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Author Topic: Sport Pattern League  (Read 16259 times)

MrNattyBoh

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Sport Pattern League
« on: May 22, 2014, 08:57:29 AM »
Well I got my first taste of a sport pattern league this week! Boy do i need some work....lol....shot 155-144-192. NOT GOOD! however, i think with some practice and better concentration I think I can pull off 190 avg, well, that's my goal anyway. My first goal was to shoot 500 the first week and I failed. Spare shooting sucked until the last game and finding the pocket the first two games was like finding a needle in a haystack........we get to practice on the pattern the night before so i will definitely be taking advantage of that! I am looking forward to the challenge and sharpening my game and going to the next level! anyone else bowling sport pattern league for the first time this year?

 

Joe Cool

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Re: Sport Pattern League
« Reply #76 on: July 08, 2014, 02:03:12 PM »
I'm not looking for every league to be a sport league.  One per week per association with more than (x) number of bowlers is fine.  I have no interest in killing THS leagues, I just want to see people that want to raise their game having the opportunity to do so.
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xrayjay

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Re: Sport Pattern League
« Reply #77 on: July 08, 2014, 02:23:22 PM »
That'll be the day......If USBC starts putting down shots that are not THS for leagues, like the one house I bowled (WTBA patterns - centeral lanes, GU.) as a kid overseas, more and more people will leave the game and more houses will close. Most of those 220 will cry and throw a fit at the front desk too before they leave...



Very true, and those customers will leave that house in droves to another house with a shot conducive to them maintaining that average. If that wasn't the case, PBA and sport shot leagues would have a waiting list. As it is, they are hard to find in a lot of places. I have to drive 45 miles each way to bowl my PBA league. I pass no fewer than five houses I would bowl if they offered the more honest conditions. 


There is a place for the THS in my opinion. I just wish more bowlers took the sport side of bowling more seriously.

Speaking of waiting list..... that use to be the case just to join a league back in the day lol. Now, I'm getting calls (just had a voicemail 20 mins ago) months before winter league almost begging me join their league.....
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avabob

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Re: Sport Pattern League
« Reply #78 on: July 08, 2014, 02:40:27 PM »
About the same percentage of league bowlers complained about the shot 50 years ago.  They were either too slick, or too dry was the usual complaint, and the scratch bowlers were always the worst.  The felt they had the right to the lanes playing the same very night.  We didn't have graphs or 30K lane machines to put out precisely measured patterns, but anytime somebody bowled bad it was the lane mans fault.

When I look back at how little I knew, even into the 70's,  it amazes me.   

Gizmo823

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Re: Sport Pattern League
« Reply #79 on: July 08, 2014, 03:30:52 PM »
I guess my point is that ball reaction will always tell the truth.  Several months ago I bowled on Dead Man's Curve for the first time, never looked at the graph.  Found the shot inside 5 minutes, proceeded to do very well on it.  We hit that pattern a few weeks ago in the Jr Gold league, where I finally did take a look at the pattern.  Didn't tell me anything I didn't know, didn't help me out in any way, but I did notice it didn't quite play how the sheet said it was supposed to.  The graph isn't completely irrelevant, but I guess it's like filling a bucket with water a cup at a time if you have a hose . . I just don't see the point or the need.  The amount of variables in bowling make it overwhelmingly a feel sport.  People need to be taught the feel supported by information, not the other way around. 

Somebody earlier referenced Wes Malott's system.  He starts in the same place on every pattern, then he moves a bit one direction, a bit more, then goes the opposite direction a few times.  Those shots tells him pretty well all he needs to know.  I would imagine he does the same, but I create a mental lane graph, and most of the time it doesn't match the one on paper.  Obviously it will be similar, but the small details are the most important.  That's why something as seemingly simple as telling someone where to start could be way off.  Lane topography and surface friction can easily turn a pattern completely around. 

For instance, our surface plays drier across the board.  So a shot on paper may look like the best line is outside.  In that case, most of the time the shot ends up being significantly deeper because what looks on paper to be predictable and stable usually ends up being too dry to play, and the oil in the middle that looks too wet to play on paper usually ends up being just about right.

