want.
I asked this question in the other thread but no one seemed to answer. I am wondering if their new super-cush inspection policy even applies to the sport conditions.
If they are going to go all sport conditions, which would be a good thing, it's possible that this inspection policy would only apply to the old thing that they are phasing out anyway.
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Those who know what's best for us must rise and save us from ourselves.
Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on July 10, 2007, 12:07:15 PM
quote:
There will be a new President (or whatever they call him)who comes from the BPAA.
What's his name?
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Those who know what's best for us must rise and save us from ourselves.
Post by: no300tj on July 10, 2007, 12:22:27 PM
Post by: another300 on July 10, 2007, 12:40:58 PM
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"If you fail to try...you have already failed"
Post by: ThongPrincess on July 10, 2007, 12:59:05 PM
quote:
What's his name?
Jeff Boje who, according to BJI May issue, is "the first proprietor to hold that job, as well as the first BPAA Ex-President."
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USBC Bronze Coach
"I cannot change the direction of the wind but I can adjust my sails to reach my destination." Jimmy Dean
Quaker 10/93 - 4/07
Quaker (http://"http://thongprincess.bowlspace.com/gallery/view_gallery.one?gal_id=1")
Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on July 10, 2007, 01:14:20 PM
quote:
Jeff Boje who, according to BJI May issue, is "the first proprietor to hold that job, as well as the first BPAA Ex-President."
Ah ha. Thanks for confirming that. Someone in my fall league told me that he was going to be the new USBC president or whatever and I assumed they didn't know what they were talking about.
All I can say about the guy is that he has a really nice bowling center with good leagues. I actually heard they were starting to build a second bowling center in the area as well which should be excellent. In the league meetings he seemed like a really nice guy that was interested in the success of the leagues. I have to say that his bowling center is probably my favorite in the area. Nice lanes, the best approaches, good league oil pattern (actual oil on the lane), tight ship. Now what goes on behind the scenes who knows, but as a customer and league bowler I have to say it is my favorite place to go.
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Those who know what's best for us must rise and save us from ourselves.
Post by: ThongPrincess on July 10, 2007, 01:24:35 PM
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USBC Bronze Coach
"I cannot change the direction of the wind but I can adjust my sails to reach my destination." Jimmy Dean
Quaker 10/93 - 4/07
Quaker (http://"http://thongprincess.bowlspace.com/gallery/view_gallery.one?gal_id=1")
Edited on 7/10/2007 2:23 PM
Post by: six pack on July 10, 2007, 01:39:57 PM
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I'll give up my NO MERCY when they pry it from my cold dead hands.
Post by: Atochabsh on July 10, 2007, 02:19:41 PM
quote:
but I can't wrap my brain around why every league would end up that way when there are so many that has bowlers who don't want anything besides some organized recreation out of the game.
Me niether. Especially when USBC just said we don't have to do zero lineage checks anymore. How are they going to make sure that each league has a sport condition on it? Many small associations don't even have the equipment to do that or the newer oilers to put the pattern out.
Erin
Post by: Atochabsh on July 10, 2007, 02:20:36 PM
quote:
but I can't wrap my brain around why every league would end up that way when there are so many that has bowlers who don't want anything besides some organized recreation out of the game.
Me niether. Especially when USBC just said we don't have to do zero lineage checks anymore. How are they going to make sure that each league has a sport condition on it? Many small associations don't even have the equipment to do that or the newer oilers to put the pattern out.
Erin
Post by: shelley on July 10, 2007, 02:31:54 PM
quote:
Will a bowler feel a sense of accomplishment when he/she shoots an honor score during a non-sport league session this season?
Not to get off track, but I sure as heck will. I don't care what the conditions are, none of my balls have given me a 300.
SH
Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on July 10, 2007, 02:38:13 PM
quote:Quotebut I can't wrap my brain around why every league would end up that way when there are so many that has bowlers who don't want anything besides some organized recreation out of the game.
What I can't understand is why you can't organize and have fun while still bowling on these conditions. I have only been bowling for little more than a year and it's actually not that bad. Yes, the number will go down but it is just a number. It's still bowling and your friends are still there.
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Those who know what's best for us must rise and save us from ourselves.
Post by: KDawg77 on July 10, 2007, 02:41:40 PM
quote:quote:Quotebut I can't wrap my brain around why every league would end up that way when there are so many that has bowlers who don't want anything besides some organized recreation out of the game.
What I can't understand is why you can't organize and have fun while still bowling on these conditions. I have only been bowling for little more than a year and it's actually not that bad. Yes, the number will go down but it is just a number. It's still bowling and your friends are still there.
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Those who know what's best for us must rise and save us from ourselves.
