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Author Topic: Stopping Team Lane Carving with Sanded balls/super balls  (Read 17774 times)

txbowler

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Stopping Team Lane Carving with Sanded balls/super balls
« on: July 29, 2013, 04:25:32 PM »
Isn't it possible that if USBC or lane maintenance really wanted to stop teams/bowlers from blowing open patterns, they could simply increase the oil volumes to an extreme amount?

If you put 300 units on a lane, doesn't that in essence make it impossible to blow open in a 3 game set?

 

Aloarjr810

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Re: Stopping Team Lane Carving with Sanded balls/super balls
« Reply #46 on: July 30, 2013, 07:12:36 PM »
Another question?

I do not know of a rule that prohibits a bowler from taking a towel can removing lane conditioner from portions of the lane.

While this would probably be considered unethical, would it be illegal?

Let's see these might cover removing lane oil with a towel :

c. Any stripping (cleaning) of dressing from the lanes must be uniform from edge
board to edge board and at least from the headpin to the distance to which
dressing has been applied.

2. The lane surfaces shall not be altered or conditioned to create a ball path or otherwise
affect the course of the ball or pinfall by use of abrasives, dressings or any other
materials or methods.
(For example, and without intending any limitation of the rule,
the resurfaces, owner, manager and maintenance personnel are specifically prohibited
from creating grooves or tracks in the lane to form a continuous ball path even through
within allowable tolerances.)

E. Penalty for Noncompliance
Anyone who attempts or directs another to alter lanes to create a ball path or otherwise affect
the course of the ball or pinfall, or permits any of the foregoing to occur, is liable for suspension
of membership. A nonmember found to have taken or permitted such actions may be denied
membership until his/her application is approved by USBC Headquarter.

Aloarjr810
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Joe Cool

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Re: Stopping Team Lane Carving with Sanded balls/super balls
« Reply #47 on: July 30, 2013, 08:16:35 PM »
Pinbuster,
   Cause too many people with the mentality of Joe Cool whined and complained. It should be an "open" tournament, open to any current member of the USBC regardless of their PBA status.

See, you have me all wrong.  I'm all for anybody participating.  I'm not telling you what I want, I'm telling you what the average bowler wants.
Hit the pocket and hope for the best

batbowler

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Re: Stopping Team Lane Carving with Sanded balls/super balls
« Reply #48 on: July 30, 2013, 10:25:21 PM »
Here's a link to the pattern used this year in Team Event: http://www.kegel.net/V3/PatternLibraryPattern.aspx?ID=798
Doubles/Singles used a 39' pattern and the team event was 41'.
The ratio was around 2-1/2 to 1 compared to house shots that are more like 7 to 1.
Here's the link for Doubles/Singles for this year: http://www.kegel.net/V3/PatternLibraryPattern.aspx?ID=799
« Last Edit: July 30, 2013, 10:27:20 PM by batbowler »
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Joe Cool

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Re: Stopping Team Lane Carving with Sanded balls/super balls
« Reply #49 on: July 30, 2013, 10:43:03 PM »
Joe Cool-

What would make the USBC Open Championship more fair than it is now?  Open being the key word. 

It's bad enough there is a classified division and they restrict the top 50 and winners from the PBA.  Open Championship.  It should be any member can pay the entry and come shoe up.  If you can't compete against the best, stay home.

There is fresh oil every squad.  You are no longer at the mercy of the people bowling before you.  This is as good as it gets short of everyone bowling at the same time.



Stay home.  Lets see how long it lasts if people actually take the smart advice and lets see how quickly people like you start begging them to come back.
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mainzer

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Re: Stopping Team Lane Carving with Sanded balls/super balls
« Reply #50 on: July 31, 2013, 12:17:35 AM »
Why do the guys that don't want to open a lane up want to screw everyone else on the pair?

Why make a difficult shot harder? I better not hear anyone whine about tough conditions if you are not willing to do something relatively simple to make the condition easier.

Winning teams open up the lanes, teams that don't shot 2500. Isn't it obvious?
"No one runs...from the conquerer "

MainzerPower

itsallaboutme

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Re: Stopping Team Lane Carving with Sanded balls/super balls
« Reply #51 on: July 31, 2013, 06:45:47 AM »
Joe Cool-

I know how talented the guys that win are.  I could hang with them 10 years ago.  I stay home now.  I know my place.

