BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: thewhiz on December 24, 2015, 02:37:09 PM
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My buddy keeps spinning the ball. Leaves a ton of flat 10 pins. No matter what I suggest we cant fix it. He just aint staying behind the ball. Any suggestions?
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Until he recognizes and admits that is the cause of his problem, He doesn't see any reason to make a change.
Since he doesn't believe you, I'd suggest showing him a video of his release and the ball never getting into a roll, if you can.
Usually the ball doesn't get into a roll or if it does, it's too late and he hits the pocket too wide.
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I have showed him videos. How would you go about staying behind the ball. Any drills out there to practice?
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I have showed him videos. How would you go about staying behind the ball. Any drills out there to practice?
Robby's Restrictor is worth a look.
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With the couple people I've worked with, I found the best success when I had the person try to throw the ball end over end consistently. Once they got used to throwing the ball end over end, I worked with them on starting to turn the ball but soft so they don't try to hit on it and go right back to spinning it
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I have showed him videos. How would you go about staying behind the ball. Any drills out there to practice?
Some of the basic mental/physical drills/ways are
1. Lead with your ring finger throughout the release.
2. Keep the inside of your elbow facing the target throughout the release.
3. Keep your palm behind the ball through out and at the release.
4. My personal process is to keep my fingers at 6:30 (I'm right handed), roughly, from the pushaway, through the arm-swing, through the entire release.
The main idea is not to help the ball. We all subconsciously want to help the ball hook; so we do the worst possible thing: we start turning the ball early. Worse yet is when we don't allow our thumb to release and our fingers spin around our thumb. We wind up with a small track diameter and a high tilt angle.
This makes me wonder if he has a badly fit span and thumb size and thumb angle. Maybe the first thing he should do is to see a GOOD pro shop/driller to insure his fit is proper.
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I have been trying to bring up my rev rate in an effort to become more versatile. In trying to do it, i turn the ball too early and end up spinning the ball. So you are saying less is more?
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So you are saying less is more?
100% soft hand and smooth release
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you can have him try throwing a back up ball slowly. Stand behind the foul line, stand like he's posting up (to clear the hips), and slowly do a 1/4 swing back and forth and release a back up ball after the third or fourth swing.
I say slowly for several reason.
1. Not everyone can throw a back up ball, doing it slow will prevent injury.
2. Doing it slowly also allows him time to get used to the feel of the release, but the key is being aware of the hand position throughout the swing.
3. We all know everyone have different levels of learning a new skill. Some are quick and some just need more time. He seems he needs time.
Once he get used to this drill, increase his swing another by 1/4 and focus on his swing and and hand position.
Performing a movement while being aware of our body is important. Every move has a meaning and a purpose. If one component (hip rotation) in throwing a punch, for example, is ignored, the whole movement is wasted - lack of effectiveness, power, and/or speed.
Right now, it seems he's not aware of his hand position.
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I have been trying to bring up my rev rate in an effort to become more versatile. In trying to do it, i turn the ball too early and end up spinning the ball. So you are saying less is more?
What you're doing is natural; you're trying to help the ball, but basically you're adding more tilt and rotation which is not truly a help.
While professional coaches might have a better way with words, what I try to do is keep my hand behind the ball, and keep my fingers under and behind, while allowing my thumb a faster release. BUT, you can't exaggerate this or you'll wind up hitting up on the ball. Smooth and easy can translate into "less is more".
Using the term "Don't muscle the ball" is false. It requires muscle to swing and to hold onto the ball and release it properly. What you don't want to do is to over-muscle it. You don't want to lock your shoulders to control the arm swing; that must be as loose as possible in order not to hinder a natural swing, allowing the mass and momentum of the swinging ball to make your armswing "easy and flowing".
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simple thought to try and get him to see different reaction
hold it like a suitcase throughout the release, that should get his hand around the ball a bit more - hopefully
adjustable wrist positioner would help also or some lessons if available
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If he is motivated to fix his release, the best approach is to try to get him to practice throwing what feels like a straight ball. He will still get turn on the ball even if it feels dead straight to him, but it will bring his track way up. Then trying to keep a relaxed arm and not hitting or lifting during an extended follow through will also help. Also look at pitches. If he has lateral pitches toward palm on thumb or fingers changing them would also help.
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I know a couple spinners; and most of them don't keep their elbows in. as part of the bad release the elbow flares out, away from the body.
IF this is part of the issue, "the towel" drill might benefit. I likely will garble up the explanation, but basically you put a towel between the arm and torso at the arm pit. if the arm swing stays close to the body the towel will fall to the ground at the foul line. if you flare the elbow away from the body, the towel will drop early.
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I know a couple spinners; and most of them don't keep their elbows in. as part of the bad release the elbow flares out, away from the body.
IF this is part of the issue, "the towel" drill might benefit. I likely will garble up the explanation, but basically you put a towel between the arm and torso at the arm pit. if the arm swing stays close to the body the towel will fall to the ground at the foul line. if you flare the elbow away from the body, the towel will drop early.
I've never tried this, but it seems to me the towel would fall out at the height of the backswing, before the ball/arm would start moving forward, wouldn't it?
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I know a couple spinners; and most of them don't keep their elbows in. as part of the bad release the elbow flares out, away from the body.
IF this is part of the issue, "the towel" drill might benefit. I likely will garble up the explanation, but basically you put a towel between the arm and torso at the arm pit. if the arm swing stays close to the body the towel will fall to the ground at the foul line. if you flare the elbow away from the body, the towel will drop early.
I've never tried this, but it seems to me the towel would fall out at the height of the backswing, before the ball/arm would start moving forward, wouldn't it?
Its been a long time since I have used this; it was taught to me by Brian Voss many years ago when I was at some event for junior bowlers (similar to the Bowl with the pros thing, but before it).
I suppose with a high enough back swing, you are correct. the towel would fall at the height of the swing, perhaps sooner if you have a Mike Fagan like back swing.
how high of a swing will it take for this to not work/be invalid? I don't know.
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Tom Baker is a very successful "spinner" on the PBA tour.
I, myself, am I spinner. I don't leave an excessive amount to 10 pins. No more than anyone else. I average anywhere from 210 to 230 on house.
Being a spinner is not necessarily a bad thing if you learn how to make it work for you.
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A most destructive type spinner is "lifted" instead of a pure spinner, which is not lifted. The "lifted" spinner is lifted with the fingers when the fingers have gotten almost to the front of the ball before releasing. A pure spinner is released on the side of the ball with no lift. The lifted spinner will have a larger diameter track than the pure spinner and be higher up on the ball. Some legends from the past used the lifted spinner. A problem with spinners today is violent reactions when transitioning from wet to dry. The more reactive the ball, the more reactive the transition becomes. A spinner automatically gets length, so can get length with a rougher finished ball then let the ball stand up. As with all deliveries, matching speed with type of delivery is desired to get good results. To sum up, a spinner is more complicated to use than a rolling ball. It takes a lot of study and practice to successfully use a spinner with today's equipment. Baker is one of a few being successful with a spinner today. I bet a lot of people would be surprised at Bakers track diameter and placement.