Fluff,
You and I know many bowlers with delusions of grandeur and will probably quit if the conditions are soft like many houses are right now. Unlike me, who knows he's general a 160-170 average on a sport shot and can be a 200+ on THS. I'll take my lumps, but many prima donnas won't
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Texas is neither southern nor western. Texas is Texas - Senator William Blakley
http://www.myspace.com/lefthandedhammerpride
http://members.bowl.com/FindAMember/memberView.aspx?mp=418&ms=2006&s=2006-2007
Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on July 10, 2007, 02:53:05 PM
quote:
Fluff,
You and I know many bowlers with delusions of grandeur and will probably quit if the conditions are soft like many houses are right now. Unlike me, who knows he's general a 160-170 average on a sport shot and can be a 200+ on THS. I'll take my lumps, but many prima donnas won't
Yeah but let's take that guy who you say will quit. If every other bowler is going through the same thing they won't be the only one having problems right? If they really love bowling, I don't think they would quit. Or at least, I don't think they would be able to stay away for long.
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Those who know what's best for us must rise and save us from ourselves.
Post by: freak761 on July 10, 2007, 03:59:50 PM
I'm all for it, after all what's the point of averaging a 220+ on an easy THS and going to a tourney and barely being able to toss a 500 series. If throwing on a sport shot all the time will make me a better bowler and make the leagues more competitive, to me that's what it's all about. Yeah, some guys will quit, and some will complain a lot, but it will be better in the long run. I know guys that can barely break a 90 in 18 holes of golf but they LOVE it and when they bowl a 160 game they HATE bowling. Go figure!
Post by: alloutsmith3 on July 10, 2007, 04:01:38 PM
quote:
once again, another idea that will never happen.
Bowling, just like everything else, is a business. If they went to a sport shot in every single league, about 60+% of bowlers would quit. Imagine if the house hack....u know the guy, basically lives in the bowling alley, works there, only bowls in the 1 center, but averages 230. This is the guy that wont bowl anything outside of the center, cause he averages 180 elsewhere. These people will quit all together.
The number of people that want a challenge on the lanes is an insanely small number in comparison to the guys that want to bowl 1 league a week & average 190-200.
I think a better idea to make bowling more of a sport, is to make sure that every center has at least ONE sport shot/PBA league. We have 1 sport league in all of houston as far as i know. There is another center that will put out PBA & regional shots on certain days for practice, but not in league.
Shawn
I agree with this. I love bowling on sport conditions but 95% of the other bowlers in my area don't. I would like to see them do the one mandatory sport league though, the closest sport league to me is around 100 plus miles away.
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Jason Smith
ABC North Lanes Pro Shop
Harrisburg, PA
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Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on July 11, 2007, 07:55:17 AM
quote:
Most others are there to have fun.
I can safely say that the PBA Experience league is quite fun and no I am not a top average bowler. There is a shot there you just can't spray it all over the place. I don't see why that is a bad thing or not fun. I think it is more fun when you have to actually focus on what you are doing. If most people would just try it they would probably find that they like it as well.
quote:
On the other hand, sport shots are going to make it so the 185-200 average bowlers are NEVER competitive with the better players.
While I will agree that the top guys on THS seem to still be the top guys in the sport conditions (for the most part-not all) only with lower averages, I disagree that 185-200 average bowlers will NEVER compete with them. I have definitely beaten the crap out of guys who previously averaged 40+ pins higher than me on these PBA shots week after week. The difference is that they can't string as many strikes together and they get dinged with splits they can't make. This brings them back down to a beatable level. If you can stay clean and keep getting good pocket hits, you can actually win. On this type of shot it seems more like an accuracy and consistency contest instead of a revs contest to me. I am just tired of losing to people on THS shots that have weak form and balance and just rev the crap out of the ball and let the lane do the work. Revs and accuracy? Ok, you deserve to win if you can avoid going through the nose and leaving open frames for me.
Also, if they do have a better physical game why should you be able to compete with them? You shouldn't be able to compete with them until you also get the good physical game as well. I thought that was the other point of the sport shots. I don't see a problem with that.
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Those who know what's best for us must rise and save us from ourselves.
Post by: Grayson on July 11, 2007, 08:01:43 AM
and after all everyone has to face the same condition.. though the "straight forward" bowlers here then have a real advantage!
Whatever... This won't ever happen here in Germany... every Bowling center has its own pattern more or less THS sometimes oily... sometimes no oil at all...
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"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
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Post by: JessN16 on July 11, 2007, 09:23:16 AM
Case in point is our current summer league. It started out much more difficult that our fall league, because the house was playing with the shot and trying to take some of the wall bounce out of it. They did just that, and averages as a whole were down 10-20 pins across the board.
Then, the bowlers started griping, and last night I was +90 for a set. Many of the other bowlers had similar results. Could have been just an easy night, but one of the association officials said the house had been under a lot of pressure to ease the shot somewhat.
I'd be happy with this move acting as one extreme, the current rules acting as the other, and for us all to eventually wind up somewhere in the middle for standard house shots. It's too easy now but everything doesn't need to be sport.
Jess
Post by: Djarum on July 11, 2007, 10:38:23 AM
quote:
What I think you'll see happen is a house put down a sport shot for certification, then slowly back off to a more standard house shot as the weeks go by.
