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Author Topic: Static weights, how important are they  (Read 8515 times)

Nicanor

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Static weights, how important are they
« on: August 16, 2009, 09:02:52 AM »
I was wondering how important static weights are to ball performance?




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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

 

OddBalls

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Re: Static weights, how important are they
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2009, 01:06:39 PM »
quote:
After reading this 2nd page I think I'm going to take a 25/32" bit and take 3oz positive weight out of the side of my head.  There's no use even trying.....


How deep will that hole be in order for you to be legal?
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triggerman

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Re: Static weights, how important are they
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2009, 01:39:51 PM »
quote:
quote:
NO.. Drill them with 1.5 oz pos and neg side. Then make them legal. Now tell me if the statics have an effect on reaction. The statics dictate where you can place your x-holes to tune the ball. It's all how you look at the question.

Until USBC changes their rule. Which will never happen. Statics matter more than you want to believe.

Beans


This is a non-sensible test to show what happens because in order to get to that 1.5 oz pos or neg side you have to tilt the core in a certain manner therefore causing it to setup differently as it rolls down the lane.  It's not the static weights that cause this its the gyration of the core.  So therefore its not a valid test because its not possible for the numbers of the drilling to match for both layouts.

Edited on 8/17/2009 1:05 PM


according to Big B you can shift the cg or top weight left or right and never ever change  core angle

in a 3-d cad model this is easy to see, the only way to really do that test right is pin above bridge, cg swung out left and right, dont think you can get to 1.5 oz doing it but you can see a 1 oz swing side to side with the pin in the same location and the core oriendtation the same (symetrical cored balls only)
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BeansProShop

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Re: Static weights, how important are they
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2009, 01:44:36 PM »
quote:
quote:
NO.. Drill them with 1.5 oz pos and neg side. Then make them legal. Now tell me if the statics have an effect on reaction. The statics dictate where you can place your x-holes to tune the ball. It's all how you look at the question.

Until USBC changes their rule. Which will never happen. Statics matter more than you want to believe.

Beans


This is a non-sensible test to show what happens because in order to get to that 1.5 oz pos or neg side you have to tilt the core in a certain manner therefore causing it to setup differently as it rolls down the lane.  It's not the static weights that cause this its the gyration of the core.  So therefore its not a valid test because its not possible for the numbers of the drilling to match for both layouts.

Edited on 8/17/2009 1:05 PM


Not true NoseorRI as I have argued that same point but was told by Brunswick guys that the actual change in the core tilt is so insignificant that it still doesn't matter..

I actually agree with you here..

The bottom line is that CG does matter... Static weights do matter. Hole depth and size does matter. Hole placement does matter. Surface matters. Every single thing we are all discussing has an effect on reaction in one way or another. Why is it so hard to admit that it ALL makes a difference some how. Some more significant than others and by a lot.. But it all matters..

Just keep drilling your balls the way you like and tweaking them with CG placements and x-hole placements and surface adjustments and we will all be happy. There is enough knowledge of these things out there that we should not be arguing about it. If a ball manufacturer states something in their drill sheets then who are we to question them???

Beans
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EricThomas

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Re: Static weights, how important are they
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2009, 03:44:46 PM »
The drill sheet in our symmetric balls is a generic sheet that we have used for years....we just never changed it.  At this time it is not intended to change or alter the performance, more or less to keep the ball legal.  This topic has been debated and argued about for some time now.  We arent trying to muddy the waters at all.  You can make your own informed decision.  We feel that static weights can make a very small difference on certain balls.  Now a day can you see it?...probably not.....20 years ago on a pancake urethane i think you could.
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OddBalls

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Re: Static weights, how important are they
« Reply #50 on: August 17, 2009, 03:54:29 PM »
quote:
The drill sheet in our symmetric balls is a generic sheet that we have used for years....we just never changed it.  At this time it is not intended to change or alter the performance, more or less to keep the ball legal.  This topic has been debated and argued about for some time now.  We arent trying to muddy the waters at all.  You can make your own informed decision.  We feel that static weights can make a very small difference on certain balls.  Now a day can you see it?...probably not.....20 years ago on a pancake urethane i think you could.
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We have seen testimonials from a "certain" ball company that is convinced that a 1/4 oz of improper side/bottom/top/finger weight will cause the ball not to react properly.

