win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: Spinners - Observing success with this style  (Read 16309 times)

trash heap

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2648
Spinners - Observing success with this style
« on: January 16, 2015, 11:14:58 AM »
We have several teen girls that have that spinner type release and they are having success on the lanes. When the lanes dry up this style of bowler is deadly.

Even on a fresh house shot, one teen that used to struggle on it, just bought a high end ball. The ball checks up sooner for her and she is mixing up the pins.


Talkin' Trash!

 

Joker-1

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 207
Re: Spinners - Observing success with this style
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2015, 09:20:47 AM »
she has high tilt but i don't think she's a spinner. Spinners purposely have their hand in that position and aim to go brooklyn with a ball thats about 12 lbs or so, parkins uses a 16 lb and she does have more tilt than spinners

trash heap

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2648
Re: Spinners - Observing success with this style
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2015, 10:48:37 AM »
So how would you describe her style?




Talkin' Trash!

avabob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2778
Re: Spinners - Observing success with this style
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2015, 12:06:12 PM »
There are degrees of spin.  Anything that tilts the axis, and decrease the track size has some degree of spin.  When I was young and learning my game, we referred to the most effective release as a semi roller, contrasted to a full roller, or spinner.  I started my thumb at about 2 oclock, and rotated it to about 10 oclock.  Something along those lines was done by most every scratch bowler to a greater or lesser degree.

Other than the helicopter release, which by the way is used with a 12 lb ball, any type of traditional swing regardless of how much wrist rotation and spin is put on the ball at release,  will transition to roll as it encounter friction.

Cool Rocking Daddy

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 19
Re: Spinners - Observing success with this style
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2015, 04:07:29 PM »
Helicopter is most extreme spinner.  Everythng between that and a full roller has elements of spin.  The more you circle the ball counter clockwise on the release the lower the track and the more you approach a spinner

Yes, I remember in the late 80's and 90's the "helicoptor" release was the thing to watch.  Much like the two handed style is today. 

Parkins was throwing a semi-spinner.  Goes long and hooks late.  Effective on the right condition.  She won her match with it.
Father, do you want to bang heads with me?

trash heap

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2648
Re: Spinners - Observing success with this style
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2015, 08:54:28 AM »
Parkins was throwing a semi-spinner.  Goes long and hooks late.  Effective on the right condition.  She won her match with it.

That is kind of my point to this thread. With today's very aggressive coverstocks, I think a semi-spinner could be very effective on today's conditions.


Talkin' Trash!

avabob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2778
Re: Spinners - Observing success with this style
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2015, 11:50:34 AM »
Any kind of spinner is pretty ineffective on longer flatter patterns.  Helicopter only worked on parking lot type surfaces with little oil.  It allowed players to average 200 when more traditional releases couldn't be kept on the lane.  It basically worked because there was so much deflection from spinning the 12 lb ball that splits were rare on high hits.  Ball would take out the 6 and 10 or 4 and 7 on anything that wasn't right through the nose.  In addition the spinner tended to lay the pins down so they were more horizontal.     

BMFOBR

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 74
Re: Spinners - Observing success with this style
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2015, 04:03:48 PM »
correcte.  A spinning type of ball will not be abe to effectively "read the pattern" on the longer flatter pattern.  This is why people who top the ball struggle so much on longer patterns.  On a THS, it could be devastating with a 12 lb ball.  That is if you could stand the ridicule.   ;D     
If you're so gutless as to hide behind the ignore button while taking shots at people....why are you even here?

trash heap

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2648
Re: Spinners - Observing success with this style
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2015, 12:43:14 PM »
correcte.  A spinning type of ball will not be abe to effectively "read the pattern" on the longer flatter pattern.  This is why people who top the ball struggle so much on longer patterns.  On a THS, it could be devastating with a 12 lb ball.  That is if you could stand the ridicule.   ;D     

I am not discussing about the Spinner Type bowler from 20 years ago that threw a 12lb ball. I am referring to Semi-Spinners. These kids are using 14 and 15 lb balls. The ball hits friction and turns.

They might struggle on the fresh shot, but once the pattern in worn in, watch out. They can stay on their line a lot longer and they carry a lot of different hits.
 




Talkin' Trash!

BMFOBR

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 74
Re: Spinners - Observing success with this style
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2015, 01:40:47 PM »
On heavy, flatter patterns the semi-spinner will not fare as well as someone who rolls the ball with higher track.  Who said anything about fresh THS patterns?  No matter where somebody's ball tracks, feed it to the dry outside boards and it comes back.
If you're so gutless as to hide behind the ignore button while taking shots at people....why are you even here?

avabob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2778
Re: Spinners - Observing success with this style
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2015, 02:12:48 PM »
Once again this demonstrates why a house pattern scores so well.  Everyone from spinner to full rollers can find the amount of friction they need to be effective.  On flat patterns the length of the buff has a big impact because you can't get early friction by moving outside.  On THS move to the right is the same as finding a short pattern.  If you throw more end over end you can play in the oil to get more length before you encounter friction. 
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 10:47:14 AM by avabob »

BMFOBR

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 74
Re: Spinners - Observing success with this style
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2015, 02:54:06 PM »
Exactly the point I was trying to make.  Thanks
If you're so gutless as to hide behind the ignore button while taking shots at people....why are you even here?

trash heap

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2648
Re: Spinners - Observing success with this style
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2015, 06:05:07 PM »
My view on this is where I used to see spinners struggling, it seems with all this new aggresive equipment available today, that this style might work on all conditions.

You might have a point, but I would like to see it in action first. Give these Semi-Spinners a Guru or some kind of high end monster ball of today. Put them on that high volume flat pattern. You might be surprised.

Its not about style of the bowler on high volume flat pattern. Its more about the bowler's ability and skill set that makes the difference on that pattern.
 
Talkin' Trash!

BMFOBR

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 74
Re: Spinners - Observing success with this style
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2015, 07:27:00 PM »
My view on this is where I used to see spinners struggling, it seems with all this new aggresive equipment available today, that this style might work on all conditions.

You might have a point, but I would like to see it in action first. Give these Semi-Spinners a Guru or some kind of high end monster ball of today. Put them on that high volume flat pattern. You might be surprised.

Its not about style of the bowler on high volume flat pattern. Its more about the bowler's ability and skill set that makes the difference on that pattern.

Its the bowler's ability and skill set that make the difference on any pattern.  Anybody who bowls can tell you that changing the axis of rotation of the bowling ball is what gets you thru different patterns and oil length.  A semi spinner release is from timing or the lack of strength to stay behind the ball.  Since it is not a desirable release to have as "A" release it stands to reason that one that throws the ball like that cannot change to adapt.  Therefore they will struggle on everything but shorter, dryer patterns.  Its just that simple.
If you're so gutless as to hide behind the ignore button while taking shots at people....why are you even here?

avabob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2778
Re: Spinners - Observing success with this style
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2015, 10:50:38 AM »
Watch the guys on the show.  I cannot think of one top player from Rash to Weber who hasn't gone toward more forward roll and less axis tilt on the tournament patterns.  lack of friction kills spinners.  Even with the aggressive shells, heavy long oil takes away the friction that a spinner needs. 

Polish_Hammer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
Re: Spinners - Observing success with this style
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2015, 12:40:33 PM »
Watch the guys on the show.  I cannot think of one top player from Rash to Weber who hasn't gone toward more forward roll and less axis tilt on the tournament patterns.  lack of friction kills spinners.  Even with the aggressive shells, heavy long oil takes away the friction that a spinner needs. 
Weber more forward roll? must have missed that style change.