win a ball from Bowling.com
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic: Help: Over Under  (Read 2311 times)

janderson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2181
Help: Over Under
« on: October 09, 2004, 03:23:01 AM »
Please share your experience with me (and everyone else).  What is the most over/under ball you've ever thrown?  I've recently found myself needing a ball that on typical/average conditions would be over/under and I'm out of my element)I typically avoid such equipment like the plague, giving or trading it away).

Help!
--------------------
Kill the back row (or maybe this should read "make your spares, dummy")
Logged

 

TheBowlingKid25

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6133
Re: Help: Over Under
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2004, 06:30:48 PM »
Im still lost on how a control ball wouldnt be better for this? What is the oil pattern anyways? I mean, if its such a hard shot, why not just take a really arcing ball and play up 5?
--------------------
BALLREVIEWS.COM MOD SQUAD! <---member

16 years and still going strong! 16 years old that is! The names Warrior Princess, Xena..Warrior Princess
And why would I "saw" pins in half, THATS A WASTE OF PINS!
Logged

LuckyLefty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17348
Re: Help: Over Under
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2004, 06:31:23 PM »
If you want that then balls like the Retro Blue and Reaction Rip and even the Dynamic and power grooves can really deliver that!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS all balls above are high rg and big diff!  Idea is they work on shorter patterns or a lot of swing is the line!
Logged
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

janderson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2181
Re: Help: Over Under
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2004, 07:27:54 PM »
quote:
Im still lost on how a control ball wouldnt be better for this? What is the oil pattern anyways? I mean, if its such a hard shot, why not just take a really arcing ball and play up 5?


It is a hard shot partly because I don't have the correct equipment to deal with it.  The other half, I will admit, is my inability to deliver a ball that (by the way I throw it) creates over/under.  My days of hitting-up on the ball like I was starting a lawnmower are behind me.

Here's why I believe the control equipment is not working and how I understand/picture when to use over/under versus control equipment.  Bear with me, I think this is good information for everyone.

Forget lane conditions and how we throw the ball for a minute and just consider the equipment itself. Control equipment does not jump/hook (over-react) when it finds the dry boards.  It will typically arc and make a gradual but firm move.  Control equipment (because of layout, cover, low rg, etc) will generally start to roll sooner.  Thus, even in oil, control equipment is going to have some (at least a little) reaction instead of push.  So in a nutshell, control equipment reacts/hooks (even if slightly) less off the dry and more in the oil.

Again, forget lane conditions and delivery for a minute. The opposite of control equipment is what we typically call "over/under" or equipment that "over-reacts".  This type of equipment does jump/hook hard when it finds the dry boards.  Sometimes, it jumps too hard, thus "over-react".  It also goes long (because of layout, cover, high rg, etc) and hooks very little (skids) while in the oil.  So while in the oil, it is "under".  Again in a nutshell, "over/under" equipment can be said to hook harder off the dry and weaker in the oil.

Ok, now let's introduce lane conditions.  I'm going to over simplify to illustrate the point - I'm not trying to offend anyone.  For the rest of this discussion, assume that every shot we make is perfect EXCEPT for missing our target.

Imagine the following lane condition:  There is a heavy block of oil (conditioner) between the second arrows (10th board from the right all the way to 10th board from the left) extending 50 feet down the lane.  By "heavy" let's say 60 units.  If you don't know, don't worry about what a unit is.  Just take it as a generic amount.  Outside of both second arrows, between the right gutter and the 10th board from the right gutter and between the left gutter and the 10th board from the left gutter all the way down the lane is a "light" area of oil - the "dry" part of the lane.  By "light" let's say 6 units.  The backends are "clean" of oil.

This is a 10-to-1 ratio and actually provides a very easy condition to score on.  UNLESS we have a ball that is over/under.

Here's when a over/under piece of equipment can be very over/under.  If, when throwing the over/under equipment, we miss our mark a little to the outside (miss to the right for right-handers, left for left-handers) the ball gets to the dry area sooner and reacts/hooks strongly on the dry boards.  The end result is that the ball hooks more and actually goes through the nose of the pins with a good chance for a split.  That's the "over".  The lane condition provides enough dry for hook when we miss to the right and the over/under ball hooks even more off the dry.  Over hook overkill. If we miss our mark a little inside (miss left for right-handers, miss right for left-handers) the ball stays in the heavy oil longer and hardly reacts at all.  The end result is that we miss the head pin completely (to the right for righties, to the left for lefties)!  Thus the "under". The lanes already have built in "hold" (oil) for when we miss inside and the over/under ball is one that doesn't hook in oil.  Under-hook overkill.  I would call this a "counter-intuitive" reaction.  When we miss outside at the arrows the ball ends up "inside" (through the nose) at the pins and when we miss inside at the arrows the ball ends up "outside" (slide by the head pin) at the pins.

