BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: trash heap on January 16, 2015, 11:14:58 AM
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We have several teen girls that have that spinner type release and they are having success on the lanes. When the lanes dry up this style of bowler is deadly.
Even on a fresh house shot, one teen that used to struggle on it, just bought a high end ball. The ball checks up sooner for her and she is mixing up the pins.
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I know a few good ones in the area. Ones that are athletic with their game are killer...some ate garbage though...
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Had one on my team a few years ago, but was a dude... in his 50s. He was pretty decent at it.
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Spinners can be very effective when there is ample friction. THS always has a bunch of friction outside. Drawback is longer flatter oil.
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Are you talking about a true spinner release like they do very well with in Taiwan?
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Are you talking about a true spinner release like they do very well with in Taiwan?
Hits the pocket 4 times in 12 shots and shoots 244. LOLOL!!!!!!!
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Are you talking about a true spinner release like they do very well with in Taiwan?
DAFUQ did I just watch? Makes me question everything my coaches taught me as a youth bowler lol.
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I have been accused many times of throwing a spinner, but really, I just have a poor release.
I found it interesting that the spinner bowler only used his thumb and ring finger.
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if you look closely the spinner guy only puts his ring finger in the ball.
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Helicopter is most extreme spinner. Everythng between that and a full roller has elements of spin. The more you circle the ball counter clockwise on the release the lower the track and the more you approach a spinner
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That is very true. The helicopter release gained popularity a few years back in some of the Far East countries that had lane beds that were very old (wood lanes). Scoring conditions were tough and very unpredictable. Hooking the ball was often a gamble.
A spinner (or in this case the extreme "helicopter") allowed the bowler to keep his/her trajectory pretty straight farther downlane. In many ways, these types of conditions were fairly common when I first started to bowl over 50 years ago. The lanes would often develop a track. If the track was well worn, scoring would often be very difficult. In those days, balls did not have the dynamic cores and aggressive coverstocks of the balls of today. In addition, lanes were often oiled by hand, gutter to gutter (and beyond-lol), and for most of the lane's length. The only "friction" to be found was in this track area. Misses to the right (or left) of the track were out of bounds, regardless of one's rev rate. For this reason, the spinner was a very effective way to keep the ball within the track without it overreacting. Many top PBA stars of
that era won titles throwing spinners (Don Johnson, Gary Dickinson, Glenn Allison, to name a few). This is one of the reasons why a lot of old timers (myself included),
still have to work very hard at keeping our thumbs "up" in today's scoring environment---an environment of synthetic lane surfaces, higher and slicker oil
volumes and viscosities, where the spinner is no longer effective unless there is
a lot of friction on the lane.
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If "spinning" the ball was effective in the long haul, the Pros would be perfecting it and using it. Don't kid yourself the most effective carry happens when the ball is in full forward roll with a slight axis tilt as it hits the pins. Watch ANY top average bowler and you will see how the ball carries pins with this release. More and more bowlers are getting away from the skid/flip release and going to an earlier roll release. "Helicopter" bowlers were a fad in the far East where lane conditions were horrible and pins were the same as were the bowlers.
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That is very true. The helicopter release gained popularity a few years back in some of the Far East countries that had lane beds that were very old (wood lanes). Scoring conditions were tough and very unpredictable. Hooking the ball was often a gamble.
A spinner (or in this case the extreme "helicopter") allowed the bowler to keep his/her trajectory pretty straight farther downlane. In many ways, these types of conditions were fairly common when I first started to bowl over 50 years ago. The lanes would often develop a track. If the track was well worn, scoring would often be very difficult. In those days, balls did not have the dynamic cores and aggressive coverstocks of the balls of today. In addition, lanes were often oiled by hand, gutter to gutter (and beyond-lol), and for most of the lane's length. The only "friction" to be found was in this track area. Misses to the right (or left) of the track were out of bounds, regardless of one's rev rate. For this reason, the spinner was a very effective way to keep the ball within the track without it overreacting. Many top PBA stars of
that era won titles throwing spinners (Don Johnson, Gary Dickinson, Glenn Allison, to name a few). This is one of the reasons why a lot of old timers (myself included),
still have to work very hard at keeping our thumbs "up" in today's scoring environment---an environment of synthetic lane surfaces, higher and slicker oil
volumes and viscosities, where the spinner is no longer effective unless there is
a lot of friction on the lane.
Well, that explains my release. Learned to bowl in the 60's on dry lanes as a kid trying to make the ball hook.
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I too learned to bowl in the 60's and there were certainly a few old worn out wood houses left. However the vast majority of centers were less than 10 years old with wood lanes in pretty good shape. I worked in an 8 lane center as a teenager and did the lanes with a spray gun and Turkish towels to buff. Took the sprayer to 45 feet and walked back pumping the handle and keeping the nozzle about knee high. Cut off the spray at the dots. Let the oil settle for about 15 minutes, then buffed from foul line to head pin and back again. Those lanes started very slick, but the soft lacquer finish tracked quickly, and you could hook the ball decently by the second game. Big time ob outside 10, but great track between 10 and 15. End over end roll with soft speed worked best on the longer oil patterns. Still a lot of full roller around, and they worked well if you encountered something walled up off the corner ( yes they walled them in the 60's too ).
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Did anyone watch the PBA Telecast yesterday. Wasn't Parkins release more of a Spinning Release?
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she has high tilt but i don't think she's a spinner. Spinners purposely have their hand in that position and aim to go brooklyn with a ball thats about 12 lbs or so, parkins uses a 16 lb and she does have more tilt than spinners
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So how would you describe her style?
