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Author Topic: Starting Top Weight  (Read 14993 times)

scrub49

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Starting Top Weight
« on: June 17, 2015, 05:09:28 PM »
I was told by my pro shop manger one time that with my slow ball speed that my ending Top weight should be at least around 1 1/4 oz. or more need some input please.

 

kidlost2000

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Re: Starting Top Weight
« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2015, 08:08:24 AM »
Please be sure and watch his other videos and consider the source.

Usbc rules allow 1oz pos or neg side weight,  1oz finger or thumb weight and 3oz top or bottom weight.

3oz of pos side weight in a ball may affect the balls motion but its irrelevant because its not allowed.

Usbc also has a video of a ball with close to 5ozs side weight having 4 motion phases. Skid,  hook going left,  roll,  then hook going right.

The ball also gets damaged during testing due to the excessive side weight.  Why argue over things that aren't legal when the things legal by usbc show not to matter?

I would agree that some of the other videos and ideas from phoenix ball balancing are suspect.

I will say that 3 oz of top weight could be on the left side of the ball after the ball flares as it goes down the lane. (right hander)

If it mattered don't you think Mo would have exploited this already….. With ball manufactures to follow?

I didn't say anything. I just stated the facts.  You were the one that said 3 oz of side weight could influence the ball motion, but it didn't matter because 3 oz of sideweight was illegal.  I was just letting you know that 3 oz of top weight on a ball that flares can become side weight by the time the ball gets down the lane. 



True, imagine having 5oz of top weight and how much the ball would hook. There is a video for that.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ahME4NCEQk
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

JustRico

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Re: Starting Top Weight
« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2015, 07:31:57 PM »
IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE STATICS
They drilled the guts out of the ball
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Aloarjr810

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Re: Starting Top Weight
« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2015, 08:01:58 PM »
If any of you want to see just how Phoenix Ball Balancing lays out those balls

Look at their (400$) Program it looks to be most all based on static weights. The software is based on the old Compu-Balance system software.

theres a free trial of their program,
( I tried it but at first I thought the program won't install, But I found it would install, it just doesn't show in start menu I had to go the install location on the c drive to launch the program)
« Last Edit: June 25, 2015, 08:03:49 PM by Aloarjr810 »
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kidlost2000

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Re: Starting Top Weight
« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2015, 08:14:09 PM »
Pin weight ball is a must have for every bowler................
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

BradleyInIrving

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Re: Starting Top Weight
« Reply #50 on: June 25, 2015, 10:42:11 PM »
Those still believing in static weights......  You asked what would a ball do with 1/2 f and 1/4 pos side.... Well, think of it this way...   Would it react differently if the weight block was shifted and you still ended w/ those static weights??  Of course it would but you still have the ending static weights you wanted.... 

Urethane Game

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Re: Starting Top Weight
« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2015, 08:35:13 AM »
I understand that with today's big cored equipment static weights are not going to make any difference.  With regard to 3 piece balls, I can say with certainty that I could see a difference between a ball drilled zero and one drilled 1/2 finger, 1/4 side.  In the scenario I described earlier, I had 2 Black Angles with those drillings and I could see a difference.  Is it the same effect as putting a fat hole in a ball to change core dynamics? No, but there most certainly was a difference.

I like the way all the young pups on this board think we're all idiots but a big part of science is observation.  I saw what I saw.

tommygn

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Re: Starting Top Weight
« Reply #52 on: June 26, 2015, 08:57:38 AM »
I understand that with today's big cored equipment static weights are not going to make any difference.  With regard to 3 piece balls, I can say with certainty that I could see a difference between a ball drilled zero and one drilled 1/2 finger, 1/4 side.  In the scenario I described earlier, I had 2 Black Angles with those drillings and I could see a difference.  Is it the same effect as putting a fat hole in a ball to change core dynamics? No, but there most certainly was a difference.

I like the way all the young pups on this board think we're all idiots but a big part of science is observation.  I saw what I saw.

I agree,  when used on the proper volume of oil. The reason why people say there isn't a difference, in my opinion, is because there is so much volume of oil compared to when urethane, plastic and rubber where the only choices, that it's hard to conceive of a difference.

I have a thumb weighted positive side,  and finger weighted, no side ice storm, drilled for local plastic ball tourneys, that use very low volume, and they most definitely roll differently. Much, much easier to get the thumb weighted ball to pick up, and roll towards the pocket,  for the strike ball. It makes a difference, when used on the proper volume. The thumb weighted ball also gives me a slightly wider pocket on firm rolls and hits light mixer, where as the finger weighted ball pushes too far.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2015, 09:06:38 AM by tommygn »
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bergman

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Re: Starting Top Weight
« Reply #53 on: June 26, 2015, 11:13:06 AM »
My experience with static weights in the old days when 3 piece cores were the norm was different. In short, I saw very little, if any difference in the roll characteristics
among all the balls I drilled for myself and my customers in those days, irrespective of how they were drilled.  The single most important factor affecting ball performance
then was , as it is today, the coverstock. When Brunswick came out with its "Grabber"
in 1970, its coverstock had a higher coefficient of friction than did the old hard rubber Ebonite Gyros or the Dick Weber Five Star balls.  With the introduction of polyester balls around that same time (such as the Columbia White Dot), friction was kicked up another small notch. Static weight variances only showed their variations
when the ball was rolled EXTREMELY slow--much slower than most bowlers normally
throw--MUCH slower or when balls were illegally  "do-doed" with lead, mercury, rolls of coins, etc. Otherwise static weights had no real effect on ball motion.

Also, balls were harder in those days and lane surfaces were softer in texture when compared with today's much harder lane surfaces. In addition, much less oil volumes were used 40-50 years ago than what is used today. The lane surfaces were the main friction source back then . Today, it's the equipment. Just the opposite.

However the difference in eras, ball (hooking action) is much more extreme in today's environment than in the rubber/plastic/urethane days. Those balls had
much longer, and MUCH shallower hooking motions. They never "jumped" off a spot like they do today. This is why targeting at the arrows (up front) was not a problem back then. On today's sport conditions, awareness of the "breakpoint" some 40 feet  or so away, is critical in determining when and how, the ball reacts --counterintuitive for many of us old timers. In so many ways, we are being forced to re-learn the game by today's rules. Rules mandated by all of the changes that have occurred in bowling's physical environment since that time. But it's a worthy challenge.