Author Topic: Sport Pattern League (Read 16256 times)

MrNattyBoh · « **on:** May 22, 2014, 08:57:29 AM »

Well I got my first taste of a sport pattern league this week! Boy do i need some work....lol....shot 155-144-192. NOT GOOD! however, i think with some practice and better concentration I think I can pull off 190 avg, well, that's my goal anyway. My first goal was to shoot 500 the first week and I failed. Spare shooting sucked until the last game and finding the pocket the first two games was like finding a needle in a haystack........we get to practice on the pattern the night before so i will definitely be taking advantage of that! I am looking forward to the challenge and sharpening my game and going to the next level! anyone else bowling sport pattern league for the first time this year?

milorafferty · « **Reply #61 on:** July 08, 2014, 10:34:28 AM »

You guys crack me up.

avabob · « **Reply #62 on:** July 08, 2014, 10:53:17 AM »

There is no substitute for reading lanes, and understanding what your ball reaction tells you. In addition all patterns transition, and it is adjusting as lanes transition that leads to success.

There is no substitute for this ability, and only experience really teaches it. However that experience will tell you how different patterns and buff lengths react to your game. I think learning to understand what graphs can tell you is very valuable, but they should never be read as a chiseled in granite formula. Keeping an open mind can be tough sometimes, but is the other essential.

milorafferty · « **Reply #63 on:** July 08, 2014, 11:04:24 AM »

Quote from: avabob on July 08, 2014, 10:53:17 AM

There is no substitute for reading lanes, and understanding what your ball reaction tells you. In addition all patterns transition, and it is adjusting as lanes transition that leads to success.

There is no substitute for this ability, and only experience really teaches it. However that experience will tell you how different patterns and buff lengths react to your game. I think learning to understand what graphs can tell you is very valuable, but they should never be read as a chiseled in granite formula. Keeping an open mind can be tough sometimes, but is the other essential.

Come on avabob, you have not been following the thread close enough. All that extra information available is just non-sense. Ain't worth the paper it's printed on. Just huck the ball down the lane anywhere and make the adjustment. Golly, you have ten entire minutes to figure out where to start your first game of competition, so why bother with reading some silly lane graph or pattern description for an idea of where to throw that first ball? In fact, I don't know why the PBA, USBC, Kegel etc even print that useless crap. Just watch your ball reaction and adjust, doesn't matter if you have no friggin idea of where to start, just throw the damn ball down the lane.

And if case some of you missed it, yes that's SARCASM.

Gizmo823 · « **Reply #64 on:** July 08, 2014, 11:25:22 AM »

Man I was right there with you until you said you were being sarcastic . .

Quote from: milorafferty on July 08, 2014, 11:04:24 AM

Quote from: avabob on July 08, 2014, 10:53:17 AM
There is no substitute for reading lanes, and understanding what your ball reaction tells you. In addition all patterns transition, and it is adjusting as lanes transition that leads to success.

There is no substitute for this ability, and only experience really teaches it. However that experience will tell you how different patterns and buff lengths react to your game. I think learning to understand what graphs can tell you is very valuable, but they should never be read as a chiseled in granite formula. Keeping an open mind can be tough sometimes, but is the other essential.

Come on avabob, you have not been following the thread close enough. All that extra information available is just non-sense. Ain't worth the paper it's printed on. Just huck the ball down the lane anywhere and make the adjustment. Golly, you have ten entire minutes to figure out where to start your first game of competition, so why bother with reading some silly lane graph or pattern description for an idea of where to throw that first ball? In fact, I don't know why the PBA, USBC, Kegel etc even print that useless crap. Just watch your ball reaction and adjust, doesn't matter if you have no friggin idea of where to start, just throw the damn ball down the lane.

And if case some of you missed it, yes that's SARCASM.