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There are degrees of spin. Anything that tilts the axis, and decrease the track size has some degree of spin. When I was young and learning my game, we referred to the most effective release as a semi roller, contrasted to a full roller, or spinner. I started my thumb at about 2 oclock, and rotated it to about 10 oclock. Something along those lines was done by most every scratch bowler to a greater or lesser degree.
Other than the helicopter release, which by the way is used with a 12 lb ball, any type of traditional swing regardless of how much wrist rotation and spin is put on the ball at release, will transition to roll as it encounter friction.
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Helicopter is most extreme spinner. Everythng between that and a full roller has elements of spin. The more you circle the ball counter clockwise on the release the lower the track and the more you approach a spinner
Yes, I remember in the late 80's and 90's the "helicoptor" release was the thing to watch. Much like the two handed style is today.
Parkins was throwing a semi-spinner. Goes long and hooks late. Effective on the right condition. She won her match with it.
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Parkins was throwing a semi-spinner. Goes long and hooks late. Effective on the right condition. She won her match with it.
That is kind of my point to this thread. With today's very aggressive coverstocks, I think a semi-spinner could be very effective on today's conditions.
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Any kind of spinner is pretty ineffective on longer flatter patterns. Helicopter only worked on parking lot type surfaces with little oil. It allowed players to average 200 when more traditional releases couldn't be kept on the lane. It basically worked because there was so much deflection from spinning the 12 lb ball that splits were rare on high hits. Ball would take out the 6 and 10 or 4 and 7 on anything that wasn't right through the nose. In addition the spinner tended to lay the pins down so they were more horizontal.
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correcte. A spinning type of ball will not be abe to effectively "read the pattern" on the longer flatter pattern. This is why people who top the ball struggle so much on longer patterns. On a THS, it could be devastating with a 12 lb ball. That is if you could stand the ridicule. ;D
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correcte. A spinning type of ball will not be abe to effectively "read the pattern" on the longer flatter pattern. This is why people who top the ball struggle so much on longer patterns. On a THS, it could be devastating with a 12 lb ball. That is if you could stand the ridicule. ;D
I am not discussing about the Spinner Type bowler from 20 years ago that threw a 12lb ball. I am referring to Semi-Spinners. These kids are using 14 and 15 lb balls. The ball hits friction and turns.
They might struggle on the fresh shot, but once the pattern in worn in, watch out. They can stay on their line a lot longer and they carry a lot of different hits.
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On heavy, flatter patterns the semi-spinner will not fare as well as someone who rolls the ball with higher track. Who said anything about fresh THS patterns? No matter where somebody's ball tracks, feed it to the dry outside boards and it comes back.
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Once again this demonstrates why a house pattern scores so well. Everyone from spinner to full rollers can find the amount of friction they need to be effective. On flat patterns the length of the buff has a big impact because you can't get early friction by moving outside. On THS move to the right is the same as finding a short pattern. If you throw more end over end you can play in the oil to get more length before you encounter friction.
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Exactly the point I was trying to make. Thanks
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My view on this is where I used to see spinners struggling, it seems with all this new aggresive equipment available today, that this style might work on all conditions.
You might have a point, but I would like to see it in action first. Give these Semi-Spinners a Guru or some kind of high end monster ball of today. Put them on that high volume flat pattern. You might be surprised.
Its not about style of the bowler on high volume flat pattern. Its more about the bowler's ability and skill set that makes the difference on that pattern.
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My view on this is where I used to see spinners struggling, it seems with all this new aggresive equipment available today, that this style might work on all conditions.
You might have a point, but I would like to see it in action first. Give these Semi-Spinners a Guru or some kind of high end monster ball of today. Put them on that high volume flat pattern. You might be surprised.
Its not about style of the bowler on high volume flat pattern. Its more about the bowler's ability and skill set that makes the difference on that pattern.
Its the bowler's ability and skill set that make the difference on any pattern. Anybody who bowls can tell you that changing the axis of rotation of the bowling ball is what gets you thru different patterns and oil length. A semi spinner release is from timing or the lack of strength to stay behind the ball. Since it is not a desirable release to have as "A" release it stands to reason that one that throws the ball like that cannot change to adapt. Therefore they will struggle on everything but shorter, dryer patterns. Its just that simple.
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Watch the guys on the show. I cannot think of one top player from Rash to Weber who hasn't gone toward more forward roll and less axis tilt on the tournament patterns. lack of friction kills spinners. Even with the aggressive shells, heavy long oil takes away the friction that a spinner needs.
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Watch the guys on the show. I cannot think of one top player from Rash to Weber who hasn't gone toward more forward roll and less axis tilt on the tournament patterns. lack of friction kills spinners. Even with the aggressive shells, heavy long oil takes away the friction that a spinner needs.
Weber more forward roll? must have missed that style change.
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Less axis tilt is the predominant change from the old days to today. Weber's "A" game utilizes 90 degrees of axis rotation, but his axis tilt is very low. He can also go up the back of the ball but even here, his tilt remains low. Aside from lower axis tilt,
today's conditions do favor more forward roll, especially on fresh, flatter patterns.
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Watch the guys on the show. I cannot think of one top player from Rash to Weber who hasn't gone toward more forward roll and less axis tilt on the tournament patterns. lack of friction kills spinners. Even with the aggressive shells, heavy long oil takes away the friction that a spinner needs.
Weber more forward roll? must have missed that style change.
I believe it was when he won toc that he said he been working on changing his style to play more up to back to become more versatile.
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Petes extreme axis rotation ( not remotely close to a spinner ) has been his strength and weakness over the years. When he has a look with that release he can separate himself because just about nobody else has that roll. I have seen just as many times where didn't match up and he couldn't compete. I think that is why he has worked to come more off the back of the ball.
Pete honed his game as a teen on the shorter patterns that predominated through the 80's ( the so called crank to the bank era ).