Case in point is our current summer league. It started out much more difficult that our fall league, because the house was playing with the shot and trying to take some of the wall bounce out of it. They did just that, and averages as a whole were down 10-20 pins across the board.
Then, the bowlers started griping, and last night I was +90 for a set. Many of the other bowlers had similar results. Could have been just an easy night, but one of the association officials said the house had been under a lot of pressure to ease the shot somewhat.
I'd be happy with this move acting as one extreme, the current rules acting as the other, and for us all to eventually wind up somewhere in the middle for standard house shots. It's too easy now but everything doesn't need to be sport.
Jess
I just boils down that the bowlers and the local associations need to stay on top of things. As a bowler, if I noticed a shot was getting easy, then I would notify the association. Then the association should do a random testing of the lanes. We need to hold ourselves and the house accountable.
Dj
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The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.
Post by: Atochabsh on July 11, 2007, 01:10:19 PM
quote:
As a bowler, if I noticed a shot was getting easy, then I would notify the association. Then the association should do a random testing of the lanes. We need to hold ourselves and the house accountable.
Even when USBC had a zero lineage check requirement getting them to be 100% random was extremely difficult. YOu'd go out to the house early in the morning and no one would be there that could run the oil machine. Or you'd go before leagues and they didn't want you to interfere or possibly cause their leagues to get a late start.
Now USBC says we don't have to do zero lineage except once a year. Keep in mind that the association directors are 100% volunteers. Yet we run all over the city sometimes 3 to 4 times to the same house, trying to get the tapes that were required. Its rare that a center has their own equipment to take and read the tapes.
Why would a house shoot itself in the foot by making all its lane conditions more difficult then the center that's just 5 miles down the road? Now if that center is the only game in town, then they have a captive audience of bowlers.
Erin
Post by: charlest on July 11, 2007, 06:22:12 PM
quote:
I got this from a friend who sits on our local board:
"Bottom line from the people at USBC is that they are going to make bowling a sport vice a recreational event that it has been most of these years. Yes the talk is with USBC making all lanes use the sport shot.
I am not commenting on the appropriateness of this idea, one way or the other, but ...
If this happens, bowling will lose more bowlers than all the state smoking bans and a $50 per night bowling fee combined.
If this happens, you will hear more whining than in all the vineyards of France and California, at harvest time, put together! There won't be enough cheese in Michigan,, Wisconsin, New York and Vermont put together to drink with all that w(h)ine.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: mainzer on July 11, 2007, 09:51:36 PM
Finally a challenge
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Mainzerpower
Post by: 9andaWiggle on April 05, 2010, 11:07:17 AM
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9~
Internet Tough Guy
Cyberspace Sheep Lover
Post by: Kinalyx on April 06, 2010, 11:24:27 AM
Does the USBC not understand how many house hacks & average joe league bowlers will quit because of tougher lane conditions? Most bowlers want an easy shot, they dont want to think, they come to bowling to drink & have a night out, not to sit there struggling to shoot 180 because its a tough sport shot.
I think this is good for the SPORT of bowling, which i dont think actually starts becoming a sport until u are competitive. The people that dont want to compete & just bowl because they like it should have an option on lane conditions also. The USBC should implement a "fun" shot as well. Basically all scratch leagues should use the red or blue shot, normal handicap leagues should use the red, then the mixed fun leagues should get some kind of fun shot so that we dont lose so many people because of this.
shawn
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In the bag
Ebonite Mission(pin under bridge, low weight hole) polish over OOB
Storm Fast(pin under bridge, low weight hole)
Storm Natural(pin over ring)
Coming soon
high scores??
Post by: TWOHAND834 on April 06, 2010, 11:32:44 AM
quote:
This has been brought up over & over again, 99% of centers will have nothing to do with going to the red/white/blue patterns, or any sort of "tough" shot. If USBC decides that u have to be on these patterns to be sanctioned, bowling alleys will just have non-sanctioned leagues & run their house shot anyway.
Does the USBC not understand how many house hacks & average joe league bowlers will quit because of tougher lane conditions? Most bowlers want an easy shot, they dont want to think, they come to bowling to drink & have a night out, not to sit there struggling to shoot 180 because its a tough sport shot.
I think this is good for the SPORT of bowling, which i dont think actually starts becoming a sport until u are competitive. The people that dont want to compete & just bowl because they like it should have an option on lane conditions also. The USBC should implement a "fun" shot as well. Basically all scratch leagues should use the red or blue shot, normal handicap leagues should use the red, then the mixed fun leagues should get some kind of fun shot so that we dont lose so many people because of this.
shawn
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In the bag
Ebonite Mission(pin under bridge, low weight hole) polish over OOB
Storm Fast(pin under bridge, low weight hole)
Storm Natural(pin over ring)
Coming soon
high scores??
+1....well said.
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If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!
Post by: DanH78 on April 06, 2010, 11:39:34 AM
quote:
I don't think I've seen this happen yet. Is the USBC still around?
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9~
Internet Tough Guy
Cyberspace Sheep Lover
Will someone turn 9's search function off? Or find him some new sheep?
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It IS next year!