Gizmo823 · « **Reply #65 on:** July 08, 2014, 12:01:46 PM »

So what happens when that sheet isn't there? In this JR Gold prep league, they're allowing adults to bowl with the kids to simulate some tougher competition, and also to teach them. They have a little meeting with the kids before the league, show them the graph, talk a little about the shot, and then we go bowl. The guys running the thing were a little miffed at me at first because I wasn't playing the lanes the way the sheet said they were supposed to be played. I got several questions of, "Why are you playing inside when the sheet says the line is outside?" My reply was always, "Because I want to knock the pins down." Once they started seeing how much higher my scores were than everyone else's, they changed their thinking a bit. Plus all these shots are going down on 15 year old Anvilane, a couple of the houses at Jr Gold are WOOD. If you pay any kind of attention to the pattern or the graph down there, you're going to be completely screwed.

Bottom line, you can have your graphs and your sheets that give you all this information, and I'll just take your money.

milorafferty · « **Reply #66 on:** July 08, 2014, 12:06:45 PM »

Well have at it then. I'm sure none of the guys who actually make a living bowling ever look at a lane graph.

Quote from: Gizmo823 on July 08, 2014, 12:01:46 PM

So what happens when that sheet isn't there? In this JR Gold prep league, they're allowing adults to bowl with the kids to simulate some tougher competition, and also to teach them. They have a little meeting with the kids before the league, show them the graph, talk a little about the shot, and then we go bowl. The guys running the thing were a little miffed at me at first because I wasn't playing the lanes the way the sheet said they were supposed to be played. I got several questions of, "Why are you playing inside when the sheet says the line is outside?" My reply was always, "Because I want to knock the pins down." Once they started seeing how much higher my scores were than everyone else's, they changed their thinking a bit. Plus all these shots are going down on 15 year old Anvilane, a couple of the houses at Jr Gold are WOOD. If you pay any kind of attention to the pattern or the graph down there, you're going to be completely screwed.

Bottom line, you can have your graphs and your sheets that give you all this information, and I'll just take your money.
[/quote

Good Times Good Times · « **Reply #67 on:** July 08, 2014, 12:08:11 PM »

Quote from: Gizmo823 on July 08, 2014, 12:01:46 PM

Bottom line, you can have your graphs and your sheets that give you all this information, and I'll just take your money.

This.

Joe Cool · « **Reply #68 on:** July 08, 2014, 01:10:42 PM »

I can't say this with 100% certainty since I don't know how to read the graphs, but I'm sure there's value to reading them and getting an idea of what they say. I think (if I'm understanding correctly) what is being said is that you take that understanding and combine it with what you are seeing. If reading the pattern was all it took, the Riggs' of the world wouldn't bother practicing on the USBC pattern since they know exactly what it's going to do. It seems they take that information, form a plan, then (hopefully) prepare to alter the plan based on what they see on the lanes.

What I see are a lot of people that know just enough to be dangerous. They understand basic concepts, but lack the experience (or ability) to adapt when things are not what they expect. The house shot tricks these people into thinking they are skilled, but when they hit the flatter patterns, they can't understand what the ball is doing because they've never seen that reaction before. They average 210 at home and go to Nationals (for example) and average 170. You put a bunch of those guys on the same pair at Nationals and all hell breaks loose with the shot.

I'm not picking on anybody with this post. I just described myself. Experience on challenging patterns is critical to growing as a bowler. You can pack so much information into your head, but if you never get the chance to see what happens when you apply that knowledge, the knowledge actually hurts more than it helps. Once a year at Nationals isn't experience because it's been too long for you to remember exactly what you saw last time out. This is why I think USBC has to figure out a way (and I have no idea how to do it) to mandate a sport league being available to anyone that wants to participate in it.

Gizmo823 · « **Reply #69 on:** July 08, 2014, 01:15:32 PM »

I'm assuming you're being sarcastic, but that's the absolute truth. You think Pete Weber cares what's on the lane graph? If you know how to bowl you don't need a lane graph. You think these guys learn anything about the Badger or the Wolf or anything from a lane graph? I can pretty well guarantee you the best in the world don't care what the graph says, they care what the lane and their ball reaction is telling them. So what if the graph tells you to play somewhere and the shot doesn't end up being there? What did people do before lane graphs?