So to circle back around to the original question of where to start?  Start wherever you feel comfortable and adjust from there.  You will always do better playing as close to your A game as possible than trying to play your C game just because that's where the graph said to play.  Look at Norm Duke and Liz Johnson.  They're extremely good at playing off the ditch regardless of the pattern.  They start with where they're comfortable and make small adjustments.  It's important to be versatile, but if you find a pro who doesn't play their A game if at all possible, you're fooling yourself.  But more often than not people will read a graph and spend all of practice and possibly beyond trying to play where it says to, and if it doesn't work, they've just wasted 10 minutes.  If you read the graph, start where it says to, and are able to adjust in a few shots, I'm not sure why you needed the graph in the first place.  Also, just because you happen to find a shot where the graph says it should be doesn't mean there isn't a better one elsewhere that would suit your style more.  Surface friction and topography may make another area wide open. 

All this reduces the importance or usefulness of a graph down to a couple shots at the maximum, because once you're familiar with it, why would you need to look at it again?  But at the same time, it also limits and focuses your brain.  In a sport where you need to make big adjustments on the fly and be confident in them, having your brain tell you, "but the sheet said this won't work," is counterproductive.  A graph will always cause more problems than it will solve.  Might as well give a golfer a graph of a green, won't tell them a thing until they actually hit a few putts. 

I'm assuming you're being sarcastic, but that's the absolute truth.  You think Pete Weber cares what's on the lane graph?  If you know how to bowl you don't need a lane graph.  You think these guys learn anything about the Badger or the Wolf or anything from a lane graph?  I can pretty well guarantee you the best in the world don't care what the graph says, they care what the lane and their ball reaction is telling them.  So what if the graph tells you to play somewhere and the shot doesn't end up being there?  What did people do before lane graphs? 

Well have at it then. I'm sure none of the guys who actually make a living bowling ever look at a lane graph.
So what happens when that sheet isn't there?  In this JR Gold prep league, they're allowing adults to bowl with the kids to simulate some tougher competition, and also to teach them.  They have a little meeting with the kids before the league, show them the graph, talk a little about the shot, and then we go bowl.  The guys running the thing were a little miffed at me at first because I wasn't playing the lanes the way the sheet said they were supposed to be played.  I got several questions of, "Why are you playing inside when the sheet says the line is outside?"  My reply was always, "Because I want to knock the pins down."  Once they started seeing how much higher my scores were than everyone else's, they changed their thinking a bit.  Plus all these shots are going down on 15 year old Anvilane, a couple of the houses at Jr Gold are WOOD.  If you pay any kind of attention to the pattern or the graph down there, you're going to be completely screwed. 

Bottom line, you can have your graphs and your sheets that give you all this information, and I'll just take your money. 
[/quote


Of course Pete Weber doesn't need to see a lane graph. He bowls on the patterns all them time. But if it's a pattern Pete has never seen before, you mean to tell me he doesn't even bother to look at the lane graph? If that's what you are saying, then you are clueless.
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milorafferty

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Re: Sport Pattern League
« Reply #80 on: July 08, 2014, 03:43:01 PM »
But every golf course I have ever played DID give you a description, usually printed on the back of the score card. Not a graph of the green, but at least an overhead view of the hole. And it helps if you know what you are looking for. It's like the pins on the green, if you know the course, the pin can tell you from a distance where the hole is cut. That's good information to have if you know how to use it. Does it take into account cross, head or tailing winds? Of course not, but it's still valuable information for someone who knows how to exploit it.

Here is the question for you naysayers, if the lane graphs are sooooooooo useless, why do they exist?

Personally, I want to see a lane graph. The main things I look for are length of course, total units applied, and number of loads from 2 to 2. That gives me a decent idea of how the pattern was intended to play before everything else modified it.

Then again, I ain't no professional like you guys, so I'll take all the help I can get.
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Gizmo823

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Re: Sport Pattern League
« Reply #81 on: July 08, 2014, 03:55:00 PM »
Points taken, but I'm not really sure why lane graphs exist.  I understand the intent, but the variables render them generally useless.  I'm not saying I completely ignore them, I'm just saying I don't pay much attention to them, it's more of a general interest thing rather than looking for information, or like I said earlier, to get an idea where everybody else is going to play so I can adjust quicker to the transition since we move pairs every game.  But still, that only works because I know our surface.  If the same pattern is down at another house, the transition won't work like that.  If the graph helps you out, great, because it's all about not making ANYTHING cookie cutter, but by and large, graphs are a mirage. 

