80's urethane ball in today's market? a modern faball ball. also, I was told that Visionary pours their stuff and some cores do look visionary like.

I've seen only one guy use it and he does okay with it if the pattern holds up for him.

Then I heard from others that some of the Genesis stuff they used, they didn't like them.

Anyone here used their urethane or other of their balls?

The new Black Hammer coming out is supposed to be like the old reaction.

I have a Pitch Black and for me it rolls great on our house shot but it sometimes forces me too far left and I lose carry and have to switch to something that gets length and backend

I had two Naturals with different surfaces and one of them did what your PB did. I didn't find the Naturals to be a true dry lane ball that I thought it was. My very low axis tilt doesn't help either. My blue hammer that I just got, seems to go straighter, but it has yet to be used on a dry track surface.

According to Phil C from Radical, all current urethane releases have a small amount of resin in them still.  The new one coming from hammer is supposed to be the first true 100% urethane coverstock and thus has the higher price point from what I would guess is they had to set up a completely clean the production line to remove all the resin from prior production runs in the coverstock mold fill lines.

WHOA. This should be interesting.

The issue with 'urethane' on today's conditions is the oil viscosity is much higher that 25+ yrs ago as well as the lane surfaces are 'harder' so thinking that a ball from then will react similar on today's condition is ludicrous...this is what confuses bowlers when they don't 'work' on what they think they should...

AMEN!

 When they first came out, I couldn't begin to use a NITRO or a POWDER BLUE HAMMER, because they hooked far too much. I played "coast to coast" with a BLACK TURBO!

 Now, I use my old NITRO as a spare ball because it goes that straight on today's conditions and surfaces.

 Bowling has changed, but much more than most want to believe, or admit. Bowling has changed even down to an almost quantum level, and the very physics of why a ball creates friction and "hook" isn't even remotely the same.

 Changed from the mechanical friction of a semi non-porous, durable coverstock, to the chemical friction of a highly porous, oil soaking "softer" coverstock. Changed from an unstable, gyroscopically unbalanced, wobbling sphere to a stable, rotationally dynamic, asymmetrically biased orb of directional momentum that can be scientifically calculated to reach its maximum performance for each individual user.

 Yea, bowling so changed a bit in the last 30+ years.

I have The Judge urethane ball.

It needs a dry lane with little oil.

On any modern house shot with oil the ball can become little more than a spare ball.

But when the lane has little to no oil, this ball is a beast!

I have never had a ball hit harder for me when the conditions are right.

But if the ball gets any oil on it, the oil saturates the ball and makes it a deep shiny black and then the ball will no longer grab.

Wiping the ball will not help, as the oil gets trapped in the deep grooves of the ball. Remember this ball is 320 wet sand!

This ball depends entirely on "mechanical friction", the grooves being able to "dig in". But if oil gets in those grooves then it is done.

I love the ball when it is dry, but when there is some oil, then it will work for three throws and then it is done.

And I roll the ball very slow, and I am a Full Roller with a low rev rate and 90 degree axis rotation.

Usually I can get almost any ball to grab, even plastic.

What I have found that is weird is, I have a 1970's rubber ball, polished. When there is oil on the lane and the Judge starts to lose its reaction, the rubber ball will not lose its reaction.

The Judge gets saturated with oil in the grooves, but the oil on the rubber ball stays on the surface and can just be wiped off and the ball is dry again.

The rubber ball can hit hard and carry on oily conditions the Judge cannot grab on.

I assume this is because the Judge depends on the pure "mechanical friction" of the grooves while the rubber ball is pure "chemical friction" of the smooth polished rubber.

I am wondering if I took the grit of the Judge up to 1000 grit or higher if it would actually do better on modern conditions? Perhaps the oil would not get trapped in the ball.

I have an original 1980's AMF Angle Plus urethane ball and this ball does better on modern conditions than the Judge does. The AMF is more resistant to oil saturation, though even it can get wet and lose its reaction too, but it takes much longer and much more oil.

In case you want a comparison look, here are some videos. One of me using the Judge on very light oil on a very abrasive lane surface, then the AMF on the same surface and finally one of me using my rubber ball on medium oil on a much faster Anvilane surface.

Look at the difference in how the balls react to the lanes:

The Judge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCn0z6SAQGE

The AMF Angle Plus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSfKv_-od7s

The Rubber Ball
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYdfF4m_Kxs


Follow up: I recently took the Judge down to 180 grit and this made a huge difference on modern house shots for me. Now the ball doesn't seem to lose all its energy once it gets wet. As it gets wet it still does weaken until it reaches a state of equilibrium, but that state is still such that the ball grips and carries like a truck! But what's great is the ball is still smooth, straight and controllable, it does not jump or over hook. Control and power are now in perfect combination.

I actually bought the ADRENALINE GOLD RUSH just cause i liked the idea of a limited edition ball that no one else would have and its the ball i use the most on my tuesday travel league which bowls in 8 different houses. it kills the hshot. the ball is very predictable and never overreacts. GREAT BALL!

Several items after reading this post...

I had heard all of the new urethanes are a blend to have some performance on todays slick oils!  That sounds good to me.  I see numbers from Storm like U15 and stuff, I always fee this means 15% reactive or some sort of thing!

Anyone already have an opinion on this new offering from Brunswick?
http://www.bowlwithbrunswick.com/balls/detail/fanatic-btu/

On Rubber as noted in a video above.  After once bowling in a center that I thought put out oil to 15 feet like once a  week on the left.  I discovered rubber for the weekends and man could I score!  Once the oil was put down for league forget it!  This on a shot where my reactives actually jumped up in the air on weekends upon hitting the dry at 15 feet and landed sideways 3 inches to the right at 15.2 feet!  Smoothly progressing to the gutter at 35 feet on the right!

A beautiful center and righty palace!

On Valentino's and different solutions from them!  I think I'll place a separate post!

Regards,

Luckylefty