Quote from: milorafferty on July 08, 2014, 12:06:45 PM

Well have at it then. I'm sure none of the guys who actually make a living bowling ever look at a lane graph.
Quote from: Gizmo823 on July 08, 2014, 12:01:46 PM
So what happens when that sheet isn't there? In this JR Gold prep league, they're allowing adults to bowl with the kids to simulate some tougher competition, and also to teach them. They have a little meeting with the kids before the league, show them the graph, talk a little about the shot, and then we go bowl. The guys running the thing were a little miffed at me at first because I wasn't playing the lanes the way the sheet said they were supposed to be played. I got several questions of, "Why are you playing inside when the sheet says the line is outside?" My reply was always, "Because I want to knock the pins down." Once they started seeing how much higher my scores were than everyone else's, they changed their thinking a bit. Plus all these shots are going down on 15 year old Anvilane, a couple of the houses at Jr Gold are WOOD. If you pay any kind of attention to the pattern or the graph down there, you're going to be completely screwed.

Bottom line, you can have your graphs and your sheets that give you all this information, and I'll just take your money.
[/quote

milorafferty · « **Reply #70 on:** July 08, 2014, 01:19:55 PM »

Quote from: Gizmo823 on July 08, 2014, 01:15:32 PM

I'm assuming you're being sarcastic, but that's the absolute truth. You think Pete Weber cares what's on the lane graph? If you know how to bowl you don't need a lane graph. You think these guys learn anything about the Badger or the Wolf or anything from a lane graph? I can pretty well guarantee you the best in the world don't care what the graph says, they care what the lane and their ball reaction is telling them. So what if the graph tells you to play somewhere and the shot doesn't end up being there? What did people do before lane graphs?

Quote from: milorafferty on July 08, 2014, 12:06:45 PM
Well have at it then. I'm sure none of the guys who actually make a living bowling ever look at a lane graph.
Quote from: Gizmo823 on July 08, 2014, 12:01:46 PM
So what happens when that sheet isn't there? In this JR Gold prep league, they're allowing adults to bowl with the kids to simulate some tougher competition, and also to teach them. They have a little meeting with the kids before the league, show them the graph, talk a little about the shot, and then we go bowl. The guys running the thing were a little miffed at me at first because I wasn't playing the lanes the way the sheet said they were supposed to be played. I got several questions of, "Why are you playing inside when the sheet says the line is outside?" My reply was always, "Because I want to knock the pins down." Once they started seeing how much higher my scores were than everyone else's, they changed their thinking a bit. Plus all these shots are going down on 15 year old Anvilane, a couple of the houses at Jr Gold are WOOD. If you pay any kind of attention to the pattern or the graph down there, you're going to be completely screwed.

Bottom line, you can have your graphs and your sheets that give you all this information, and I'll just take your money.
[/quote

Of course Pete Weber doesn't need to see a lane graph. He bowls on the patterns all them time. But if it's a pattern Pete has never seen before, you mean to tell me he doesn't even bother to look at the lane graph? If that's what you are saying, then you are clueless.

milorafferty · « **Reply #71 on:** July 08, 2014, 01:23:52 PM »

Quote from: Joe Cool on July 08, 2014, 01:10:42 PM

I can't say this with 100% certainty since I don't know how to read the graphs, but I'm sure there's value to reading them and getting an idea of what they say. I think (if I'm understanding correctly) what is being said is that you take that understanding and combine it with what you are seeing. If reading the pattern was all it took, the Riggs' of the world wouldn't bother practicing on the USBC pattern since they know exactly what it's going to do. It seems they take that information, form a plan, then (hopefully) prepare to alter the plan based on what they see on the lanes.

What I see are a lot of people that know just enough to be dangerous. They understand basic concepts, but lack the experience (or ability) to adapt when things are not what they expect. The house shot tricks these people into thinking they are skilled, but when they hit the flatter patterns, they can't understand what the ball is doing because they've never seen that reaction before. They average 210 at home and go to Nationals (for example) and average 170. You put a bunch of those guys on the same pair at Nationals and all hell breaks loose with the shot.