Static weights matter to the point that they can tell you if you're going to be illegal or not and where a properly placed x-hole can change the reaction shape. However, the voodoo that they do stating that a "certain ball" will come alive with a minute state wieght change is nothing but BS..
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Edited on 8/17/2009 3:55 PM
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EricThomas

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Re: Static weights, how important are they
« Reply #51 on: August 17, 2009, 04:58:06 PM »
Agreed.
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jls

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Re: Static weights, how important are they
« Reply #52 on: August 17, 2009, 05:24:46 PM »
This is real simple to find out...

Simply drill two of the same model ball...Get the specs as close as possible...

Drill both aggressive...

On one, drill a balance hole and bring the ball back to 1/2 oz. SW...

On the other, leave it...

Bowl with both...

Get back to us with the results...

Like which one "clears the heads, turns the corner and kicks out the 10 pin" better...  
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IHFN

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Re: Static weights, how important are they
« Reply #53 on: August 18, 2009, 04:27:51 PM »
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
They say bring it back to 1/2 oz positive because whatever drilling you're looking at is requiring an x-hole.  The use and location of that xhole is to modify the shape of the reaction, not the actual static weight itself.  You can get 1/2oz positive weight with hundereds of thousands of variables considering weighthole locations, sizes, and depths.  Now guess what?  With all of those hundreds of layout variations that will yeild the same ending statics, they will roll differently.  Why?  Because of the location, size, and depth of the x-hole which is going to change the roll of the ball path and make the bal stabilize quicker, later, and affect the flare potential.

Call AMF up for an explaination.  I'm 100% sure they'll tell you the same thing.  

You'd think after 4-6 years of the same thing over and over that some people would be willing to accept a completely logical and proven theory besides the same group of guys on one side of the fence.


But doesn't the static weights dictate where the X-Hole is going to go thus changing ball reaction??

If you have a high CG and want a low hole you will most likely end with too much finger weight. Then you drill the fingers deeper and change the dynamics of the ball again..??

I can see where on a strong MB assymetric ball without the USBC guidelines it may not have an effect. BUT...It doesn't matter what video proof is out there of 3" CG shifts to the right and left creating minimal reaction changes. THEY ARE ILLEGAL and once you add the holes to make them legal the reactions will change.

Ths makes the CG placement/static weights a determining factor in ball reaction..Plain and simple

This is my opinion.Not the opinion of Lane#1 or anyone else. This question is always answered out of context as to CGNOMADDAH...

Beans
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Question...

The static weights tell you IF you need to have some remove, but it doesn't tell you what type of x-hole you need..

In other words, isn't it HOW you take the weight out more important? A larger shallow hole will react differently than a deeper, smaller hole, won't it?


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Yes. I totally agree. But if you end with 1.5 oz of finger and want a low hole for a specific reaction. How do you acheve that??  If CG doesn't matter why do ball companies still sell balls with the pin to CG marked on the box. Even on the strongest MB balls. WHY DOES IT MATTER??

Why don't they just sell balls as 15 lb? All specs in a 15lb ball box with no specs on them??

Beans
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Sigh, they have to mark it so you know whether or not it is legal or illegal according to USBC standards.  The amount that static weights matter on ball reaction is the same amount between smoking a non-filtered cigarette and a non-filtered light cigarette.  Some may like the flavor of the lights, but the end result is the same...
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Gazoo

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Re: Static weights, how important are they
« Reply #54 on: August 19, 2009, 08:24:40 AM »
Depends on your point of view. So they are as important as you need them to be, which is why in the end this is a "who cares" issue.
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