I went to nationals for 18 years.  I can say I never went for the money.  There would still be a very large turnout even if there were no prize money.  I't the only place you can win an Eagle.

Joe Cool

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Re: Stopping Team Lane Carving with Sanded balls/super balls
« Reply #52 on: July 31, 2013, 10:05:16 AM »
Joe Cool-

I know how talented the guys that win are.  I could hang with them 10 years ago.  I stay home now.  I know my place.

I went to nationals for 18 years.  I can say I never went for the money.  There would still be a very large turnout even if there were no prize money.  I't the only place you can win an Eagle.

If everybody that didn't have a chance to win an Eagle stayed home, there'd be nowhere to win an Eagle.

That's all I'm getting at.  You can't just make rules considering one group when everyone is needed for the tourney to exist much less be as successful financially as USBC needs it to be.  The tourney isn't what it used to be.  We need to get past that and start looking at the entire picture, not just the top of it.
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Joe Cool

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Re: Stopping Team Lane Carving with Sanded balls/super balls
« Reply #53 on: July 31, 2013, 10:10:03 AM »
Why do the guys that don't want to open a lane up want to screw everyone else on the pair?

Why make a difficult shot harder? I better not hear anyone whine about tough conditions if you are not willing to do something relatively simple to make the condition easier.

Winning teams open up the lanes, teams that don't shot 2500. Isn't it obvious?

So being the better shotmaker is not the key...10 people working together to create an easier shot is?  I know the answer, I just want to hear someone actually say it.  I know, I know, you need to be a shotmaker to open up the lanes properly.  I just want it simplified down to the lowest common denominator. 

You have zero chance of winning the team event Eagle without 10 people working together (or 5 people with no team bowling against them).  Say it. 

Hit the pocket and hope for the best

blesseddad

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Re: Stopping Team Lane Carving with Sanded balls/super balls
« Reply #54 on: July 31, 2013, 10:15:18 AM »
Why do the guys that don't want to open a lane up want to screw everyone else on the pair?

Why make a difficult shot harder? I better not hear anyone whine about tough conditions if you are not willing to do something relatively simple to make the condition easier.

Winning teams open up the lanes, teams that don't shot 2500. Isn't it obvious?

+1

Either you can, or you complain.
What group do you belong to?

Juggernaut

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Re: Stopping Team Lane Carving with Sanded balls/super balls
« Reply #55 on: July 31, 2013, 10:16:17 AM »
Question:
 WHY does everyone seem to think bowling should be made "fair"?

 Bowling is a sport/game based on ones physical abilities to compete, correct?

 Since there are MILLIONS of bowlers, each with his or her own ability level, how do you propose to make it "fair" for everyone?


Question:
 Can you name me ANYTHING in life that is truly "fair"?

  The answer is NO, you cannot. From the simplest thing, to the most complex, there will ALWAYS be those who have greater innate abilities towards an end than others will have.

 Usain Bolt is the fastest, Zydrunas Savickas is the strongest. Others have trained just as long, and just as hard, yet these two stand out because of their natural abilities.

 ANY attempt to make ANYTHING "fair" is to ARTIFICIALLY change either the requirements, or the conditions of, said activity.


 Lane "carving" as it is called, is a by product of the modern game and the modern equipment. Modern equipment is a by product of people wanting something they didn't learn/earn.


 I could go on this subject for a long time, but I won't. Just suffice it to say that there is NO WAY to ever make a sport "fair", and ANY attempt at doing so is just an exercise in futility.

 YOU CANNOT MAKE ANYTHING "FAIR"!  Please stop trying.
Learn to laugh, and love, and smile, cause we’re only here for a little while.

blesseddad

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Re: Stopping Team Lane Carving with Sanded balls/super balls
« Reply #56 on: July 31, 2013, 10:27:15 AM »
This topic line reminds me why I do not bowl Nationals any longer. I shot my fair share of scores that I was proud of, but I am not versatile nor rich enough to set myself up to cover 5 boards or 50 boards with equipment changes and the like. My best zone is between 5 and 15 and sadly, I do not have the time, the money or the interest to try to develop my game further that that.