On the same condition, the control piece of equipment works wonders for the exact opposite reasons.  When we miss outside, the ball gets to the dry and the lanes would have our ball hooking hard.  However, control equipment doesn't hook as hard off dry, so the ball lays off and arcs its way to the pocket.  When we miss inside, the oil there would have your ball continue to slide outside.  However, control equipment does generate some hook even in the oil, so our ball has enough hook (combined with the reduced angle) to get to the pocket.  Big scores ensue.

Now imagine the same lane condition pattern but with different amounts of oil.  In the center you have 60 units of oil but on the outside you now have 20 units of oil.  This would be a 3-to-1 ratio.

Role reversal!  Important: Remember now that there is more oil on the lane overall.  You would have to play a more direct line to the pocket.

Now the equipment that was over/under on the first lane condition is perfect.  When we miss outside, the lane oil is such that the ball would typically not make it back, but the ball is actually going to turn a bit harder when it gets to the lighter oil (the "dry" - 20 units is still dryer than 60 units), but not too much because there is still enough oil out there to keep it from over reacting.  When we miss a little inside, the ball still does the same thing through the 60 units of oil as it did on the first condition, but because we're playing a more direct line to the pocket (due to more oil overall on the lane) the ball holds online right into the pocket.  Big scores ensue.

What happens to the "control" equipment?  Well, when we miss outside, there isn't the extra "dry" (20 units is more than three times slicker than 6 units) to steer the ball back and even when it hits the dry, it doesn't hook as hard so you end up missing the head pin.  When we miss inside, the ball still wants to hook some, but now because we're playing a more direct line to the pocket, the hook is too much and the ball goes through the nose for a split.  I would call this a somewhat "fair" reaction because when we miss outside at the arrows, the ball is outside (slide by the headpin) at the pins and when we miss inside at the arrows the ball is inside (through the nost) at the pins.  I say "somewhat" fair because a 1-board miss at the arrows rarely translates to a 1-board miss at the pins, resulting in what could be called an "over/over" situation.

BK25 - I hope that explains it pretty well.  It is this last paragraph that pretty much sums up my situation and why I'm looking for a ball that is "over/under" on a "typical" lane condition.

--------------------
Kill the back row (or maybe this should read "make your spares, dummy")


Edited on 10/12/2004 7:26 PM
Logged

TheBowlingKid25

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6133
Re: Help: Over Under
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2004, 07:57:29 PM »
I totally understand what your saying, but to me, throwing a control ball down and in just seems like a much more logical idea. I mean, this whole time your talking about really swinging the ball out across the middle of the lane through the heavy, and to the outside of the lane to the dry. Why not take a light-medium/light oil ball, drilled for control, and throw it in the lighter oil? Or even a weak ball drilled to go long and snap, to push it really far down in the light oil, and snap, so that the heavy oil is taken out of play unless you really really pull the ball? So say you get a power groove, drilled to snap, but not so much its over/under, and throw it up 10, or from 10 to 5, or 5 to 3, something like that, have it push down in the lighter oil, and snap?
--------------------
BALLREVIEWS.COM MOD SQUAD! <---member

16 years and still going strong! 16 years old that is! The names Warrior Princess, Xena..Warrior Princess
And why would I "saw" pins in half, THATS A WASTE OF PINS!
Logged

janderson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2181
Re: Help: Over Under
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2004, 09:36:30 PM »
The simplified conditions above aren't what we're facing - they illustrate the point.  Playing the edge of the oil isn't necessarily swinging the ball, you can play the edge of the oil down and in.  The control ball down and in has been the save over/over as playing a slight swing or deep swing.
--------------------
Kill the back row (or maybe this should read "make your spares, dummy")
Logged

TheBowlingKid25

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6133
Re: Help: Over Under
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2004, 10:05:38 PM »
Well then I'd just say go for a huge skid/huge snap ball. I went bowling tonight, and threw my gargoyle, that ball is like king of skid/snap. Stood on 40, swung out to about 3, and the ball came back around the 45 foot mark, CAME BACK HARD TO! Pocket strikes, high strikes, light hits, scattered the crap out of the pins!
--------------------
BALLREVIEWS.COM MOD SQUAD! <---member

16 years and still going strong! 16 years old that is! The names Warrior Princess, Xena..Warrior Princess
And why would I "saw" pins in half, THATS A WASTE OF PINS!
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]
« previous next »