But every golf course I have ever played DID give you a description, usually printed on the back of the score card. Not a graph of the green, but at least an overhead view of the hole. And it helps if you know what you are looking for. It's like the pins on the green, if you know the course, the pin can tell you from a distance where the hole is cut. That's good information to have if you know how to use it. Does it take into account cross, head or tailing winds? Of course not, but it's still valuable information for someone who knows how to exploit it.

Here is the question for you naysayers, if the lane graphs are sooooooooo useless, why do they exist?

Personally, I want to see a lane graph. The main things I look for are length of course, total units applied, and number of loads from 2 to 2. That gives me a decent idea of how the pattern was intended to play before everything else modified it.

Then again, I ain't no professional like you guys, so I'll take all the help I can get.
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MK

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Re: Sport Pattern League
« Reply #82 on: July 08, 2014, 04:02:56 PM »
I am not a big fan of the graphs but I have found links like the following good to clue me in on what to expect on each sport pattern that I have never bowled on before.    As I have said repeatedly in this post, I use them as a guide to figure out where to throw my first practice ball and then I adjust based on the reaction I see.

http://www.epicbowling.com/pba-patterns/


itsallaboutme

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Re: Sport Pattern League
« Reply #83 on: July 08, 2014, 04:16:41 PM »
So you don't like graphs but you like it when somebody gives a description of where to play.  That's just somebody holding your hand because you can't read the graph and load chart.

MK

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Re: Sport Pattern League
« Reply #84 on: July 08, 2014, 04:26:26 PM »
The link has a helluva lot more content than the graph alone. 

itsallaboutme

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Re: Sport Pattern League
« Reply #85 on: July 08, 2014, 04:36:39 PM »
If you can read and understand the load chart you can write that article.  If you can't read the load chart you read the article. 

All that link does is decode the graph and load chart for those that don't understand what they are looking at.

milorafferty

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Re: Sport Pattern League
« Reply #86 on: July 08, 2014, 04:46:28 PM »
Those descriptions are out of date actually. Viper is much different in the current version than the one listed. The current Viper pattern is 39' and it shows to be 37' on your link.

Scorpion is even more different than your link shows. These days it's 47', not 41'.

Just so you know. :-)
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avabob

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Re: Sport Pattern League
« Reply #87 on: July 08, 2014, 05:41:12 PM »
Graphs may or may not give a lot of useful information.  I can say this.  I have never been hurt by looking at a graph, because I take it for what it is worth.  I do get some help by looking at the buff distance.  Under 40 feet, and I might spend a bit more time trying to find something out.  Over 42, and I will try to find something close to the normal house track.  Most of the time I try to see what my reaction looks like at various lines between 7 and 10, and will look to see what ball gives me the best look.  One thing I do know is that graphs seldom give me a good idea on ball selection.

JustRico

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Re: Sport Pattern League
« Reply #88 on: July 08, 2014, 08:06:38 PM »
I love it...the current version...EXACTLY MY POINT!

So if a 'bowler' doesn't know the difference between a good shot and a bad one other than the outcome - 'I struck therefore it was a good shot'...'knowing' or being told where to start and 10 mins of shadow is going to amount to?
First shot - 3 right of 'target' - 3 off the right
Second shot - 4 left - 5 off the left
What's the next move?

You are apparently much smarter than the rest of us cause you know all the cool names and 'how' they're s'posed to play...CONGRATS

95+% of the bowlers have no clue what a good shot is so YOU keep telling how to play YOUR named 'patterns' and bowlers will NEVER get better

YOU CRACK ME UP
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avabob

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Re: Sport Pattern League
« Reply #89 on: July 09, 2014, 11:08:04 AM »
Experience gained through trail and error, along with studying the game is the formula to get better.  Also it took me a long time to realize this, but there is an innate talent that is not possessed by everyone.  I spent many years patting myself on the back for outworking other guys in terms of practice and learning as keys to any success I had.  In truth I know understand that I have a good build for the game, and a good sense of timing and hand eye coordination.  I also remember when I was 15 years old that I could usually tell from the look of my roll pattern when a ball was going to react good in the pocket.  On the negative side, I underestimated my ability to be versatile and adjust my game to conditions like short oil, causing me to struggle for several years fighting the environment rather than adopting to it. 

JustRico

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Re: Sport Pattern League
« Reply #90 on: July 09, 2014, 02:05:04 PM »
Experience is learning from positive as well as negative results..merely being given the answers doesn't teach you if one does not know how to apply the answers...you can be taught the game but that doesn't mean you know how to play it
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