I'm not picking on anybody with this post. I just described myself. Experience on challenging patterns is critical to growing as a bowler. You can pack so much information into your head, but if you never get the chance to see what happens when you apply that knowledge, the knowledge actually hurts more than it helps. Once a year at Nationals isn't experience because it's been too long for you to remember exactly what you saw last time out. This is why I think USBC has to figure out a way (and I have no idea how to do it) to mandate a sport league being available to anyone that wants to participate in it.

You're right Joe, but this entire thing started because someone ask about where to look to start in shadow. Not how to play the lane, but where to look to start the pattern.

xrayjay · « **Reply #72 on:** July 08, 2014, 01:39:55 PM »

That'll be the day......If USBC starts putting down shots that are not THS for leagues, like the one house I bowled (WTBA patterns - centeral lanes, GU.) as a kid overseas, more and more people will leave the game and more houses will close. Most of those 220 will cry and throw a fit at the front desk too before they leave...

milorafferty · « **Reply #73 on:** July 08, 2014, 01:46:12 PM »

Quote from: xrayjay on July 08, 2014, 01:39:55 PM

That'll be the day......If USBC starts putting down shots that are not THS for leagues, like the one house I bowled (WTBA patterns - centeral lanes, GU.) as a kid overseas, more and more people will leave the game and more houses will close. Most of those 220 will cry and throw a fit at the front desk too before they leave...

Very true, and those customers will leave that house in droves to another house with a shot conducive to them maintaining that average. If that wasn't the case, PBA and sport shot leagues would have a waiting list. As it is, they are hard to find in a lot of places. I have to drive 45 miles each way to bowl my PBA league. I pass no fewer than five houses I would bowl if they offered the more honest conditions.

There is a place for the THS in my opinion. I just wish more bowlers took the sport side of bowling more seriously.

Good Times Good Times · « **Reply #74 on:** July 08, 2014, 01:58:35 PM »

Here's the moral of the story: On sport patterns, just stand left and throw it right. If you can't do that then just quit!

avabob · « **Reply #75 on:** July 08, 2014, 02:00:45 PM »

I am going to tell you something from my own experience that may be interesting about playing different shots. Many years ago I said some decent luck in the ABC masters on several occasions. One of the reasons I liked the Masters was that I felt I had a level playing field, or even a slight advantage over the touring pros during qualifying. The reason is that the ABC Masters pattern was a lot different than what the guys on tour, and their ball reps were use to seeing. In the late 90's it played fairly close to what we call the Chameleon today. You could play multiple angles, but you couldn't get recovery if you tried to create more out angle than the pattern dictated. On tour the guys never got hold area, but there was always swing area if you played them correctly.

As a result I often saw guys who were totally dominating the tour struggle on the Masters pattern. Their ball reps often were not helpful because they didn't have experience watching their guys on this pattern either. In addition the transitions were often different than what they were seeing on tour. My advantage was that I didn't come in with a preconceived notion. The Masters patterns favored a straighter game on fresh, and the tour power players were on the defensive for the first 3 or 4 games. Those who managed to find something deep didn't have any place to move when they transitioned.

Strategies and the game has changed over the past 15 years, but I always found it interesting how quickly many of the pros struggled outside their own comfort zone. Just as an addendum, they would have destroyed me on most of the tour shots because they built their game around something I didn't see very often

Author Topic: Sport Pattern League (Read 16256 times)

MrNattyBoh

Sport Pattern League

milorafferty

Re: Sport Pattern League

avabob

Re: Sport Pattern League

milorafferty

Re: Sport Pattern League

Gizmo823

Re: Sport Pattern League

Gizmo823

Re: Sport Pattern League

milorafferty

Re: Sport Pattern League

Good Times Good Times

Re: Sport Pattern League

Joe Cool

Re: Sport Pattern League

Gizmo823

Re: Sport Pattern League

milorafferty

Re: Sport Pattern League

milorafferty

Re: Sport Pattern League

xrayjay

Re: Sport Pattern League

milorafferty

Re: Sport Pattern League

Good Times Good Times

Re: Sport Pattern League

avabob

Re: Sport Pattern League