I have said for years that I realize my limitations within the realm of the Nationals and the game it requires, and I will not go again unless I am the worst guy on the team. I hated the last few years, where I go with 9 others and get told "We are attacking them this way" and out bowl everyone because I end up the only one who can play them to score. 


Joe Cool

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Re: Stopping Team Lane Carving with Sanded balls/super balls
« Reply #57 on: July 31, 2013, 10:27:53 AM »
Question:
 WHY does everyone seem to think bowling should be made "fair"?

 Bowling is a sport/game based on ones physical abilities to compete, correct?

 Since there are MILLIONS of bowlers, each with his or her own ability level, how do you propose to make it "fair" for everyone?


Question:
 Can you name me ANYTHING in life that is truly "fair"?

  The answer is NO, you cannot. From the simplest thing, to the most complex, there will ALWAYS be those who have greater innate abilities towards an end than others will have.

 Usain Bolt is the fastest, Zydrunas Savickas is the strongest. Others have trained just as long, and just as hard, yet these two stand out because of their natural abilities.

 ANY attempt to make ANYTHING "fair" is to ARTIFICIALLY change either the requirements, or the conditions of, said activity.


 Lane "carving" as it is called, is a by product of the modern game and the modern equipment. Modern equipment is a by product of people wanting something they didn't learn/earn.


 I could go on this subject for a long time, but I won't. Just suffice it to say that there is NO WAY to ever make a sport "fair", and ANY attempt at doing so is just an exercise in futility.

 YOU CANNOT MAKE ANYTHING "FAIR"!  Please stop trying.

Sure.  Tell that to the people that wanted fresh oil on all squads.  Tell that to the people mad that the team a couple years ago did so well bowling unopposed.  Make sure you tell all of the 180 - 200 bowlers that it's just unfortunate that they have no chance at anything more than a meal money check because it's just not supposed to be fair.

Fair is a word people use when it works in their favor.  Or when it doesn't.  Either way, it's just a point of view.
Hit the pocket and hope for the best

Dogtown

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Re: Stopping Team Lane Carving with Sanded balls/super balls
« Reply #58 on: July 31, 2013, 10:30:56 AM »
+100 to Juggernaut.

No matter what you do to the lanes, the bowler(s) who forms a strategy puts in the hours and practice will always come home with the Eagle, as they should. 

Maybe the USBC should give out participation eagles to all the "average bowlers" who just show up and think they should win. 

Joe Cool

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Re: Stopping Team Lane Carving with Sanded balls/super balls
« Reply #59 on: July 31, 2013, 10:36:05 AM »
+100 to Juggernaut.

No matter what you do to the lanes, the bowler(s) who forms a strategy puts in the hours and practice will always come home with the Eagle, as they should. 

Maybe the USBC should give out participation eagles to all the "average bowlers" who just show up and think they should win. 


You, like most "elite" bowlers completely miss the point.  Nobody is asking for average bowlers to be able to win.  Well, nobody that I've seen.  The biggest complaint I've seen is that the 180 - 200 bowler has little to no chance of even getting a small check in return for their $185 entry fee.  They don't want to win.  They know they can't win.  What they want is a chance to be rewarded for performing well compared to people of their skill level.  Their skill level isn't the guys winning the Eagle.  Why they have to compete against them is a mystery.  Well, not really.  Follow the money...

I am not a 180 - 200 bowler in case someone assumes this is self-serving.
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blesseddad

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Re: Stopping Team Lane Carving with Sanded balls/super balls
« Reply #60 on: July 31, 2013, 10:38:52 AM »
The fairness angle is absolute BS as well. What's next? We all get to Nationals, where we all drill the same ball with the same layout and the same cover? But after that, what will be next?

He has more revs than me...NOT FAIR
He has more ball speed than me...NOT FAIR
He can split hairs at his lay down and I could not hit a dinner plate from 22 feet away...NOT FAIR
He misses spares once a decade and I can't pick up the 5 pin...NOT FAIR
He is a morning person and I only bowl good at night...NOT FAIR

Fair? Really?

Just shut up and bowl...If Nationals is unfair to you, go back home to your THS and leave the tournament bowling to those who understand it.

Or you can keep bowling Nationals and just accept your position as a PFB...

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