Joe Cool,

The better bowler(s) should win the majority of the time.  If you are 180-200 average bowler, you are NOT the better bowler, so your chances of winning are going to be a lot less.  As they should be.

Name another sport where the "average" player has an equal advantage as the advanced player?  That doesn't make sence.

The "nothing is fair" rallying cry will stick around until the top bowlers want to change something else, then suddenly "fair" will be important that one time; then it will be back to "life isn't fair" for the rallying cry.

Quote from: Dogtown on July 31, 2013, 10:30:56 AM

+100 to Juggernaut.

No matter what you do to the lanes, the bowler(s) who forms a strategy puts in the hours and practice will always come home with the Eagle, as they should. 

Maybe the USBC should give out participation eagles to all the "average bowlers" who just show up and think they should win. 

You, like most "elite" bowlers completely miss the point.  Nobody is asking for average bowlers to be able to win.  Well, nobody that I've seen.  The biggest complaint I've seen is that the 180 - 200 bowler has little to no chance of even getting a small check in return for their $185 entry fee.  They don't want to win.  They know they can't win.  What they want is a chance to be rewarded for performing well compared to people of their skill level.  Their skill level isn't the guys winning the Eagle.  Why they have to compete against them is a mystery.  Well, not really.  Follow the money...

I am not a 180 - 200 bowler in case someone assumes this is self-serving.

Rewarded for performing well compared to people of their skill level?

So now a bowler is being encouraged to bag all year to get myself to 180-200, then go shoot 2150 at Nationals so they can rake? What would the rest of his skill level have to say then?

How many damn divisions would we need to make you happy?

Still would never make it fair, BTW...

Only in bowling on a wall does someone of less skill have a chance.

It's the USBC Open Championship.  180's sign up knowing what they are getting into.  If they want fair they will stay home and bowl the Thursday Mixers.  Most bowlers have no chance to cash, never mind win.  But they go anyway. 

The main reason entries are on the decline is Reno has worn out it's welcome.  People will accept it every 3 years, but 3 of 4 and next year 4 of 5, is a bit much.

Okay, so we are going to bury our heads in the sand because someone is going to game the system?  People are gaming the system anyway.  It's happening, and it's real.  It's widespread. 

I don't know that more divisions is the answer...not in the way you're thinking at least.  I don't know what the answer is or I'd just lay it out.  I'm trying to get some honest discussion instead of bickering back and forth.  Maybe it's another division.  Maybe it's just pulling out the Eagle competitors and opening that group up to anyone (including PBA).  I don't know.

Here's what I do know...if we keep doing what we're doing, we all end up losing.  So instead of fighting for a broken system because it favors you, why not come up with ways to improve the system to help others.

In my opinion, the top tier talent of the open have a yearly ATM machine that gives them free money (brackets).

99% of them will not do anything that takes that ATM machine away or lowers the amount it pays.  I can't blame them.

But they will gladly fight for anything that will aid in helping them adding to the amount the ATM pays.  Fresh oil for minors made it equal starting for all.  No one had an advantage of a good team setting them up ahead of them vs a classified team shim wrecking a minors pair costing thousands in brackets.

Brackets has become the motivation for the majority of "non eagle" competitors in the open.  They know they are not at the level of the top teams unless they catch lightning in a bottle.  But they have several top tier bowlers that can make several thousand dollars over 2 days.  And they are hoping that when they walk into the squad room, they don't recognize anyone vs walking into the squad room and seeing Team USA support or Riggs group ready to bowl.

Because then you know, getting money from that ATM, just got a little tougher.

 


Here's what I do know...if we keep doing what we're doing, we all end up losing.  So instead of fighting for a broken system because it favors you, why not come up with ways to improve the system to help others.

Entries peaked in 2009 and it's been in Reno 3/4 since then.  Considering there have been 110 tournaments I don't consider that a long time.

Think bigger picture, not blips on the radar.  Take out Vegas.  Take out when people actually liked going to Reno.  I guess you're not going to believe anything until El Paso.  People see what they want to see and forget how many times the extended registration or offered deals to locals to get the number to where it was...

I skipped several pages, as it was all the same thing being said over and over. the TL;DR I got from the first page and a half was this.

Random Superstar Bowler (RSB for short) that lives in the middle of alaska has a DISadvantage at USBC Open because the 4 other Joe Schmo Bowlers that come with him do not have the ability to throw sanded bowling balls down a lane to attempt to break it down favorably (or as favorably as 10 Superstar Bowlers from Dallas TX). The solution to make it (more) fair by creating a pattern that does not break down.

I did not read enough to see if this point has been made, but the groups of superstar bowlers are not going to win just because they are smart enough to try and use a strategy to break down a lane together, but because they are GOOD enough to repeat shots in the right area often enough with the right ball motion to strike. There are plenty of cases where you can find a ball, release, alignment that gives you room to make mistakes and still get to the pocket, but this may not always be the best line to play to have the best chance to carry when you do hit the pocket.

In a world with transition, the 10 superstar bowlers spend a good 7 minutes of practice throwing shots that are not on their intended line, but are just to break down the pattern. They spend maybe their last 2 shots of practice actually getting lined up. Even here, the spot they choose to break down is a compromise of what is best for the majority of the team. Team members having different (yet just as good) games involving different speeds, rev rates, axis rotations than the majority, may not be as lined up, but you do it for the good of the team, and even then its a guessing game. They may play completely differently than you saw in practice, and you may not have the right balls and surfaces in your bag to play where you broke them down.

In a world with no transition, each superstar bowler gets to spend the entire 10 minutes of practice finding the line that will let them strike the most. They are gonna hit that line more than any other bowlers in the building. Say they throw one a little off line, it goes high, and they 4 pin. There's nothing at this point keeping them from trying a different line, ball, etc that will allow them to trip the 4 on that same tugged shot. So by the end of practice, these superstar bowlers will be lined up in spots that suit their individual games to allow them to strike a ton.

My question is do you want to have to bowl against the same caliber of bowlers that are in the running every year where they do not have to move or change anything for 9 games? Figure it out once and you're set for the weekend, turn the brain off, and cruise. I'd rather we both have to move and adjust to transition than neither of us.